Detroit Metro Airport

[Atticus]

Oh please!!! There's no grand conspiracy to screw over Detroit or DTW.

Logistically, every single airport the FED selected makes much more sense because of either their closer proximity to China or [[in the case of NYC, Atlanta and Chicago) because they have much better domestic flight connections to other US airports.

Besides, Dallas and Houston also aren't participating in this program despite having China connectivity just as good [[if not better than) Detroit. So I guess the FED is giving them the shaft too, huh?

Here is the issue. The list is not geographical. The list is not based on city/metro size. The list isnÂ’t even based on airport size. But most relevant... it is not based on number of flights to China. Basically, it is an arbitrary list of what airports the Feds think are important, and Detroit isnÂ’t one of them, despite having more flights to China than at least one of the chosen airports.

As to your argument about Houston and Dallas, Houston doesnÂ’t even have a US carrier that serves China. Dallas I agree is on par with DTW, but that is the only other airport nationwide with as much US service to China as DTW. So technically both DTW and DFW got the shaft. And while I concede it is a stupid thing to be bothered by, Detroit regularly gets short changed on many fronts these days. So forgive me for being thin skinned. If they had just said LAX/JFK/ORD/SFO, Id have no issue... but once they started going beyond that and excluded DTW... it became a slight.

[313WX]

...As to your argument about Houston and Dallas, Houston doesnÂ’t even have a US carrier that serves China...

Houston is serviced by Air China with flights to Beijing.

Still, my point stands. Logistically, the airports selected are either in closer proximity to China than Detroit [[in terms of distance) or have much better domestic flight connectivity than Detroit.

...Detroit regularly gets short changed on many fronts these days...

If Detroit feels it's regularly getting shafted on many fronts these days, that's a Detroit problem.

The reality is, having a stagnant regional population / economy and falling from the 5th largest metro to 14th largest metro in less than a 1/2 century will tend to diminish a city's relevance on a national / international level.

I don't think such a feeling is valid in this specific case though.

[Gistok]

The reality is, having a stagnant regional population / economy and falling from the 5th largest metro to 14th largest metro in less than a 1/2 century will tend to diminish a city's relevance on a national / international level.

Yeah yeah we get it... we heard you the first time you mentioned this... and the time after that... and all the times after that...

Funny thing is that many cities that jumped ahead of Detroit include your new Atlanta, which has a CSA [[includes 10 MSA) of 6.5 million in an area that includes 39 counties, about 10,500 sq. miles!! That's twice the land area of Detroit's CSA 9 counties [[about 5,800 sq. miles), which statistically only included 5 MSA). .. if you included the MSAs of Toledo, Jackson, Lansing and Saginaw [[which the government doesn't do)... it ads up to over 7 million. Add a Windsor MSA [[or whatever they call it) and it comes up to nearly 7.4 million people in an area that is still smaller than the 39 county Atlanta CSA, but more populous.

Government statistics... they can be manipulated to serve just about anyone's argument!

[313WX]

Yeah yeah we get it... we heard you the first time you mentioned this... and the time after that... and all the times after that...

Funny thing is that many cities that jumped ahead of Detroit include your new Atlanta, which has a CSA [[includes 10 MSA) of 6.5 million in an area that includes 39 counties, about 10,500 sq. miles!! That's twice the land area of Detroit's CSA 9 counties [[about 5,800 sq. miles), which statistically only included 5 MSA). .. if you included the MSAs of Toledo, Jackson, Lansing and Saginaw [[which the government doesn't do)... it ads up to over 7 million. Add a Windsor MSA [[or whatever they call it) and it comes up to nearly 7.4 million people in an area that is still smaller than the 39 county Atlanta CSA, but more populous.

Government statistics... they can be manipulated to serve just about anyone's argument!

What is it exactly that you're trying to convey?

[MikeM]

Sounds like the cities were selected based on having the resources to evaluate and quarantine incoming passengers. Detroit has since been added to the list.

[Atticus]

Sounds like the cities were selected based on having the resources to evaluate and quarantine incoming passengers. Detroit has since been added to the list.

Good find and follow up. My earlier criticism of the process is rescinded.

[iheartthed]

Sounds like the cities were selected based on having the resources to evaluate and quarantine incoming passengers. Detroit has since been added to the list.

I thought the original cities were chosen because they had direct flights to Wuhan? The second round included cities that had quarantine facilities and direct flights to China. Detroit has both so it made sense to be included.

[Ray1936]

As a non-Detroiter, I just have to comment that on my annual visits back to Detroit, I truly enjoy Metro Airport. EZ to get through, busy but not over-crowded as McCarran Airport is here in Vegas, and just great for getting picked up. Getting to the car rentals is a bit of a hassle, but what the heck.

[p1acebo]

As a non-Detroiter, I just have to comment that on my annual visits back to Detroit, I truly enjoy Metro Airport. EZ to get through, busy but not over-crowded as McCarran Airport is here in Vegas, and just great for getting picked up. Getting to the car rentals is a bit of a hassle, but what the heck.

There is another thread on here about DTW, I think the general consensus is that DTW is a great airport [[I have this opinion as well).

[wazootyman]

It appears that the [[final?) numbers for 2019 have been released.

https://www.metroairport.com/sites/d...ics_report.pdf

Overall, an increase of 1.5 million passengers [[+4.3 %).

Since 2009, passenger traffic has increased from 31,357,388 to my estimate of [[since the official number has not yet been released) 36,575,669. That is an increase, on average, of 521,828 more passengers each year [[+16.6% from 2009 to 2019).

The official number for 2019 appears to be 36,769,279, quite a bit better than my rough estimate. That's an increase of 17.3 % since 2019.

It appears that as of November CY 2019, we're at 2,998,346. This shows a modest decline of 0.4 % year-over-year. So, maybe this year we end at 3,250,324 international passengers. From CY 2012 to CY 2019, that is an increase of 15.4 %.

For December 2019, the final number appears to be 3,254,770 [[-0.3 %) for international travel. Slightly better than my estimate.

Overall, seems like a pretty healthy increase, all factors considered. I imagine it'll probably make a minor local headline or two this week.

[wazootyman]

...also, I think this may be an all-time record for DTW. Worth noting.

[Atticus]

It appears that the [[final?) numbers for 2019 have been released.

https://www.metroairport.com/sites/d...ics_report.pdf

Overall, an increase of 1.5 million passengers [[+4.3 %).


The official number for 2019 appears to be 36,769,279, quite a bit better than my rough estimate. That's an increase of 17.3 % since 2019.


For December 2019, the final number appears to be 3,254,770 [[-0.3 %) for international travel. Slightly better than my estimate.

Overall, seems like a pretty healthy increase, all factors considered. I imagine it'll probably make a minor local headline or two this week.

Good information. If trends continue, 2020 should continue to see growth in the Domestic numbers as well. Unfortunately the flight cancellations to China will likely be notable on the international totals for 2020, and thus 2020 total international passengers will probably down yet again sadly. WOW airlines going bankrupt in early 2019 was the main culprit in international passengers going down between 2018 and 2019, and the two Delta flights to China being canceled will hurt totals even more this year.

Hopefully [[for many reasons) the two China flights come back soon, and that this year DTW will have a new international destination announcement to somewhere. That would definitely be enough to make 2021 buck the trend and return the international growth numbers back into the positive.

[JDKeepsmiling]

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...19/4928529002/

So, DTW set a record for passenger traffic in 2019. I guess the doom and gloom is a little misplaced?

[Metro25]

Waiting for 313 to come in here and tell us how this means we're actually in a great depression.

[EastsideAl]

Getting to the car rentals is a bit of a hassle, but what the heck.

I wonder if Metro will ever go to a centralized car rental facility like so many other airports have now? Just in the last year I've flown into Ft. Lauderdale, Albuquerque, and Chicago and either walked or took a short shuttle bus ride to a convenient central car rental facility with all of the rental agency counters and cars in the same indoor facility. Last time I had to rent a car here I had to wait a while for a specific bus and ended up standing out in the middle of a cold snowy parking lot for nearly half an hour.

[JDKeepsmiling]

I wonder if Metro will ever go to a centralized car rental facility like so many other airports have now? Just in the last year I've flown into Ft. Lauderdale, Albuquerque, and Chicago and either walked or took a short shuttle bus ride to a convenient central car rental facility with all of the rental agency counters and cars in the same indoor facility. Last time I had to rent a car here I had to wait a while for a specific bus and ended up standing out in the middle of a cold snowy parking lot for nearly half an hour.

This is in their long-term master plan. I have no idea when they plan on doing it, but I think they recognize that it is a shortcoming.

[Atticus]

This is in their long-term master plan. I have no idea when they plan on doing it, but I think they recognize that it is a shortcoming.

That is probably the number one complaint I hear from business clients flying in from out-of-state, especially in the cold weather months. And it doesn’t matter which agency they rent the car form, Murphy’s Law requires that they freeze on the curb for a good 15 min [[which seems like 45min in February) watching every other company’s shuttle bus drive by. That is another advantage of the consolidation, is that you don’t need separate shuttle buses for each agency, as they all go to the same place.

[Bucket]

Here are the strengths and shortcomings of DTW I've observed as a regular traveler.

Strengths:

1.) Plenty of seating at the gates.

2.) Good overall interior design with tall ceilings that gives a sense of spaciousness. Many older U.S. airports have low ceilings and feel cramped, dark, and dingy.

3.) Three Delta Sky Clubs!

4.) Easy to navigate and get around. Sky Trams are a great way to get from the far gates to and from security, baggage claim and ground transportation.

5.) Highly-professional and friendly TSA staff. Speedy security check-in, especially in Pre-Check.

Shortcomings:

1.) As mentioned before, DTW lacks a speedy transit option to the downtown core. If you look in the back of the Delta Sky Magazine, a map of each Delta hub is listed along with travel times via various travel modes. DTW is one of the only airports listed that does not have a rail link to the center city.

2.) Delta Sky Clubs are great, but the main one near the center of the terminal does not have adequate restroom facilities for its capacity. There can be long lines to use the facilities during peak times.

3.) The traffic flow in and out of the airport by car can be confusing and kind of a mess.

4.) For some reason, the FAST bus makes not one, but two stops, at the McNamara Terminal. The bus essentially loops around the airport twice to make two stops at McNamara. This needlessly adds another 10-15 minutes or so to the trip from the airport to downtown.

FAST buses should run more frequently. Every 15 minutes at least.

There should be an additional route that runs express between DTW and downtown nonstop. If we had that, maybe we wouldn't even need to invest in a rail connection.

Overall, we have a great airport. Like the DIA, it's a fantastic asset. Remembering what it was like flying out of Detroit before the new terminals were built, I'm very grateful that the region made the investment to make DTW world-class.

[Atticus]

Here are the strengths and shortcomings of DTW I've observed as a regular traveler.

Strengths:

1.) Plenty of seating at the gates.

2.) Good overall interior design with tall ceilings that gives a sense of spaciousness. Many older U.S. airports have low ceilings and feel cramped, dark, and dingy.

3.) Three Delta Sky Clubs!

4.) Easy to navigate and get around. Sky Trams are a great way to get from the far gates to and from security, baggage claim and ground transportation.

5.) Highly-professional and friendly TSA staff. Speedy security check-in, especially in Pre-Check.

Shortcomings:

1.) As mentioned before, DTW lacks a speedy transit option to the downtown core. If you look in the back of the Delta Sky Magazine, a map of each Delta hub is listed along with travel times via various travel modes. DTW is one of the only airports listed that does not have a rail link to the center city.

2.) Delta Sky Clubs are great, but the main one near the center of the terminal does not have adequate restroom facilities for its capacity. There can be long lines to use the facilities during peak times.

3.) The traffic flow in and out of the airport by car can be confusing and kind of a mess.

4.) For some reason, the FAST bus makes not one, but two stops, at the McNamara Terminal. The bus essentially loops around the airport twice to make two stops at McNamara. This needlessly adds another 10-15 minutes or so to the trip from the airport to downtown.

FAST buses should run more frequently. Every 15 minutes at least.

There should be an additional route that runs express between DTW and downtown nonstop. If we had that, maybe we wouldn't even need to invest in a rail connection.

Overall, we have a great airport. Like the DIA, it's a fantastic asset. Remembering what it was like flying out of Detroit before the new terminals were built, I'm very grateful that the region made the investment to make DTW world-class.

Good assessment. Regarding lounges, Delta is adding a 5th SkyClub this summer to DTW. For those who remember when Lufthansa briefly flew out of the McNamara Terminal, that old Lufthansa lounge is where it will be located. Being just across the atrium from the central lounge, hopefully the new lounge will help with the crowds you mentioned.

On the topic of lounges, another area for improvement would be getting some more lounges in the North Terminal. It would be nice to see an AA lounge for OneWorld flyers, and an independent lounge or Centurion lounge there.

As for the FAST buses, I have come to the conclusion that those mostly exist to serve airport workers and not flyers. And I agree about the lack of an affordable, fast, and frequent connection to the CBD transit option. It needs to be rail though, and not a conventional bus, to help make the region appear more progressive.

[DTWflyer]

You can toss any hope or comparison of passenger numbers for 2020 out the window with the impact of coronavirus.
DL TPAC flights to PVG, PEK suspended. ICN reductions. Potential for more near-term reductions, many companies putting a freeze in for international travel in the near term, and economic concerns.
This isn't just a DTW things, its everyone.

Air travel rises and falls with the economy, and of course black swan events like 9/11 and irrational fear of pandemics.

[DTWflyer]

In the DTW long-range master plan, they have identified the location of a Consolidated Rental Car Facility [[CRCR) in the area immediately north of I-94, bounded by Middlebelt, Smith, I-94 and Airlines Parking.

Its not even budgeted, funded, or even really in any sort of planning stage at this point. Land has been allocated for the purpose of a CRCF.
They can't build in the current area due to potential height obstructions within the runway clear zone. The proposed area would have better access to/from I-94 anyways.
There are pros and cons to CRCFs. Some work well, but some like BWI or PHX are located in ridiculous locations far away from the airport itself.

It will probably happen at some point at least after all the near/medium term projects are address to repair/replace existing infrastructure, runway/taxiway airfield projects, and other less sexy projects like utility infrastructure. They are finally just about done tearing down the Smith terminal and converting that area into a RON parking area and deicing pad.

Supposedly DTW is scheduled to get a new FAA ATC Tower in the next few years.

[Bigdd]

I onder how Metro is going to fare after this covid business?

An internal memo today from the CEO of Delta says they're retiring their entire MD88 and MD90 fleets [[old planes, but great for high altitude airports),.. AND retiring their entire fleet of Boeing 777's early [[some not very old).

I think they're burning through $50 million a day?

They have around 14,000 pilots, and they believe they'll only need 1/2 of that, so they're going to be retiring early, furloughing and laying off some 7,500 pilots,.. and who knows how many ground crew, flight attendants etc.


This is bigger news here than in most parts of the country as Detroit Metro is a Delta hub.

[Jimaz]

The surreal experience of flying during the pandemic

[401don]

I onder how Metro is going to fare after this covid business?

An internal memo today from the CEO of Delta says they're retiring their entire MD88 and MD90 fleets [[old planes, but great for high altitude airports),.. AND retiring their entire fleet of Boeing 777's early [[some not very old).

I think they're burning through $50 million a day?

They have around 14,000 pilots, and they believe they'll only need 1/2 of that, so they're going to be retiring early, furloughing and laying off some 7,500 pilots,.. and who knows how many ground crew, flight attendants etc.


This is bigger news here than in most parts of the country as Detroit Metro is a Delta hub.

Boeing hasn't sold a single plane the last 2 months and many of their existing orders have been cancelled. I imagine the used plane lots have some great deals.