Peter Karmanos lobbying for Kwame Kilpatrick Pardon...

[bartocktoo]

Highly unlikely that while serving,you told your superiors where and when you would choose to serve.

The military is not a democracy and when they tell you where you are going it is not a debate and you do not get to say,gee I do not agree with that,I think I will sit this one out.

So you just had Bust agree with you on something that would never happen.

It does not even make sense,nobody wants to go into battle,as a veteran you would know better then that,you signed a contract when you sign up,they own you and nobody has the freedom of telling them what you are going to do as an individual.It does not work that way.

Read the reports of the two warships that collided with civilian freighters in the harbors.

With both ships the captains and XO were relieved of command and demoted because they allowed the crew to do what ever they wanted on the ship,with the worst part being the electronics warfare personnel had meals and soft drinks sitting on top of multi million dollar electronic warfare equipment.

In a battle situation both of those ships and their crews would have been sunk and dead,maybe you served in a similar situation where the crews controlled the ship and there was zero chain of command.

How does one of the most advanced warships in the world that cost a billion dollars run into a another ship in the harbor?

Because it was crewed by people with that mindset of what suited them best and it got 7 of their shipmates killed,that’s the way it works,it is never the one that screwed up that gets killed it is the bystanders that pay the price.

In the military you have to be prepared to do battle at any given second,it is called readiness,and it does not work if half of the force is standing there debating whether or not they agree with the actions.

Lots of non committed people in the military,if you are in the military those are the ones that you do not want to be even near you because they will get you killed before the enemy does.

Why even sign up if you are not prepared to go all the way?

You a Vet?

[Gistok]

Richard... while there are 40+ logical fallacies relating to debating... you are the ultimate expert on Red Herring fallacies...

Red Herring

Description: Attempting to redirect the argument to another issue to which the person doing the redirecting can better respond. The red herring is a deliberate diversion of attention with the intention of trying to abandon the original argument.


Logical Form:
Argument A is presented by person 1.
Person 2 introduces argument B.
Argument A is abandoned.

Example #1:
Mike: It is morally wrong to cheat on your spouse, why on earth would you have done that?
Ken: But what is morality exactly?
Mike: It’s a code of conduct shared by cultures.
Ken: But who creates this code?...

Explanation: Ken has successfully derailed this conversation off of his sexual digressions to the deep, existential, discussion on morality.

[Richard]

Richard... while there are 40+ logical fallacies relating to debating... you are the ultimate expert on Red Herring fallacies...

Red Herring

Description: Attempting to redirect the argument to another issue to which the person doing the redirecting can better respond. The red herring is a deliberate diversion of attention with the intention of trying to abandon the original argument.


Logical Form:
Argument A is presented by person 1.
Person 2 introduces argument B.
Argument A is abandoned.

Example #1:
Mike: It is morally wrong to cheat on your spouse, why on earth would you have done that?
Ken: But what is morality exactly?
Mike: It’s a code of conduct shared by cultures.
Ken: But who creates this code?...

Explanation: Ken has successfully derailed this conversation off of his sexual digressions to the deep, existential, discussion on morality.

This thread came to 3 conclusions.

Some agreed that Trump would pardon Kilpatrick
Some agreed that there is no way he would entertain a pardon
Some posted Trump would never pardon Kilpatrick because he is black.

I tried finding you post directed to them in regards of red herrings but it it appears that it is a selective process of determination.

So how long would you like to beat the dead horse that was based on a simple statement that was never even verified ?

Outside of nothing further to add you are welcome to continue to discuss the probability of a kilpatrick pardon,my guess is you had nothing further so you created something.

How was your post #134 and #96 not a red herring as you described?

It had nothing to do with the original topic,unless of course you feel you are exempt from your own guidelines?

As long as we are posting definitions

Definition of hypocrite



1: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion

2: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

[Meddle]

Richard... while there are 40+ logical fallacies ...

It's really a lot easier to just scroll past his nonsense.

[Bigdd]

Mr. Kilpatrick is an actual criminal,.. whose actions really did hurt a lot of people. Poor people at that. There's no way our president pardons him.


On the other hand, Blugovitch had served enough time. Perhaps too much.

On the face of it what he did looks terrible. But the reality is far different.

He didn't set up a scheme to sell a senate seat,.. rather the Obama admin contacted HIM to see what he'd want to put forward a guy they liked. [[It's common for someone leaving a seat like that to want to help pick the replacement,.. and perhaps offer a sweetener to get the Governor to move in that direction).

This is routine,.. and not actually illegal. Political horse-trading [[they call it). Mr. Blugovitch responded with a few things,... some of them jokingly. Never did "sell" the seat. Nothing illegal attempted,.. and there were no victims.

It's a bad look though.

And he served 8 YEARS. EIGHT !

Seriously,.. the average TIME SERVED FOR RAPE is only 5.4 years [[after time off for good behavior etc). And this guy did 8 for something that's not an actual crime?

Releasing him was a "bad look",.. but probably the right thing to do. Our president seems to have the guts to simply do what's right,... the optics be damned.

No way he releases an unrepentant, narcissistic robber of the poor like Mr. Kilpatrick.

[Scottathew]

I can't stand the guy, I hope he loses. He's a liar, he's racist, he's arrogant, divisive, and he thinks he can get away with anything he wants.

Statement evaluates to true.

Trump has the worst human qualities. He's the embodiment of why capitalism must be legislated and regulated. He's an awful friend, businessperson, husband, and president. His main priority is always enriching himself.

Trumpism only works with checks, balances, and consequences. Unrestrained Trumpism leads to a very unbalanced world where the few hoard all the money, human morality is abandoned, and kings rule the world.

[Bigdd]

Trump has the worst human qualities. He's the embodiment of why capitalism must be legislated and regulated.

Not sure if you realize,.. but bigger government IS what causes a bigger divide between the rich and the poor.

As more and more of the nations wealth gets funneled into and back out of government,.. the more and more imperative it is to have lawyers and lobbyists working full time for you in Washington, so as to influence politicians, and steer and even help write the bills themselves.

Because THAT'S where the money is. The problem is,.. only the very wealthy and big corporations can afford to play that game. So the middle class gets squeezed out,.. and you end up with LOTS of poor,.. and a few very rich.

Big corporations LOVE regulation. You wouldn't think so,.. but it's true. When some new regulation comes along that causes companies to have to spend a lot of money on compliance,.. the huge corporation with a 100 lawyers already on staff isn't bothered all that much. For them it amounts to a rounding error in their petty cash. But for the small company, it's a crushing blow.

So big corp's such as GE and the health ins industry actually help write and lobby for the very bills that are supposedly aimed to restrain them. It helps crush the upstart competition.


What you've witnessed for the last 3 years is wages for the lowest income people increase at 3 TIMES the rate of income for the wealthy. This is [[I think) the first time in my lifetime we've seen that.

Under Bush 2, and Obama,.. wages rose at LESS than inflation [[if at all) for lower income groups,... meaning the lower income workers were actually LOOSING ground financially,... even BEFORE considering the effects of the great recession.

What's happening under Pres Trump is what the Dems CLAIM they've been wanting to do forever. But every time they get into office,.. they institute policies that hurt the poor, and enrich their corporate friends. [[Think trade deals with China, NAFTA, etc)


And our current president is going to win re-election in the biggest landslide since Reagan's re-election in late 1983. My guess is he'll win 46 states. Electoral college numbers in the 400's.

And if Mr. Sanders is the Dem nominee,... the Repubs will pick up 60 House seats and 1/2 doz or more Senate seats. LANDSLIDE !

[Scottathew]

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...me-kilpatrick/

If you live in her district, you should let her know what you think: https://housedems.com/gay-dagnogo

DETROIT – A Michigan lawmaker will visit the White House to request clemency for former Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick.Michigan State Representative Sherry Gay-Dagnogo will travel to Washington D.C., as a part of a Black History Month event.

In an email newsletter, Rep. Gay-Dagnogo says she was invited by President Trump to attend the event and will discuss possible clemency for the former Detroit mayor. She says she will be delivering a letter to President Trump “signed by several Detroit Caucus Members, Elected Officials, and Ecumenical Leaders.”
"If there is one thing I have been consistent about from the inception of getting elected, it is my commitment to the pursuit of racial equity in respect to criminal justice reform. No one is arguing the former mayor’s guilt or innocence; what we’re seeking ... is a conversation about ... the disproportionate sentencing that men of color experience at every level of the system, and I am appreciative of the invitation and looking forward to having an opportunity with the President or members of his administration to discuss favorably reviewing the former Mayor’s existing petition already before the President.
We don’t have to agree on every issue, or even a majority of issues, to see the plain facts of this situation and recognize that those who issued Mr. Kilpatrick’s sentence sought to make an example out of a powerful but flawed black man. This discussion is about changing that example to one of second chances and rehabilitation - the same opportunities he has given to a number of other recently incarcerated individuals. I welcome allies of all backgrounds in the fight for justice."

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