The far right's un-American values

**jams** · September-05-09, 09:37 PM

I had to debate right-wing extremist Terry Jeffrey of Human Events on the controversy over President Obama's back-to-school address on "Hardball" Friday afternoon. What a big steaming pile of misunderstanding, prejudice and outright lies.

Read the rest:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/walsh/

ccbatson · September-05-09, 11:42 PM

It is the context that makes Obama's speech suspicious, not the content. He is a radical activist who has repeatedly expressed a penchant for militant youth movements [[as in the Hitler youth) complete with uniforms and chanting marches. In this context, is it wise to give him an audience with YOUR children?

**gazhekwe** · September-06-09, 07:39 AM

Funny, I listen all the time and have never heard Obama say anything like this. [M]ilitant youth movements [[as in the Hitler youth) complete with uniforms and chanting marches [are what I want for American youth]

Stosh · September-06-09, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

It is the context that makes Obama's speech suspicious, not the content. He is a radical activist who has repeatedly expressed a penchant for militant youth movements [[as in the Hitler youth) complete with uniforms and chanting marches. In this context, is it wise to give him an audience with YOUR children?

Sounds like someone's right in lockstep with everyone else. Save yourself the trouble, we've already heard it.

Lorax · September-06-09, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

It is the context that makes Obama's speech suspicious, not the content. He is a radical activist who has repeatedly expressed a penchant for militant youth movements [[as in the Hitler youth) complete with uniforms and chanting marches. In this context, is it wise to give him an audience with YOUR children?

LOL!!!

More tin foil mad hattery from the fascist right.

I guess FDR would have been considered the same with his CCC [[Civilian Conservation Corps) which taught a generation of youth [[and some adults) to appreciate their nation, adding to the success of the WPA in rebuilding America's infrastructure, parks, monuments during the depression.

By your metric, the 4H clubs and the Boy Scouts/Girl Scouts are probably the new marching "Brown Shirts" you're so terrified of.

Watch out for those GS cookies, Tush's FDA allowed pot into the batter mix, so you may be in danger of mellowing out.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**jams** · September-06-09, 07:15 PM

Yeppers, better watch out for those matching t-shirts, probably a cabal of socialist youth, while cleaning yards and picking up trash, are determining the best placements for the barricades for the Revolution to come.

Got to watch out for altruists, it would be shame to waste people's good intentions.

**oladub** · September-06-09, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by jams

Yeppers, better watch out for those matching t-shirts, probably a cabal of socialist youth, while cleaning yards and picking up trash, are determining the best placements for the barricades for the Revolution to come.
.

To each his own although I doubt that barricades and revolution are part of the deal. City Year is voluntary like scouting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFfiXHcUdYQ

On the other hand, Rahm Emmanuel has been proposing something like three months of mandatory youth service. Perhaps the volunteer City Year program is a prototype to work some of the bugs out.
.Asked if the [[civilian youth) training would be military style, with people wearing uniforms, Emanuel stated, "If you're worried about are you going to have to do 50 jumping jacks the answer is yes," adding that the service could be done through state national guard.

**Slipkid** · September-06-09, 10:42 PM

I'll stick my neck out here....I don't know the age of most of the posts on this list, but with all the excitement about JFK, there were never t-shirts or posters of him that I can recall, even after his death. Same with FDR. The ones with Obama's picture remind me of a banana republic, communist or fascist countries. In the end I hope it's for the best, but it's disturbing when I see such intolerance of opinion [[not to be confused with acceptance) on either side as I have read on this thread.

Lorax · September-06-09, 10:45 PM

Might whip some of these fat, dumb and lazy video game players into shape.

Sounds like a great idea to me. Most nations require national service in some form- nothing wrong with learning one's role in the total scheme of society at a young age. The CCC under FDR was a great success, and is a model of what good can come from conscription to humanitarian/civilian needs.

ccbatson · September-06-09, 11:04 PM

Do mainstream liberals not know that a militant youth movement is a key and central element of a radical liberal fascist agenda?

Lorax · September-06-09, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Do mainstream liberals not know that a militant youth movement is a key and central element of a radical liberal fascist agenda?

Do reactionary, far right fundamentalist freak job Rethuglicans know that a militant youth movement is consistent with the fascism of Mussolini and Hitler, both far right corporate fascists?

ccbatson · September-06-09, 11:39 PM

Yes...thank you, I know that fact. I also know that Hitler and Mussolini were collectivist/statists which means they are socialists [[and possibly corporate socialists). Hitler's position as head of the "National Socialist Party" should have tipped you off.

Lorax · September-06-09, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Yes...thank you, I know that fact. I also know that Hitler and Mussolini were collectivist/statists which means they are socialists [[and possibly corporate socialists). Hitler's position as head of the "National Socialist Party" should have tipped you off.

Still bogged down by words, Batts.

Socialist in the Nazi sense of the word was used much as "compassionate conservativism" was used by the Bush Crime Family.

Good propaganda to lull one into believing the lie, but presenting quite a different face as time goes on.

ccbatson · September-06-09, 11:45 PM

SIgh...Hitler didn't "control the means of production"? If he did [[and , yes, he did), that, my friend, is the definition of socialism.

Lorax · September-06-09, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

SIgh...Hitler didn't "control the means of production"? If he did [[and , yes, he did), that, my friend, is the definition of socialism.

No, he didn't.

Since his "means of production" involved the Bush Crime Family's involvement in Brown Brothers Harriman, and the Rothchild banking family, as well as the Thurn und Taxis family of Switzerland. Why do you think Switzerland was allowed to stay neutral? They were providing the financing and corporate machinery to drive the Nazi machine.

ccbatson · September-06-09, 11:53 PM

A bank is not a means of production Lorax.

**oladub** · September-06-09, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by Lorax

Might whip some of these fat, dumb and lazy video game players into shape.

Sounds like a great idea to me. Most nations require national service in some form- nothing wrong with learning one's role in the total scheme of society at a young age. The CCC under FDR was a great success, and is a model of what good can come from conscription to humanitarian/civilian needs.

Unlike countries that require conscription, we have a Constitution which specifically forbids involuntary servitude. If anyone wants to get "fat, dum, and lazy' playing video games, that is their right. I hope that, in turn, they will respect our chosen pursuits of happiness. If you think boot camps of conscriptees is a good way of learning one's role, imagine how instructive gulags would be.

FDR's CCC was voluntary. Paying taxes to support it was not.

Lorax · September-07-09, 12:00 AM

But the corporations Hitler used to carry out his military build up, and further the ideology did. Guess you never heard of Schindler or his famous list?

Lorax · September-07-09, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by oladub

Unlike countries that require conscription, we have a Constitution which specifically forbids involuntary servitude. If anyone wants to get "fat, dum, and lazy' playing video games, that is their right. I hope that, in turn, they will respect our chosen pursuits of happiness. If you think boot camps of conscriptees is a good way of learning one's role, imagine how instructive gulags would be.

FDR's CCC was voluntary. Paying taxes to support it was not.

Like I said, I am a socialist, and think mandatory service is a good thing, and I don't mean military service.

If our Constitution forbids "involuntary servitude" then what do you call the draft? Or selective service? We have had such programs which were not voluntary, and continue to do so. Grow up.

**oladub** · September-07-09, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by Lorax

Like I said, I am a socialist, and think mandatory service is a good thing, and I don't mean military service.

If our Constitution forbids "involuntary servitude" then what do you call the draft? Or selective service? We have had such programs which were not voluntary, and continue to do so. Grow up.

It says "shall not" not "if". It says that "involuntary servitute" "shall" not "exist" within the United States.

Thank you for establishing that in socialism, at least your vision of socialism, dictatorial fiat overrides individual liberty and the Constitution. I call the draft 'involuntary servitude' for anyone serving involuntarily based on the dictionary meanings of 'involuntary' and 'service'. Once again, you are revealing your inner Reich. In post #9, you wanted to have the government start whipping people into shape. Observing the Constitution is a better option than giving you the power to wave your magic wand at anyone you find offensive. Among other things, the Constitution restrains would be tyrants.

**Detroitej72** · September-07-09, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

SIgh...Hitler didn't "control the means of production"? If he did [[and , yes, he did), that, my friend, is the definition of socialism.

So, by your definition, all the royal families that used to control Europe, and the means of production, must have been liberal socialists, correct?

Lorax · September-07-09, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

It says "shall not" not "if". It says that "involuntary servitute" "shall" not "exist" within the United States.

Thank you for establishing that in socialism, at least your vision of socialism, dictatorial fiat overrides individual liberty and the Constitution. I call the draft 'involuntary servitude' for anyone serving involuntarily based on the dictionary meanings of 'involuntary' and 'service'. Once again, you are revealing your inner Reich. In post #9, you wanted to have the government start whipping people into shape. Observing the Constitution is a better option than giving you the power to wave your magic wand at anyone you find offensive. Among other things, the Constitution restrains would be tyrants.

Again, you either choose to ignore what was posted, or willfully choose to contradict what is fact.

What about "the draft" is not involuntary servitude? I don't agree with the draft, never did, and I said as much in my post, which you either fail to understand, or just didn't read.

My "inner Reich?" LOL!!!!

Try George Tush and his "inner Reich" using the National Guard to fill in when the military couldn't recruit enough warm bodies to volunatrily walk into the meat grinder in Iraq and Afghanistan?

I suppose you supported that illegal move, sending reservists into harm's way for an illegal war for oil.

There is nothing unconstitutional about the Civilian Conservation Corps, or the Peace Corps, or the Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, etc.

And there is nothing wrong with mandating a year or two of service from our youth with regard to a peacetime organization such as the CCC or the Peace Corps. Won't hurt them one bit. Maybe they'll learn what it's like to not be selfish for once in their lives before becoming adults.

UFO · September-07-09, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

SIgh...Hitler didn't "control the means of production"? If he did [[and , yes, he did), that, my friend, is the definition of socialism.

Actually, Our republic is and has pretty much always been a socialistic democracy which needs to be expanded just a tad to help those poor and disenfranchised because they are being abused.

Nothing wrong with a bit of socialism since we already live this way in the form of welfare, medicaid, wic, ssi, disability etc,,I just dont want my life ran by others is all

There is enough intrusion into the lives of the poor by those with the power

Yes Hitler was a socialist, but he was an evil one at that. Not all of them are Hitlers equals.

Socialism aint that bad you have been living it all your life CC

When you think about it socialism is more American than capitalism in terms of values.
This nation being founded on christian principles and values being that to help the poor not get all that you can and screw the rest.

Helping those in need is more American tha anyone of us could ever imagine.

**oladub** · September-07-09, 06:44 PM

I'll stick with what I previously wrote. So far the reasons you have given for violating the 13th Amendment clause forbidding involuntary servitude include-

-"Might whip some of these fat, dumb and lazy video game players into shape"
-"Maybe they'll learn what it's like to not be selfish for once in their lives before becoming adults"

It sounds like you are into character building - sort of like Sheriff Joe Arpaio. This is getting fun. Can you think of any other individual character or physical faults that can be corrected with some mandatory government involuntary servitude program?

**jiminnm** · September-07-09, 06:45 PM

oladub, the US Supreme Court determined that the draft was not involuntarily servitude. It's been a while since I read the case, but I think they stated that national defense and the need to raise and mantain a military as described in the constitution was either more important than the the 13th amendment and/or was not the form of servitude encompassed by the amendment. As I recollect, the basis for their decision was a bit sketchy and who knows what might be determined today [[after 30 years without a draft).