COVID-19 concerns force shutdowns of Transit Windsor, playgrounds

[davewindsor]

Good job that the city has taken the lead in the province in shutting down all public transit and parks in Windsor over COVID-19.

Not sure why Detroit and Toronto don't do the same with public transit. People are supposed to remain at home to self-isolate. Bus services in the province were blocked off from the front half of the bus so you can only sit in the back half, which causes more crowding on the bus. How are you supposed to maintain a distance of 2 meters from everybody on the bus? One infected person goes on the bus and everybody on the bus will be infected.

I don't think the worst part is here yet as they've now discovered a second, more aggressive and deadly mutant strain of COVID-19 in China.

https://windsorstar.com/news/local-n...-fe23c04c1b94/

COVID-19 concerns force shutdowns of Transit Windsor, playgrounds

Author of the article:
Brian Cross


City bus service is shutting down at the end of the weekend and playground structures are off limits immediately, in measures announced Thursday in response to the COVID-19 crisis.


After lengthy conversations with the Medical Officer of Health Dr. Wajid Ahmed,Mayor Drew Dilkens ordered the temporary suspension of Transit Windsor operations, starting when normal service ends on Sunday. The suspension, which will last at least until April 13, is necessary to safeguard the health of riders and drivers alike and lower the risk of spreading the virus.


“I recognize that despite the health warnings and advice, many in our community still rely on Transit Windsor for their daily needs,” Dilkens said in a news release.

“But, the risks associated with COVID-19 outweigh the inconvenience this shutdown will cause.

As the seriousness of this global pandemic continues to become apparent, as mayor of Windsor, I plan to do everything within my power to protect the health of local residents.”

[Jason]

From my understanding DDOT is running weekend service right now, so even though it's not completely shut down, it's reduced.

The thing is, people still need to eat, pick up prescriptions, go to work if they're "essential", and a variety of other things. If you need medical care you need to travel. And many Detroiters, especially the poorest ones who are also the most at-risk for a bunch of reasons, are the ones most likely to be transit-dependent.

I don't know what's happening out there from inside my house, but I think the best situation would be for the buses to still be running, so that when people need to get somewhere they can, but for not many people to actually be riding them, to reduce the risk.

[davewindsor]

From my understanding DDOT is running weekend service right now, so even though it's not completely shut down, it's reduced.

The thing is, people still need to eat, pick up prescriptions, go to work if they're "essential", and a variety of other things. If you need medical care you need to travel. And many Detroiters, especially the poorest ones who are also the most at-risk for a bunch of reasons, are the ones most likely to be transit-dependent.

I don't know what's happening out there from inside my house, but I think the best situation would be for the buses to still be running, so that when people need to get somewhere they can, but for not many people to actually be riding them, to reduce the risk.

If people need to go to the grocery store, corner store, or pharmacy, they can walk or take a bike. If it's a medical emergency, they can call an ambulance. We're talking about a couple weeks here, so people can stock up.

Just imagine the outbreak you can have if one infected person gets on a bus. They touch railings and doors and the virus remains on surfaces for 10 days unless it's properly and thoroughly scrubbed down and disinfected. What's the point in shutting down the factories, malls, etc., if you're going to half ass a potential outbreak by not shutting down public transportation? Do it right for a couple weeks so we don't have to have the factories and everything else shut down for months which could do serious damage to the economy.

[Canadian Visitor]

.....
Not sure why Detroit and Toronto don't do the same with public transit.

Really? And how did you expect thousands of healthcare workers to get to work? With cars they don't own? I'm well off and do own a car.........but in my social circle, mostly at/under 45 years of age............I'm one of only 3 households that does. Among a group with an above average median income.

Taking transit in Toronto is not a choice, its normal. Its a default. People choose not to own cars when a parking space in a downtown condo sells for $60,000 extra.

Sigh.

You have no realization how others live. You're off in your own world.

Also....I'd like you to try taking 2 weeks of groceries for a household of one home on the bus........never mind, doing that for a family of 4.

Zero chance.

People can't stock up like that in Toronto, that's not the way this City is organized.

[Canadian Visitor]

PS, this is how busy the TTC is at rush hour right now...

[[not quite like normal.....)

https://dynamicmedia.zuza.com/zz/m/o...r_Portrait.jpg

[davewindsor]

Really? And how did you expect thousands of healthcare workers to get to work? With cars they don't own? I'm well off and do own a car.........but in my social circle, mostly at/under 45 years of age............I'm one of only 3 households that does. Among a group with an above average median income.

Taking transit in Toronto is not a choice, its normal. Its a default. People choose not to own cars when a parking space in a downtown condo sells for $60,000 extra.

London has a population of 9 million [[three times Toronto's population) with real estate prices a lot higher than Toronto and they shut down the tube and are in lockdown. How did they do it??

There's also thousands of healthcare workers that do have cars. They can organize car pools at the hospital. Everybody can chip in $5-$10/piece for a ride. The city can subsidize parking for workers who car pool. There's ways to make it work.

What percentage of total public ridership are healthcare workers anyway? Less than 1%?? Your social circle of a few people is not a representative sample of the whole population of Toronto. Most people are supposed to be self-isolating.

Where are you getting your information from anyway? Do you have a statistics website somewhere with who owns cars and who doesn't or do you just pull numbers out of your butt again as always.

Sigh.

You have no realization how others live. You're off in your own world.

Also....I'd like you to try taking 2 weeks of groceries for a household of one home on the bus........never mind, doing that for a family of 4.

Zero chance.

People can't stock up like that in Toronto, that's not the way this City is organized.

You think this is a joke, don't you? How are you supposed to contain a pandemic when it's half assed? It sounds like you're living in fantasy land again as always thinking it won't affect you.

The Spanish Flu of 1918 infected a third of the world and killed over 50 million people, 675,000 in the US [[when the population was a quarter of what it is today) because they were half assing everything back then. The death toll from the Spanish flu could have been significantly less in the US if the proper precautions were taken. You can't just respond, "that's not the way this City is organized" when talking about the enormous death toll of the Spanish Flu. Precautions should have been taken and they were not, even though the Manchurian plague occurred in 1910 killing 12 million people in China and India and the warning signs were out there to be prepared for the next great pandemic. Half assing things is not the way to minimize the devastation. If we don't contain it now, it'll get out of control later with many more times of casualties. Public transportation should be shut down.

[davewindsor]

PS, this is how busy the TTC is at rush hour right now...

[[not quite like normal.....)

https://dynamicmedia.zuza.com/zz/m/o...r_Portrait.jpg

I don't believe that's rush hour. It must have been taken from a slower period during the day.

[Canadian Visitor]

I don't believe that's rush hour. It must have been taken from a slower period during the day.

I'm not sure why your beliefs are relevant.

The facts are what matter.

I know someone personally whose taking TTC to her job at Toronto General downtown every day.

She tells me there are zero standees and generally 1 rider per section of seats [[groups of 2 or 3 seats for the most part).

Now her route may not be definitive.

But my clients are running skeleton staffs only in office, most people are WFH.

Lots of places DT are remarkably quiet compared with normal.

There's certainly not no one about....too many people live DT for that; plus the supermarkets have some traffic and the major hospitals...........

But with the universities shut down, the schools shut down, the malls shut down, the hotels empty.......

Things are not as normal.

[davewindsor]

I'm not sure why your beliefs are relevant.

The facts are what matter.

I know someone personally whose taking TTC to her job at Toronto General downtown every day.

She tells me there are zero standees and generally 1 rider per section of seats [[groups of 2 or 3 seats for the most part).

Now her route may not be definitive.

But my clients are running skeleton staffs only in office, most people are WFH.

Lots of places DT are remarkably quiet compared with normal.

There's certainly not no one about....too many people live DT for that; plus the supermarkets have some traffic and the major hospitals...........

But with the universities shut down, the schools shut down, the malls shut down, the hotels empty.......

Things are not as normal.

For sure, her routes are not definitive. In Windsor, I am still seeing crowded buses going down Wyandotte Street even though Toronto has a population size many times higher.

All an infected person has to do is touch a pull chord, seat bars and doors for a bunch of other people throughout the day to touch it and get infected. The virus doesn't have a one hour half life on a surface, it can be a contamination issue for 10 days if it's not decontaminated. They also say you need to scrub your hands with soap and water for at least 15 seconds, so those pull chords and everything else an infected person touches has to be scrubbed down really well constantly throughout the day to decontaminate a bus. Just hosing it down once at the end of the day is not enough. Transmission is not contained just by avoiding hand shaking and covering your mouth while coughing.

You can also be infected for 2 weeks without noticing the effects, so how do riders even know they are infected until it's too late? If you reduce the service or restrict ridership to the rear half of the bus, common sense says you're going to get more riders per bus than if you ran normal ridership service on a full bus even if less people overall take buses. People are generally impatient and are not going to wait and avoid crowded buses for three hours until one with zero standees and 1 per seat with empty seat rows in between shows up. There's no way around it. Public transportation needs to be shut down completely in Toronto, Detroit and everywhere else for the spread to be contained so hospitals are not overwhelmed with sudden outbreaks.

[enio]

I don't believe that's rush hour. It must have been taken from a slower period during the day.

The two articles, attached, demonstrate the great drop in demand for train and airline travel.

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coro...-20200326.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/t...ty-planes.html

As you can see, social spacing isn't no longer a problem.

The actions taken by Transit Windsor are both prudent and necessary to prevent the spread of coronavirus. Now, if Windsor could convince Michigan and the US to take greater precautions to prevent the further spread of the coronavirus to Canada.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN21D3IG

https://windsorstar.com/news/local-n...-24d4d4d30c8d/

[davewindsor]

The two articles, attached, demonstrate the great drop in demand for train and airline travel.

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coro...-20200326.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/t...ty-planes.html

As you can see, social spacing isn't no longer a problem.

Windsor hasn't shut down the VIA Passenger rail station either, so I'm guessing not a lot of people take passenger rail service anyway unlike Transit Windsor.

I couldn't read the second article because I can't get though the NY Times paywall.

The actions taken by Transit Windsor are both prudent and necessary to prevent the spread of coronavirus. Now, if Windsor could convince Michigan and the US to take greater precautions to prevent the further spread of the coronavirus to Canada.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN21D3IG

https://windsorstar.com/news/local-n...-24d4d4d30c8d/

The first article makes an interesting point. Put healthcare workers up in empty local hotels nearby. If we're going to bail out empty hotels anyway, we might as well let hospital workers stay there. That takes care of the need to transport them using public transportation.

"The city of Windsor in Ontario is in talks with Detroit officials about using empty hotels in the Michigan city as quarantine quarters for thousands of Windsor residents who work across the Detroit River in Detroit’s hospitals, medical centers and auto plants.


If the United States eases containment standards, these Canadian workers could have to stay in Detroit “so that they don’t have to go home and possibly infect their families,” said Windsor Mayor Drew Dilkens."

[Canadian Visitor]

For sure, her routes are not definitive. In Windsor, I am still seeing crowded buses going down Wyandotte Street even though Toronto has a population size many times higher.

I don't think Windsor is a good proxy for Toronto.

All an infected person has to do is touch a pull chord, seat bars and doors for a bunch of other people throughout the day to touch it and get infected. The virus doesn't have a one hour half life on a surface, it can be a contamination issue for 10 days if it's not decontaminated. They also say you need to scrub your hands with soap and water for at least 15 seconds, so those pull chords and everything else an infected person touches has to be scrubbed down really well constantly throughout the day to decontaminate a bus. Just hosing it down once at the end of the day is not enough. Transmission is not contained just by avoiding hand shaking and covering your mouth while coughing...........

You're understanding of risk is off, you need to consider viral load, people wearing gloves, and the use of hand sanitizer or soap/water before touching one's face.

Higher risk individuals should ideally stay off transit [[elderly, immuno-compromised)

As to the issue of crowding, I repeat, its not happening in Toronto, GO Trains are running 80% empty.

TTC is off 70%

These are facts, supported by photos and the fall in fare revneue, and reduced turnstile crossing.

Public transportation needs to be shut down completely in Toronto, Detroit and everywhere else for the spread to be contained so hospitals are not overwhelmed with sudden outbreaks.

You're 100% wrong, thank goodness you run nothing.

Toronto's hospitals would have over 1/2 their staff missing. That would kill thousands, a day.

[davewindsor]

I don't think Windsor is a good proxy for Toronto.

Sure it is. Again, London has 3 times the population of Toronto and much higher real estate prices than Toronto and they shut down the tube. HOW ARE THEY DOING IT??

You're understanding of risk is off, you need to consider viral load, people wearing gloves, and the use of hand sanitizer or soap/water before touching one's face.

Higher risk individuals should ideally stay off transit [[elderly, immuno-compromised)

As to the issue of crowding, I repeat, its not happening in Toronto, GO Trains are running 80% empty.

TTC is off 70%

These are facts, supported by photos and the fall in fare revneue, and reduced turnstile crossing.

Pulling stuff out of your ass again with viral loads? My risk isn't off. Mayor Dilkens said about his decision shutting down public transit included the fact that "hundreds of people were riding each bus every day, all handling the same stop cords, railings and handles" and he felt the buses couldn't be properly sanitized to contain the spread of COVID-19.

This was reaffirmed by Dr. Wajid Ahmed, Medical Officer of Health with the Windsor-Essex County Health Unit.

You're 100% wrong, thank goodness you run nothing.

Toronto's hospitals would have over 1/2 their staff missing. That would kill thousands, a day.

"Thousands"? You just pulled another stat out of your ass. How is London doing it with over 3x the population?? There are also many ways to resolve this issue of commuting staff including putting medical staff up at nearby empty hotels, which the Mayor of Windsor is trying to do with Windsor hospital workers that commute to Detroit hospitals. Shutting down public transit would save many lives, not kill thousands. Such gibberish as always coming from you.

[Canadian Visitor]

Sure it is. Again, London has 3 times the population of Toronto and much higher real estate prices than Toronto and they shut down the tube. HOW ARE THEY DOING IT??

ANSWER: They Are NOT doing it.

https://tfl.gov.uk/

The Tube is up and running with reduced service, as is the bus system.

You see why I detest you. You didn't even google the Transport for London website to check out what was actually happening.

You have terrible information, as always.

[davewindsor]

ANSWER: They Are NOT doing it.

https://tfl.gov.uk/

The Tube is up and running with reduced service, as is the bus system.

You see why I detest you. You didn't even google the Transport for London website to check out what was actually happening.

You have terrible information, as always.

Yes they are. You don't know what you are talking about again. A lot of station "closures" below. How will the medical staff who live around these stations commute to hospitals??

https://tfl.gov.uk/tube-dlr-overgrou...tations-status

• Station closures
  
• Arsenal Closure
• Barbican Closure
• Bayswater Closure
• Bermondsey Closure
• Blackhorse Road Closure
• Borough Closure
• Bounds Green Closure
• Bow Road Closure
• Caledonian Road Closure
• Chalk Farm Closure
• Chancery Lane Closure
• Charing Cross Closure
• Clapham South Closure
• Covent Garden Closure
• Gloucester Road Closure
• Goldhawk Road Closure
• Goodge Street Closure
• Great Portland Street Closure
• Hampstead Closure
• Holland Park Closure
• Hyde Park Corner Closure
• Island Gardens DLR Station Closure
• Kilburn Park Closure
• Lancaster Gate Closure
• Manor House Closure
• Mansion House Closure
• Mornington Crescent Closure
• Pimlico Closure
• Queensway Closure
• Redbridge Closure
• Regent's Park Closure
• South Wimbledon Closure
• Southwark Closure
• St. James's Park Closure
• Stepney Green Closure
• Swiss Cottage Closure
• Temple Closure
• Tufnell Park Closure
• Warwick Avenue Closure

[Canadian Visitor]

That's a tiny fraction of the Tube's Stations. There are 270. That's maybe 15%. It would be the same at Toronto closing 10 of its stations. Except Toronto's are much further apart in most parts of the City.

[Canadian Visitor]

A far greater risk to the Windsor area is the many healthcare professionals, particularly nurses, working across the border.

The spike in Detroit area cases is becoming alarming. I'm not suggesting we prohibit that movement either, that would be cruel to Detroit and the nurses alike.

But they are a far greater risk to Windsor from a statistical perspective.

[Canadian Visitor]

In furtherance of this discussion: Toronto's Union Station, GO train concourse, 4:30pm today; its normally packed.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUJGoUpW...jpg&name=large

[Canadian Visitor]

Now, for the ultimate rub it in Dave's face moment.

Windsor's Medical Officer of Health has issued a statement saying they did not and do not support the closure of public transit.

The Mayor acting on his own account, contrary to expert advice. Just like Dave does!

https://www.wechu.org/newsroom/media...ansit-services

[Richard]

I am actually enjoying this intra Canadian bout.

I would still like to know how all of the sudden everybody became an expert on something they seem to know little about,what the experts claimed 30 days ago is now countered by more experts.

You know the experts are also saying that the way to do it is by The Herd process,or just exposing everybody to it and once you have it you become immune to it.

So you have experts saying to lock down everybody.
Then you have experts saying everybody should not be locked down and to breath deep.

If the experts said the only way to survive this is to jump off of a cliff,how many would do it?

1 of 3 things are going to happen,you are going to live or your are going to die and it will be somebody stuck in a lab that will alter that and not an expert.

[davewindsor]

That's a tiny fraction of the Tube's Stations. There are 270. That's maybe 15%. It would be the same at Toronto closing 10 of its stations. Except Toronto's are much further apart in most parts of the City.

You didn't answer my question. Out of the 39 stations that are closed, if there are hospital staff that live at those closed stations, how are the supposed to get to and from home and work?

Also, unlike the TTC, London has cancelled night service and restricted public transportation to "KEY WORKERS" only to travel to and from work [[SEE BELOW). Anyone else is not allowed to use public transportation, so it's effectively closed to the public. If someone wants to use it to buy groceries or go to the pharmacy, forget it--they are not allowed on.

If ONLY hospital workers are allowed to use public transportation in the City of Toronto, that would be an acceptable compromise to keep it open as reduced service because health care workers are more likely to take precautions seriously when using public transportation to limit the spread of COVID-19 and it's not going to get crowded if they are the only ones allowed to use it.

https://tfl.gov.uk/status-updates/pl...track-closures
Due to the Covid-19 virus, the following service changes will be in place until further notice:

No Circle or Waterloo & City line service,
No Night Tube or Night Overground service,
A reduced service is operating on all London Underground, London Overground, DLR, TfL Rail and London Trams.
Some stations will be closed. Public transport is only for key workers to travel to and from work.

[davewindsor]

A far greater risk to the Windsor area is the many healthcare professionals, particularly nurses, working across the border.

The spike in Detroit area cases is becoming alarming. I'm not suggesting we prohibit that movement either, that would be cruel to Detroit and the nurses alike.

But they are a far greater risk to Windsor from a statistical perspective.

As I mentioned in my last two posts which you obviously haven't paid attention to, the Mayor of Windsor is negotiating to allow hospital workers to be put up in the empty hotels near these Detroit hospitals, which makes sense as Trump has already agreed to bailout those empty hotels so they don't go under. So why not let the health care workers use it at no expense to limit the spread?

[davewindsor]

Now, for the ultimate rub it in Dave's face moment.

Windsor's Medical Officer of Health has issued a statement saying they did not and do not support the closure of public transit.

The Mayor acting on his own account, contrary to expert advice. Just like Dave does!

https://www.wechu.org/newsroom/media...ansit-services

Did you pay attention to the date of that press release?? It's "Friday, March 27, 2020 | 12:15 p.m. " That's today several hours ago. He changed his mind from the Mayor's announcement Wednesday. At the time, the Mayor wasn't acting on his own account. Why do you always put words in people's mouths??

[Chicago48]

Did you pay attention to the date of that press release?? It's "Friday, March 27, 2020 | 12:15 p.m. " That's today several hours ago. He changed his mind from the Mayor's announcement Wednesday. At the time, the Mayor wasn't acting on his own account. Why do you always put words in people's mouths??

In Chicago, our transit will run as usual. People need to get to groceries, doctors, and still work.

[401don]

Did you pay attention to the date of that press release?? It's "Friday, March 27, 2020 | 12:15 p.m. " That's today several hours ago. He changed his mind from the Mayor's announcement Wednesday. At the time, the Mayor wasn't acting on his own account. Why do you always put words in people's mouths??

You guys are having a heated discussion about whether it's even safe to move vital employees on public transit and yet Trump says everything will be back to normal in 2 weeks.