Detroit moves forward with plans to get historic Fort Wayne redeveloped

[masterblaster]

https://detroit.curbed.com/2020/1/28...t-preservation

It appears that deed restrictions have limited the city government's ability to re-purpose the 78-acre plot of land. How do you want to see the Fort re-developed?

I was at a presentation a few years ago in which a person who is heavily involved in the fort indicated that a campaign was being mounted to get the Federal Government to designate it as a National Landmark, thus it would transfer to the care of the National Park Service.

[rickbak]

I'd like to see it transferred to the NPS, though that agency has historically been underfunded.

It would be kind of cool to build a small old-style baseball grounds and use it to draw 19th-century BB clubs, which seem to be growing in number. I know they already play at Greenfield Village and the Corner, but why not a little circuit of old-timey venues?

[rickbak]

The footprint for such a BB grounds is minimal--say 4 acres? I have a picture somewhere of soldiers playing ball at Fort Wayne, circa 1900.

[Henry Whalley]

...How do you want to see the Fort re-developed?

My guess is that it will be used as a draft center for WW III. In fact, just today USA Today ran a story with this headline: 'What is the draft? And can it ever be reinstated? Here's what to know'.

Among young Americans in the 1960s, there was still some patriotism. More to the point, in those days there were still some reasons to feel patriotic. But now those reasons are gone along with most of the post WW II middle class. So, I can't imagine how a new draft would do anything but tear this country violently apart at the seams. Broaching the subject of a draft in the wake of our Afghan fiasco is the height of absurdity. Mad Anthony Wayne must be rolling in his grave.

[Gistok]

^Nope... it's not Federally owned anymore, so that option is out. There is no restored/renovated space for such a function. WWIII is highly unlikely.

[Richard]

Not sure why people are always so bent on stripping the city of its historic architectural assets over a moment in time,while remaining isolationists.

Tourism in many other cities plays a big part in funding and supporting places like these,along with creative solutions,which is what the city is looking for with their RFPs.

Go to Europe and a piece of concrete laying on the ground draws tourists because of its historial significance because you are standing on the spot.

[Henry Whalley]

...WWIII is highly unlikely.

Yeah, I was being facetious. My real point being that, if ever the government reinstituted a draft, it would stir up a hornet's nest that would make the insurrection of January 6, and the protests of the 1960s, look like Girl Scout Cookie sales. I think we could count on our fingers the number of people in this country who haven't grown disaffected by forty-plus years of neoliberalism. i.e., self-Salomation from sea to shining sea.

[oladub]

Yeah, I was being facetious. My real point being that, if ever the government reinstituted a draft, it would stir up a hornet's nest that would make the insurrection of January 6, and the protests of the 1960s, look like Girl Scout Cookie sales. I think we could count on our fingers the number of people in this country who haven't grown disaffected by forty-plus years of neoliberalism. i.e., self-Salomation from sea to shining sea.

Democrats recently worked expanding Jimmy Carter's draft registration to include women into the defense appropriations bill. It was silent removed somewhere along the way.

I am a graduate of the Fort Wayne induction process. It was poorly run. Strips of paper that went into vials of urine were dipped in and out. I was told later that they are supposed to remain in the urine for some time for accuracy. It seemed like everyone getting off the bus from Ann Arbor had a stack of paperwork to show the doctors. Black kids and white kids from rural Michigan did not. Guess who got drafted.

[Henry Whalley]

...Strips of paper that went into vials of urine were dipped in and out.

My draft card went into the urinal and came out positive for both sanity and non-stupidity.

[K-slice]

Easy way to do it, reinstate some sort of required government service [[ah-la Israel) from every citizen during peace time.

The boomers deep seated sociopathic selfishness has lead to too many problems to count in this society.

[Jimaz]

...The boomers deep seated sociopathic selfishness has lead to too many problems to count in this society.

All These "OK Boomer"​ Memes Are Promoting Ageism in the Workplace

...I find the whole story to be equal parts frustrating and disheartening. Baby Boomers are those people born between 1946 and 1964. Aside from the amount of time they’ve spent on this earth falling within that 18-year window, what other commonalities do you think this group shares?

More than 500,000 surveys in the Valuegraphics database tell us the truth: NOTHING. Globally, Baby Boomers agree with each other on something just 16% of the time, so to accuse someone of “acting like a Boomer” does nothing but reveal ignorance. All Boomers believe and behave differently, and the same holds true for Generation X, Millennials, and Generation Z....

[Kathleen]

Wonder if/how this has affected the prospect of redevelopment?

Feds file bribery case against Postal Service and Historic Fort Wayne official
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...al/6907424001/

[Henry Whalley]

Easy way to do it, reinstate some sort of required government service [[ah-la Israel) from every citizen during peace time.

The boomers deep seated sociopathic selfishness has lead to too many problems to count in this society.

Think again, after reading the Wikipedia article on neoliberalism AKA laissez faire capitalism, trickle-down economics, globalism, unrestricted free trade, outsourcing, union busting, deregulation, etc., AKA deep-seated selfishness as a national strategy.

The government serves only oligarchs and plutocrats. So, why should hoi polloi serve the government?

Uncle Sam will learn a harsh truth about its disaffected subjects, if ever it tries to draft an Army.

Neoliberalism - Wikipedia

[Honky Tonk]

Wonder if/how this has affected the prospect of redevelopment?

Feds file bribery case against Postal Service and Historic Fort Wayne official
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...al/6907424001/

Huh, Troy and Rochester Hiils, both in Oakland County. Not Wayne County and not Detroit. Oakland County seems to be a hotbed of corruption.

[masterblaster]

HourDetroit article from May 2021:

That is, rather than the city handling the project or selling out to a major developer, Detroit will divvy up the property, leasing individual buildings to a variety of organizations and companies. Fort Wayne will remain a cohesive unit, operating as a network of small adaptive-reuse projects, with tenants paying to remodel the spaces and the costs being deducted from their rent. A full redevelopment is likely to take a decade, Chief Parks Planner Meagan Elliott says

Five applicants have expressed interested in joining the fort’s current tenants, which include the Detroit Historical Society, the Tuskegee Airmen National Museum, and the Historic Fort Wayne Coalition. Among the possible new arrivals is:

- a partnership between Detroit Rising Development and Grand Circus Media to turn stables into an indoor-outdoor concert venue and brewery

- C.A.N. Art Handworks and the Southwest Detroit Business Association, which hope to establish a skilled trades training center and a museum focused on the region’s Latinx community.

- Nottawaseppi Huron Band of the Potawatomi is looking to take ownership of the existing Great Lakes Indian Museum and remaining burial mound as cultural sites.

- James Oliver Coffee Co. co-founder David Shock wants to relocate the roastery’s site at East Davison Street and Mt. Elliott Street on Detroit’s east side — an area that Shock calls “the middle of nowhere” — to Fort Wayne, where he would also add a café.

Crain's article from March 2021 with more info


I'll keep beating this drum, but I don't understand why the city didn't take this kind of innovative approach of adaptive re-use and creating a campus of cultural amenities with the Michigan State Fairgrounds. The Fairgrounds was in a much better location and was much more well-known and beloved.

[Gistok]

Easy way to do it, reinstate some sort of required government service [[ah-la Israel) from every citizen during peace time.

The boomers deep seated sociopathic selfishness has lead to too many problems to count in this society.

Yeah... damn them boomers... losing 58,000 of them as cannon fodder in Vietnam wasn't enough for some people apparently. Those selfish boomers...

[Richard]

HourDetroit article from May 2021:



Five applicants have expressed interested in joining the fort’s current tenants, which include the Detroit Historical Society, the Tuskegee Airmen National Museum, and the Historic Fort Wayne Coalition. Among the possible new arrivals is:

- a partnership between Detroit Rising Development and Grand Circus Media to turn stables into an indoor-outdoor concert venue and brewery

- C.A.N. Art Handworks and the Southwest Detroit Business Association, which hope to establish a skilled trades training center and a museum focused on the region’s Latinx community.

- Nottawaseppi Huron Band of the Potawatomi is looking to take ownership of the existing Great Lakes Indian Museum and remaining burial mound as cultural sites.

- James Oliver Coffee Co. co-founder David Shock wants to relocate the roastery’s site at East Davison Street and Mt. Elliott Street on Detroit’s east side — an area that Shock calls “the middle of nowhere” — to Fort Wayne, where he would also add a café.

Crain's article from March 2021 with more info


I'll keep beating this drum, but I don't understand why the city didn't take this kind of innovative approach of adaptive re-use and creating a campus of cultural amenities with the Michigan State Fairgrounds. The Fairgrounds was in a much better location and was much more well-known and beloved.

I do not get it either,see fairgrounds all across the country closed or closing down,but yet the one by me is packed every weekend and during the week,when the fair is not in season it is concerts,events from RV and boat shows to craft shows,there is never not something happening where there are thousands attending.

Maybe in this case there is more money in the redevelopment for a few verses as a large public venue.

[Gistok]

^
Richard, I think that the weather works in your favor [[at least for much of the year). Here in Detroit, as in much of the US, our fair buildings are used only in warm weather months, and there is no heating infrastructure.

I think that the absolute best state fair location in the country by far is Dallas's Fair Park... location of the 1936 Texas Centennial Exposition. It is almost unheard of to have a World's Fair type park that is still intact. They have all otherwise been mostly torn down.

[Richard]

^ all those events I mentioned all take place inside,it would be actually cheaper to heat verses a/c cause you got body heat factored in.

Thats the thing with adaptive reuse,people are afraid to push the envelope,like with schools,sitting farrow all across the country for decades,and all of the sudden one day somebody decided they could make condos out of them,like there was an invisible wall preventing it for happening before.

With All of the commercial properties I have had before,I was never comfortable until I could maximize some kind of revenue off of every sqft.

Its like with this fort and belle isle,nice if it could be solely taxpayer supported,but people are squeezed already,so they have to be self supported,it’s not like re-inventing the wheel,there is no structure in this country throughout history that has not be re-used or made productive again.

So there is a wealth of information on what works or not,it’s not like they fell out of the sky from mars.

[Hermod]

Easy way to do it, reinstate some sort of required government service [[ah-la Israel) from every citizen during peace time.

The boomers deep seated sociopathic selfishness has lead to too many problems to count in this society.

It was the boomer kids that either got drafted and sent to Vietnam or dodged the draft in college or Canada.

[Hermod]

^
Richard, I think that the weather works in your favor [[at least for much of the year). Here in Detroit, as in much of the US, our fair buildings are used only in warm weather months, and there is no heating infrastructure.

I think that the absolute best state fair location in the country by far is Dallas's Fair Park... location of the 1936 Texas Centennial Exposition. It is almost unheard of to have a World's Fair type park that is still intact. They have all otherwise been mostly torn down.

Before Cobo Hall, many shows to include the Detroit Auto Show were held in the cooler months in the State Fair pavilion.

[Gistok]

Before Cobo Hall, many shows to include the Detroit Auto Show were held in the cooler months in the State Fair pavilion.

Back in the late 1940s the Detroit Auto Show was held in the drill hall of Masonic Temple [just above Masonic Temple Theatre]. They used to use a crane to get the cars up there, and back down.

[Zacha341]

Hah! I am at the end of the boomers [folks born 1960-64] and we've paid the taxes! All these years along with the older more maligned boomers.

We're not being replaced in the same numbers [by those working over the span of years consistently]... who's gonna pay for all of the government goodies? Promised?

Yeah... damn them boomers... losing 58,000 of them as cannon fodder in Vietnam wasn't enough for some people apparently. Those selfish boomers...

[Henry Whalley]

...who's gonna pay for all of the government goodies?

The middle class has disappeared. And it's my guess is that those programs will disappear, too.

[Honky Tonk]

who's gonna pay for all of the government goodies? Promised?

Not to worry. In a few years they'll do away with Social Security payments and have all the money they need. At least for a decade or so...