Detroit Metro Airport

**bigboat** · January-25-20, 06:44 AM

We have a super nice airport in Detroit and according to the latest statistics it is definetely not as busy as it used to be. When Metro opened it was rated the 11th busiest airport in the US, now it is rated as the 19th busiest airport in the US. I had the feeling when Delta absorbed Northwest Airlines, Metro was going to be pushed to a more irrelevant airport. Delta has their operation concentrated in Atlanta. What does not make sense is Metro is rated #1 in traveler satisfaction out of all US airports. Latest videos indicates Metro is more empty than ever.

**313WX** · January-25-20, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by bigboat

We have a super nice airport in Detroit and according to the latest statistics it is definetely not as busy as it used to be. When Metro opened it was rated the 11th busiest airport in the US, now it is rated as the 19th busiest airport in the US. I had the feeling when Delta absorbed Northwest Airlines, Metro was going to be pushed to a more irrelevant airport. Delta has their operation concentrated in Atlanta. What does not make sense is Metro is rated #1 in traveler satisfaction out of all US airports. Latest videos indicates Metro is more empty than ever.

It's not so much that Delta has stiffed DTW. There are a number of real issues causing what you describe [[most of which are because of Metro Detroit itself).

1. Aside from the office staff for the Big 3 Automakers and their suppliers, the metro area is predominately blue collar / working class. They simply don't have the disposable income to travel long distances for pleasure all that frequently, compared to professional class workers in places like Atlanta, Dallas, Charlotte, DC, etc.

2. Following the recession, in an effort to save money and show they're fiscallly responsible to the FEDs, the Big 3 Automakers really tightened the purse strings on business travel. Buyers rarely travel to their vendors, Engineers only travel if absolutely necessary, etc.

3. GM and, to far lesser extents, Chrysler & Ford have been exiting major foreign markets, reducing the need for international travel. Also, they've shut down most of their US operations outside a roughly 100 mile [[driving distance) radius of Metro Detroit, reducing the need for domestic air travel.

4. Detroit is a fortress hub that's smack dab in the middle between Chicago and Toronto [[both much bigger hubs with better flight connectivity, which means cheaper flights). So traffic that would otherwise consider flying out of DTW instead makes the trek to ORD or TOR.

5. With Metro Detroit's stagnant economy and population, that means a lack of organic growth that would lead to a natural increase in output in terms of operations at DTW, like what's happening at Denver's airport.

Now, in all fairness to Metro Detroit and DTW, Philadelphia's airport [[with only 30 million passengers) suffers from the same issues highlighted in #1, #4 and #5.

**renf** · January-25-20, 10:00 AM

There is also an accessibility issue with regard to DTW. Most major airports in the US have heavy or light rail access from the largest nearby city and from many suburban locations. This is true for Boston, both New York airports, Hartford, Phildelphia, Baltimore, Washington, Atlanta and Miami. In the Midwest, there is heavy or light rail service to airports in Cleveland, both Chicago airports, St. Louis, Milwaukee and Minneapolis-St. Paul. Does anyone understand why the administrators at DTW failed to secure federal funding for a rail system that would make their facility much more accessible?

**313WX** · January-25-20, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by renf

There is also an accessibility issue with regard to DTW.

That's a good point.

Compared to every other major city, Detroit's airport just feels way out there [[imagine if DC only had Dulles airport, for comparison).

While traffic usually isn't bad unless there's construction or an accident, it's an extremely long ass haul for people on the east side or in the northern suburbs.

**Atticus** · January-25-20, 10:20 AM

In regards to the accessibility issue and lack of transit connections, this is definitely a problem. But if we are honest, this problem mostly affects the attractiveness of the region to bring in more conventions, meetings, and other general tourists. Expanding further on this, bringing more meetings and conventions advertises the region to outsiders. As a result, the attractiveness of having convenient transit would likely bring in more out-of-state businesses and associated workers, some of which may actually choose to fly more from here [[or move here) . But of the current residents here today, there isn’t any significant number of people choosing not to fly because transit doesn’t exist.

Sure the locals living in the CBD might benefit if there was a better transit option to connect the CBD and the airport, but frankly if you can afford a plane ticket, you can afford the Uber ride to DTW. The people who would stand the most to gain are airport workers, likely many of lower incomes who make the trip daily. They would stand to gain the most, and are the ones currently riding the FAST bus today.

**Metro25** · January-25-20, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by bigboat

We have a super nice airport in Detroit and according to the latest statistics it is definetely not as busy as it used to be. When Metro opened it was rated the 11th busiest airport in the US, now it is rated as the 19th busiest airport in the US. I had the feeling when Delta absorbed Northwest Airlines, Metro was going to be pushed to a more irrelevant airport. Delta has their operation concentrated in Atlanta. What does not make sense is Metro is rated #1 in traveler satisfaction out of all US airports. Latest videos indicates Metro is more empty than ever.

Ranking doesn't mean it's not as busy as it used to be unless the actual numbers say that. It just means other airports got busier.

How are you judging by latest videos? That's kinda absurd.

**Metro25** · January-25-20, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Atticus

Sure the locals living in the CBD might benefit if there was a better transit option to connect the CBD and the airport, but frankly if you can afford a plane ticket, you can afford the Uber ride to DTW. The people who would stand the most to gain are airport workers, likely many of lower incomes who make the trip daily. They would stand to gain the most, and are the ones currently riding the FAST bus today.

People can more than afford plane tickets here. Even lower middle class types regularly take trips to Florida.

**Atticus** · January-25-20, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Metro25

People can more than afford plane tickets here. Even lower middle class types regularly take trips to Florida.

I completely agree. The point is though, if you can afford the plane ticket, you can also afford the Uber ride. And unless there is a crash on I-94, Uber is going to be more convenient, faster, and easier to use than even the best designed transit system.

Transit is more convenient for out of town guests who want to be cheap, or who are from other countries and don’t have a US phone data plan [[making Uber difficult to operate from their phone, or a foreign system they don’t understand). Again, the point remains: Transit’s greatest benefit is to serve out-of-town visitors [[and thus make the region more appealing to that audience), and also to serve airport workers who commute daily.

Transit needs to be designed to serve a need. If there is no need, people won’t use it. All too often we hear people say “the region needs transit”, which is basically a solution looking for a problem statement. What the region actually needs is to identify specific problems where transit is the best solution. The person flying to Florida doesn’t need transit, as Uber is a better solution for their need. The airport worker on other hand probably could use better transit, so frame the problem statement correctly.

**softailrider** · January-25-20, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

That's a good point.

Compared to every other major city, Detroit's airport just feels way out there [[imagine if DC only had Dulles airport, for comparison).

While traffic usually isn't bad unless there's construction or an accident, it's an extremely long ass haul for people on the east side or in the northern suburbs.

Im in the Maple / Lasher area. If there is average traffic, I can usually get to the airport in under 40 minutes easy. If there’s no traffic, and I put my food down [[not going through Allen Park) I can get there in 30 minutes.

**Atticus** · January-25-20, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Metro25

Ranking doesn't mean it's not as busy as it used to be unless the actual numbers say that. It just means other airports got busier.

How are you judging by latest videos? That's kinda absurd.

Passenger volume at DTW has grown every year for the last 10 years. It still hasnt caught up to pre recession levels yet, but is pretty close. As pointed out by other posters, other regions have just grown quicker.

**wazootyman** · January-25-20, 01:38 PM

The rank may have dropped, but the passenger traffic may, if my estimates are correct, actually set an [[all time?) record [[for post-1995).

Here's a real quick chart I put together. This data is available via https://www.metroairport.com/busines...ion-statistics.

Name: DTW Passenger Stats.png
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Name: DTW Passenger Stats.png
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[[sorry I can't figure out how to get this to display inline?)

One disclaimer: The 2019 value is an estimate. Based upon the figures for 2019:

https://www.metroairport.com/sites/d...ics_report.pdf

...it seems reasonable to assume the trend will continue through December, and we will see a year-over-year increase from 2018 of 3.8 %. As of November, passenger traffic was 33,729,787. 2018 ended with 35,236,676 passengers, so +3.8 % = 36,575,669.

**Atticus** · January-25-20, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by wazootyman

The rank may have dropped, but the passenger traffic may, if my estimates are correct, actually set an [[all time?) record [[for post-1995).

Here's a real quick chart I put together. This data is available via https://www.metroairport.com/busines...ion-statistics.

Name: DTW Passenger Stats.png
Views: 1722
Size: 19.2 KB

[[sorry I can't figure out how to get this to display inline?)

One disclaimer: The 2019 value is an estimate. Based upon the figures for 2019:

https://www.metroairport.com/sites/d...ics_report.pdf

...it seems reasonable to assume the trend will continue through December, and we will see a year-over-year increase from 2018 of 3.8 %. As of November, passenger traffic was 33,729,787. 2018 ended with 35,236,676 passengers, so +3.8 % = 36,575,669.

This is good information. Honestly, DTW is about as well served as the market will allow currently. The best way to increase service is to increase the demand for service. That means hosting more conventions and business meetings, getting more visitors, and capturing more of the “leakage” to other markets. The first two involve more hotel and visitor infrastructure, and doing a better job of getting more meetings and conventions to come here. The latter involves getting more low-cost carriers to offer service and lower fares, especially internationally [[Aer Lingus, Norwegian, Iceland Air, etc) to pull back some of the traffic driving to YYZ. Finally, a few more flights to Canada [[ie WestJet) would be nice as well.

**Luke09** · January-25-20, 04:22 PM

I will take quality over quantity, meaning DTW is a much more pleasant experience than airports that are busier [[EWR, ATL, ORD, LAX).

**bigboat** · January-25-20, 04:58 PM

There is nothing absurb, I travelled for Ford all over the world not so many years ago and Metro was busier. We don't even have the International travel we used to have.

**wazootyman** · January-25-20, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by bigboat

There is nothing absurb, I travelled for Ford all over the world not so many years ago and Metro was busier.

You may think that - and it's hard to quantify anecdotal evidence. But the numbers don't lie, and if your reference point is in the last 10 years, it's just not true. Since 2009, passenger traffic has increased from 31,357,388 to my estimate of [[since the official number has not yet been released) 36,575,669. That is an increase, on average, of 521,828 more passengers each year [[+16.6% from 2009 to 2019).

To be fair, 2009 was pretty grim, and traffic had really fallen due to the global recession. But I think the fact that we're - from what I can see - on track to set an all-time record, it's pretty decent news [[especially when you compare to relative boom times).

Originally Posted by bigboat

We don't even have the International travel we used to have.

Again, not true, unless you're citing a time period that I don't have data for.

Since CY 2012, international travel has increased from 2,816,022 to 3,263,378 [[CY 2018). Reference:

https://www.metroairport.com/sites/d...rs_Jan2019.pdf

Since that document only goes up to January of CY 2019, I need to refer again to a separate document:

https://www.metroairport.com/sites/d...ics_report.pdf

It appears that as of November CY 2019, we're at 2,998,346. This shows a modest decline of 0.4 % year-over-year. So, maybe this year we end at 3,250,324 international passengers. From CY 2012 to CY 2019, that is an increase of 15.4 %.

I don't work for the airport. I do travel through DTW quite a bit. It seems busier than ever, in my opinion. I can also admit it isn't the first time I've looked at these figures. It's something I occasionally check in on [[along with other regional stats) as I think it's a really good indicator of how the region is doing.

**Gistok** · January-25-20, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

.....
4. Detroit is a fortress hub that's smack dab in the middle between Chicago and Toronto [[both much bigger hubs with better flight connectivity, which means cheaper flights). So traffic that would otherwise consider flying out of DTW instead makes the trek to ORD or TOR

I disagree with this statement. Driving from Detroit to either Toronto or Chicago involves 5 hours to get to either airport... so if you include the 10 hour time spent just getting there and back hardly makes it seem worth it. Plus if you go thru Toronto to go to other USA cities, you have to deal with the extra ordeal of going thru Customs... not fun.... especially when you have to go thru Customs twice in both directions.

The only way that Toronto [[and lesser extent Chicago) might make it worth your while is if you get cheap flights to Europe or other continents that really provide significant money savings.

Otherwise, I don't see either Chicago or Toronto as an often used alternative to those living in SE Michigan going to other US cities.

**313WX** · January-25-20, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

I disagree with this statement. Driving from Detroit to either Toronto or Chicago involves 5 hours to get to either airport... so if you include the 10 hour time spent just getting there and back hardly makes it seem worth it. Plus if you go thru Toronto to go to other USA cities, you have to deal with the extra ordeal of going thru Customs... not fun.... especially when you have to go thru Customs twice in both directions.

The only way that Toronto [[and lesser extent Chicago) might make it worth your while is if you get cheap flights to Europe or other continents that really provide significant money savings.

Otherwise, I don't see either Chicago or Toronto as an often used alternative to those living in SE Michigan going to other US cities.

DTW's entrapment overlaps with Chicago's and Toronto's in SW Michigan / Northern Indiana and SW Ontario.

**313WX** · January-25-20, 07:58 PM

BTW, getting back to the claim that Delta has made DTW irrelevant.

Bear in mind, when Delta acquired Northwest Airlines, the first thing they did was de-hub Cincinnati and diverted a lot of their traffic to Detroit, thanks in part because Delta was impressed by Metro's recent renovations and the brand new McNamara Terminal, while Cincinnati's facilities were fairly dated. Up until now, DTW has been [[and arguably still is) Delta's nicest-looking airport, and it's the one that's featured frequently in their ads.

So if anyone should have a bone with pick with Delta, it's Cincinnati [[and Memphis, whose traffic was diverted to Atlanta).

**MrNittany** · January-25-20, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Now, in all fairness to Metro Detroit and DTW, Philadelphia's airport [[with only 30 million passengers) suffers from the same issues highlighted in #1, #4 and #5.

PHL is a very good analogy for DTW.

PHL and DTW both have quite a bit of non-connecting traffic. The airports serve a pretty big Metro region.

And PHL and DTW both serve a strategic purpose in terms of connecting domestic flows for their primary airline. PHL is good for north-to-south along the east coast. DTW is good for northeast-to-west, it's also good for upper Midwest to Florida.

BUT - there are a number of other airports/airlines that ALSO can serve those same connecting flows. And that a structural reality that limits PHL's numbers, and DTW's numbers as well.

Just last night, I had to fly Cleveland-Denver. But I had to leave after 4:30 ET, after the last non-stop. As it is, I did fly Delta, connecting in DTW. But I definitely had a number of other options too.

**p1acebo** · January-26-20, 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

I disagree with this statement. Driving from Detroit to either Toronto or Chicago involves 5 hours to get to either airport... so if you include the 10 hour time spent just getting there and back hardly makes it seem worth it. Plus if you go thru Toronto to go to other USA cities, you have to deal with the extra ordeal of going thru Customs... not fun.... especially when you have to go thru Customs twice in both directions.

The only way that Toronto [[and lesser extent Chicago) might make it worth your while is if you get cheap flights to Europe or other continents that really provide significant money savings.

Otherwise, I don't see either Chicago or Toronto as an often used alternative to those living in SE Michigan going to other US cities.

This is a valid point, and I think with the MAJORITY of flights this is true. However, I will say that I have driven to Toronto for an international flight as opposed to flying out of DTW [[Canadian flights to Europe are always cheaper, we get screwed as Americans... it was less than half!).

The drive there wasn't bad the the drive back after an 8 hour flight was not ideal. DTW is definitely a great airport, and I would say baring crazy savings it is still worth it to fly directly out as opposed to driving to one of the larger hubs.

**Gistok** · January-26-20, 04:51 AM

Originally Posted by p1acebo

This is a valid point, and I think with the MAJORITY of flights this is true. However, I will say that I have driven to Toronto for an international flight as opposed to flying out of DTW [[Canadian flights to Europe are always cheaper, we get screwed as Americans... it was less than half!).

The drive there wasn't bad the the drive back after an 8 hour flight was not ideal. DTW is definitely a great airport, and I would say baring crazy savings it is still worth it to fly directly out as opposed to driving to one of the larger hubs.

Exactly... Europe makes Toronto competitive over Detroit. Back in 1973 as a kid I remember taking a charter flight from Windsor to Frankfurt. Back in the 1970s and 1980s cheap charter flights to Europe were all the rage.

Anyone remember Travel Charter? They were affiliated with the Detroit "Detroiter Abend Post" German language newspaper [[founded in 1854 on Brush St. downtown), now known as the "Nordamerikanischer Wochenpost" [[now located in Troy). They founded [[and later closed) Travel Charter, which offered cheap charter flights to Germany from SE Michigan.

**iheartthed** · January-26-20, 03:00 PM

Detroit Metro has just about as many passengers as it ever did, but it has slid down the rankings for traffic. Metro Detroit's position as the 14th largest MSA is only slightly out of line with Detroit Metro Airport's position as the 19th busiest airport.

Airline consolidation and tourism has propelled some airports serving smaller cities above Detroit Metro. Airlines have much more control over picking winner and loser airports. Charlotte Douglas Airport is the 12th busiest airport, even though Charlotte is the 23rd largest MSA. Denver International is the 5th busiest U.S. airport even though Denver is the 19th largest MSA. These two airports have copied the Atlanta model, where most of the passengers moving through these places don't actually begin or end their journeys in those cities.

Other busy airports serving smaller cities are Orlando and Las Vegas. I think the reasons are fairly obvious why those places have a lot of passenger traffic.

Lastly, two New York airports rank above DTW.

**MrNittany** · January-26-20, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Detroit Metro has just about as many passengers as it ever did, but it has slid down the rankings for traffic. Metro Detroit's position as the 14th largest MSA is only slightly out of line with Detroit Metro Airport's position as the 19th busiest airport.

Airline consolidation and tourism has propelled some airports serving smaller cities above Detroit Metro. Airlines have much more control over picking winner and loser airports. Charlotte Douglas Airport is the 12th busiest airport, even though Charlotte is the 23rd largest MSA. Denver International is the 5th busiest U.S. airport even though Denver is the 19th largest MSA. These two airports have copied the Atlanta model, where most of the passengers moving through these places don't actually begin or end their journeys in those cities.

Other busy airports serving smaller cities are Orlando and Las Vegas. I think the reasons are fairly obvious why those places have a lot of passenger traffic.

Lastly, two New York airports rank above DTW.

Yep. There are 5 airports that are busier than DTW but are located in a smaller DMA. You named 4 of them, along with the reasons why.

The other is Seattle. Much more geographically isolated than Detroit. Driving isn't really an option to most cities from Seattle. It's also a geographically favorable location from which to launch flights to East Asia [[700 miles closer to Tokyo and Shanghai than LA is, for instance).

DTW is a good airport, but there are structural reasons it's where it is in the passenger count rankings. Short of something truly crazy [[like Delta pulling their hub, which there is no logical reason for them to do, the hub serves valuable traffic flows for them), I doubt it slips below 20 anytime in the next 20 years, though.

**Atticus** · February-02-20, 03:21 PM

DTW’s international numbers are going to take a hit this year with Delta’s decision to cancel the China flights. Not that I blame Delta given the situation, but it will result in a lot less connections for the next few months.

Also the Feds give the region the shaft again in prohibiting Delta from flying the route even if they wanted too. Pretty much every other major airport with significant China passenger service [[LAX, ORD, SFO, SEA, JFK, HNL and even one flight-a-day ATL) made the Fed’s cut of which airports could remain open for business if the airlines wanted to, but not DTW.

As mentioned, all of the airlines have canceled their flights so currently it is a moot point, but the fact DTW was left off the list shows how little regard the Feds give the region, which is unfair given the amount of China flights DTW had.

**313WX** · February-02-20, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Atticus

DTW’s international numbers are going to take a hit this year with Delta’s decision to cancel the China flights. Not that I blame Delta given the situation, but it will result in a lot less connections for the next few months.

Also the Feds give the region the shaft again in prohibiting Delta from flying the route even if they wanted too. Pretty much every other major airport with significant China passenger service [[LAX, ORD, SFO, SEA, JFK, HNL and even one flight-a-day ATL) made the Fed’s cut of which airports could remain open for business if the airlines wanted to, but not DTW.

As mentioned, all of the airlines have canceled their flights so currently it is a moot point, but the fact DTW was left off the list shows how little regard the Feds give the region, which is unfair given the amount of China flights DTW had.

Oh please!!! There's no grand conspiracy to screw over Detroit or DTW.

Logistically, every single airport the FED selected makes much more sense because of either their closer proximity to China or [[in the case of NYC, Atlanta and Chicago) because they have much better domestic flight connections to other US airports.

Besides, Dallas and Houston also aren't participating in this program despite having China connectivity just as good [[if not better than) Detroit. So I guess the FED is giving them the shaft too, huh?