It feels good to be an Independent

[Tig3rzhark]

It feels good to be an Independent.

After looking around to see who the Dems are going to choose, I can only say that I hope that they pick someone good

I'm definitely don't want to see him again next year. Seeing him coming out and playing "And I'm proud to be an American..."

The song's meaning, I love it, but watching Trump outplay it, is so sad.

The Dems though, are going to need the Gen Y vote, and if they don't go out and vote like I do, it is going to be a long 4 years of "And I'm proud to be an American..."

No loyalties to ANY political party. We should have more than one in Congress and the Senate anyway.

Although I do find it funny about Sanders, running in the Dem party while he is suppose to be an Independent.

I guess he isn't an Independent anymore.

[Richard]

Sanders had to sign a contract with the DNC and agree to run as a democrat and abide by the democrat policies,what ever that is,it seems subject to change according to the wind.

He registered for his 2024 senate seat as an independent.

I am an independent,my parents were conservative Democrats.

The only way I consider myself an independent is I will support who I believe who is best for the job.

Honestly as of late and watching the insanity on the left I find myself leaning more to the right by the day.

I put more stock in politicians that do what they say,mostly because I am in business and it is expected of me.

You may not like the current president and everybody should be entitled to their opinion.

I do not agree with everything he does but I respect that he does not care what people think about him,he has a job to do and being pc correct does not always work and he is not afraid to piss people off.

We are never going to find somebody that everybody agrees with as a President,he is doing what he said he was going to do and he does not take any crap in the process,that is enough for my vote.

Not sure why people keep in insisting on changing the process because they do not agree with it,it was designed that way for a reason,many before have tried to change it and have failed.

Much easier to make it work for you.

When he is coming out and the song is playing proud to be an American,it is to a packed stadium with thousands of people that waited hours to get in,they are also proud to be an American,to try and shame people for that does not make one shine in the best light.

Little buttons in the remote allow one to change the channel.

At a rally the other day he asked the cameras to pan the audience to show how large the crowd was,they refused to do that.

All they did was stand in front a stadium full of people and show how asinine they really are,then they cry like little babies how Trump is hard on the media.

Then they wonder why when it is almost impossible to find an unbiased media source in the states any more,they all have their agenda and spend 24/7 whining about everything Trump.

They call themselves professionals at a time when professional journalists equate to writing the ingredients list on the back of a 6 pack of toilet paper.

Obama jailed more reporters then any other president in history and he was a hero.

The democrats have been telling the African American community that they are their saviors for the last 50 years,but still keep them trapped in the inner cities filled with crime,violence and lost opportunities.

If any of them actually have a crap about what they were spouting,inner cities would not even exist,but here they are still working on the Democrat plantation.

People might as as well as get used to seeing him for another four years.

Biden will get caught up in the whole Ukraine mess in a few more months that will question his credibility even more.

Bernie has the whole In love with Russia and Cuba drama going on,and is struggling to build his base,so it will be 4 more years of the bad orange guy.

Maybe longer if the elections are delayed because of the Coronavirus,so just figure another 6 years of I am proud to be an American ringing in yer head.

[jcole]

It feels good to be an Independent.

After looking around to see who the Dems are going to choose, I can only say that I hope that they pick someone good

I'm definitely don't want to see him again next year. Seeing him coming out and playing "And I'm proud to be an American..."

The song's meaning, I love it, but watching Trump outplay it, is so sad.

The Dems though, are going to need the Gen Y vote, and if they don't go out and vote like I do, it is going to be a long 4 years of "And I'm proud to be an American..."

No loyalties to ANY political party. We should have more than one in Congress and the Senate anyway.

Although I do find it funny about Sanders, running in the Dem party while he is suppose to be an Independent.

I guess he isn't an Independent anymore.

He'll be an independent again if he loses the nomination, just like he became an independent after he lost the last one. He's gaming the system.

[Pam]

He'll be an independent again if he loses the nomination, just like he became an independent after he lost the last one. He's gaming the system.

He ran as a Dem so he could participate in the debates and be on the ballot in all states. He also didn't want to be called a "spoiler" like Ralph Nader. Is that "gaming the system"? He hasn't gotten any other benefit from running as a Dem. The party elites hate him. Personally, I wish he had started a third party.

[jcole]

He ran as a Dem so he could participate in the debates and be on the ballot in all states. He also didn't want to be called a "spoiler" like Ralph Nader. Is that "gaming the system"? He hasn't gotten any other benefit from running as a Dem. The party elites hate him. Personally, I wish he had started a third party.

He's still a spoiler because his supporters insist that if he doesn't get the nomination, they won't vote for the person who does.

[Richard]

He ran as a Dem so he could participate in the debates and be on the ballot in all states. He also didn't want to be called a "spoiler" like Ralph Nader. Is that "gaming the system"? He hasn't gotten any other benefit from running as a Dem. The party elites hate him. Personally, I wish he had started a third party.

And how did that work out for the tea party when they tried starting a third party?

Its a two party system,he may be crazy,but not enough to attempt that.

[Canadian Visitor]

He'll be an independent again if he loses the nomination, just like he became an independent after he lost the last one. He's gaming the system.

In fairness, isn't 'the system' gaming the American people?

I know of no other developed democracy that so protects the established interest of just 2 parties at the expense of everyone else.

Its really a system that protects entrenched interests, and their apparatchiks rather than fostering any kind of democratic [[small d) ideals.

Voters should not be 'registered' as any party, ever.

What the hell is the point of going into a voting booth if you've declared your voting intention to the State and your community?

Parties should have members; voters should be citizens [[as in not associated with a party in respect of their voting status).

Ballots should not limit people to 2 parties or allow the election of 'slates'.

Have a look at a ballot from the Canadian 2015 federal election:



[[image credit: Toronto Star, Oct 10, 2015)

That, to me, is choice.

Truthfully, not viable to offer than kind of choice in the U.S. system today.

[Canadian Visitor]

I'll add to the above by saying I still think Canada limits choice too much by using First-Past-The-Post as its electoral system. [[like the United States).

I strongly favour mixed-member, proportional representation as the model.

In the case of a presidency, I'd prefer the model preferential balloting until someone gets 50% + 1 of the vote.

But one also needs to get voter turn out up to make that meaningful.

[Pam]

He's still a spoiler because his supporters insist that if he doesn't get the nomination, they won't vote for the person who does.

Why should they if they feel the process was rigged or they disagree with the other candidate's policies and/or the other candidate is mentally impaired?

[Pam]

In fairness, isn't 'the system' gaming the American people?

I know of no other developed democracy that so protects the established interest of just 2 parties at the expense of everyone else.

Its really a system that protects entrenched interests, and their apparatchiks rather than fostering any kind of democratic [[small d) ideals.

Voters should not be 'registered' as any party, ever.

What the hell is the point of going into a voting booth if you've declared your voting intention to the State and your community?

Parties should have members; voters should be citizens [[as in not associated with a party in respect of their voting status).

Ballots should not limit people to 2 parties or allow the election of 'slates'.

Have a look at a ballot from the Canadian 2015 federal election:



[[image credit: Toronto Star, Oct 10, 2015)

That, to me, is choice.

Truthfully, not viable to offer than kind of choice in the U.S. system today.

Yeah, more choice would be good along with no election fraud.

[jcole]

I'll add to the above by saying I still think Canada limits choice too much by using First-Past-The-Post as its electoral system. [[like the United States).

I strongly favour mixed-member, proportional representation as the model.

In the case of a presidency, I'd prefer the model preferential balloting until someone gets 50% + 1 of the vote.

But one also needs to get voter turn out up to make that meaningful.

I'd love to see the US get rid of the electoral college and not have primaries, too, but as it stands right now it's what we have. No one forces anyone to vote democratic or republican; there are other parties: Green, Libertarian, Independent, Constitution. Vote for the party you like.

[jcole]

Why should they if they feel the process was rigged or they disagree with the other candidate's policies and/or the other candidate is mentally impaired?

Because then we're stuck with a lunatic in office, but if that's what they want, that's their right. I just don't like the attitude of "I'm going to vote for the Democratic candidate, but ONLY if it's the ONE I want. If any of the other ones win, then screw you America. My way or the highway. I'm taking my ball and going home"
Seems like the only candidates whose supporters have this attitude are Bernie's. The rest are backing another candidate if their's have dropped out of the race.

[bust]

Please don't vote for me.

[jcole]

Please don't vote for me.

Rest assured, I won't, Bust.

[Richard]

In fairness, isn't 'the system' gaming the American people?

I know of no other developed democracy that so protects the established interest of just 2 parties at the expense of everyone else.

Its really a system that protects entrenched interests, and their apparatchiks rather than fostering any kind of democratic [[small d) ideals.

Voters should not be 'registered' as any party, ever.

What the hell is the point of going into a voting booth if you've declared your voting intention to the State and your community?

Parties should have members; voters should be citizens [[as in not associated with a party in respect of their voting status).

Ballots should not limit people to 2 parties or allow the election of 'slates'.

Have a look at a ballot from the Canadian 2015 federal election:



[[image credit: Toronto Star, Oct 10, 2015)

That, to me, is choice.

Truthfully, not viable to offer than kind of choice in the U.S. system today.

Its a worthless point,our system is our system,why go one about how it should be changed or how everybody else does it.

People just have a hard time with understanding that in order for somebody to win somebody has to lose.

Then out comes every reason in the world why they lost,they do not want to believe that their choice of candidate either screwed up with the process or just was not a viable electable candidate.

I am not sure why some think we should change our entire system and everything we do in order to mimic the failures that their country of choice has.

There are some countries that are run under a dictatorship,everybody that agrees with that style would be happy to stand up and say that’s how we should run ours.

That is what the majority in this country feel and have felt for over the last 200 plus years,if one does not like it that is their deficiency not the rest of the country’s.

[Pam]

Biden was quoted as saying "nothing will fundementally change" if he is elected. Is he going to address the health care crisis or climate change? He is also showing signs of cognitive decline. Why is he any better than Trump? Because he is supposed to be "nice"? He gets into arguments with voters and insults them to their faces!

[jcole]

Biden was quoted as saying "nothing will fundementally change" if he is elected. Is he going to address the health care crisis or climate change? He is also showing signs of cognitive decline. Why is he any better than Trump? Because he is supposed to be "nice"? He gets into arguments with voters and insults them to their faces!

Neither Bernie or Biden is going to be able to push jack shit through Congress as long as there is a Republican majority in the Senate, and once there is a Democratic majority, Bernie is still going to have a hard time because most of Congress is more interested in keeping their own status quo [[staying in office) than they are in changing things that they think their constituents don't want changed. They can both promise anything they want; doesn't mean it will happen.

[Richard]

Pam look at the exit polls,58% of the Democratic voters are placing the highest value on beating Trump,they have had get the orange guy pounded in their heads everyday for the last 3 years.

They do not care about policy,climate change and income inequality are the bottom of the list.

The difference between Bernie and Biden is Biden is safe they do not care what he is going to do,they just know he will not do anything drastic,which is exactly the approach Bernie wants to take.

For the majority this is not an election based on policy,it is an election based on removing the current president without throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Watch Biden campaign,I am an old white Obama,he is just regurgitating Obama’s polices and telling people that is what to expect,vote for me.

[Pam]

Seems like the only candidates whose supporters have this attitude are Bernie's. The rest are backing another candidate if their's have dropped out of the race.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...t-vote-sanders

A member of former Vice President Joe Biden's outreach team is drawing criticism for saying Friday that she would "absolutely not" vote for Bernie Sanders if the U.S. senator from Vermont became the Democratic Party's presidential nominee.

[Richard]

^ you are not recognizing the difference between the two candidates,one is a conservative or close to it and the other is a declared socialist.

It stands to reason not to expect a large percentage of Dems to support Bernie,just because.

Because of Bernie’s majority audience target and the constant revolution droning on it also stands to reason they are going to be more aggressive.

No difference then as in the past,remember what led up to Kent State?

It has been Bernie supporters that have made statements like,cities will burn,if he does not get on the ticket.

[jcole]

https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...t-vote-sanders

And, IMO, they should draw criticism...

[Pam]

Neither Bernie or Biden is going to be able to push jack shit through Congress as long as there is a Republican majority in the Senate, and once there is a Democratic majority, Bernie is still going to have a hard time because most of Congress is more interested in keeping their own status quo [[staying in office) than they are in changing things that they think their constituents don't want changed. They can both promise anything they want; doesn't mean it will happen.

Joe doesn't think we need to change anything. He's not even starting with a progressive agenda. "Status Quo Joe". I want someone who is going to keep trying to pass an agenda. [[And someone without dementia.) Bernie has "coattails", look at people like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez who was inspired by Bernie to run. If more people like that get in, his agenda has a chance.

[Richard]

^ lol I do not think you are going to get Americans tripping over themselves in order to beef up a socialist agenda,let alone more of the likes of AOC.

She is there because a tiny majority of 2000 voted her in,twist of fate does not make for a revolution.

She is muzzled,she is there but that is about it.

Agreed on the coat tail aspect and that’s is the goal but it will take many years in order to load the system up and there will be millions in place to make sure that does not happen long after we are gone.

Bernie has been chipping away for over 40 years,everybody that works with him has said he is hard to deal with in regards to unwillingness to compromise.

The only way he is going to gain power is by a bloody revolution and that is not going to happen,just because people are in Congress or the senate it does not mean they are a representative of the majority,they just were able to get enough votes in their little districts in order to put them there.

Big difference trying to win the majority in the country verses a district in a city.

[jcole]

Joe doesn't think we need to change anything. He's not even starting with a progressive agenda. "Status Quo Joe". I want someone who is going to keep trying to pass an agenda. [[And someone without dementia.) Bernie has "coattails", look at people like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez who was inspired by Bernie to run. If more people like that get in, his agenda has a chance.

And wanting change is admirable; believing it's going to happen within one election cycle isn't realistic. It's going to take more people like AOC getting elected and that isn't going to happen in the short run. They are the people who will make change, not one man in a 4 yr period. And, even though I seldom agree with Richard, he is correct, this election is largely based on getting a Democrat in the White House, not policy change.

[Richard]

It’s alot of work trying to protect democracy in our republic,between the socialists,those trying to impose sharia law and the Canadians trying to impose their form of government on us,we are being infiltrated from all sides.

By design the two party system is meant to create opposition,without it we just become a dictatorship.