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  1. #1

    Default Tesla Now Worth More than GM and Ford Combined

    Go figure. A company that delivered only 367,000 vehicles last year, operated at a loss, and paid no dividend has a market capitalization [= value of all its shares] greater than GM and Ford's combined.

    GM and Ford produce a combined 13 million vehicles, are both highly profitable and pay fat dividends [4.15% & 6.2%].

    https://markets.businessinsider.com/...0-1-1028806569

  2. #2

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    Investor infatuation with Tesla.

  3. #3

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    Amazon didn't show consistent, sizable profits until 2004. I'm sure some folks were saying some of the same things about Amazon when comparing them to traditional retailers. The value came from investing speculating that Amazon was going to be HUGE. They were right. It's slaying and putting so many traditional retailers into the grave.

    Tesla could potentially be in the same position that Amazon was from the 90's leading up to the mid 00's. They've got the groundwork laid. They understand the business model. Currently the traditional market is dominant, but Tesla is position for what the FUTURE market will need.

    Perhaps 20 years from now we'll look back and realize why Tesla became the #1 auto manufacturer in the world. We'll laugh at all the intersections that just a couple decades back had gas stations on two or three corners all look different now.

    Or who knows, maybe Tesla goes belly up and the big three take us into the electric future!?

  4. #4

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    FCA, Ford and GM have brick and mortar assets: Plants. Real estate. Manufacturing equipment. Land. Inventories. Buildings. Cash. Receivables from their captive finance arms. Marketable securities.
    Last edited by Pat001; January-09-20 at 02:22 PM.

  5. #5

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    [QUOTE=Lowell;585011]Go figure. A company that delivered only 367,000 vehicles last year, operated at a loss, and paid no dividend has a market capitalization [= value of all its shares] greater than GM and Ford's combined.

    In part, it's because Tesla has, and continues to be valued as a tech company, rather than an automobile company. Its stock is a little more resistant to investor pessimism in the auto sector.

  6. #6

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    The future isn't looking that great for Tesla, IMO. It is hard to see how they are not forced to align with a larger automaker, or be taken over by one, in order to stay in the game now that all of the major players are getting into electric vehicles. Tesla's revenue is barely better than 10% of Ford or GM.

  7. #7

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    Call me crazy, but I'm still holding on to my Packard stock!

    Might be shedding my Studebaker shares soon, though, if things don't turn around....

  8. #8

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    As one who drives from NV to MI and back often, what good is an electric car to me? Just sayin'.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
    The future isn't looking that great for Tesla, IMO. It is hard to see how they are not forced to align with a larger automaker, or be taken over by one, in order to stay in the game now that all of the major players are getting into electric vehicles. Tesla's revenue is barely better than 10% of Ford or GM.

    Tesla is today what the tech companies were back in thier early days,funded with government grants in order to advance battery technology,the space program,and high speed rail.

    By design they were not engineered or formed to make money,yet,thier stock is geared to holding and looking at 10-20 years down the road.

    The value will be in the patents of the advanced technology in themselves.

    Thats my theory anyways.The lottery ruined this country,to many people looking to make fast money,stocks are not geared for short term.

    They are not really a car company,the cars are just platforms in order to advance technology,they charge for them to recoup some of the costs and materials.

    They are just working prototypes and has little to do with the actual car.

    You cannot force them into the other manufacturers because they are a RD company,that actually equals all the other manufacturers RD combined.

    They devote everything to RD,move them to say for instance GM,then you have that corporate politics to deal with,pension funds come due,money gets moved from RD etc.

    Thie mission as a company is strictly RD (research and development) everything they produce means nothing in terms of an actual unencumbered manufacturer.
    Last edited by Richard; January-09-20 at 03:46 PM.

  10. #10

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    A company that lost almost a billion dollars last year lmfao. I'm sure this bubble will end well.
    Last edited by Metro25; January-09-20 at 10:26 PM.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Tesla is today what the tech companies were back in thier early days,funded with government grants in order to advance battery technology,the space program,and high speed rail.
    Tesla is far past being a new company that just needs more investment cash to get things flowing. Tesla is middle aged as far as startups go and they continue to prove that that have no clue how scale basic production of vehicles, what GM and Ford or Volkswagen do in their sleep. Tesla has enjoyed a complete monopoly in their niche and still manage to fumble spectacularly. What happens when every car company and their mother comes out with electric cars in the next few years here?

    There is so much fundamentally wrong with Tesla without even getting into the charlatan maniac who heads the company and I'm not convinced whatever battery patents that have are more valuable than the entire auto industry.
    Last edited by Metro25; January-09-20 at 10:24 PM.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray1936 View Post
    As one who drives from NV to MI and back often, what good is an electric car to me? Just sayin'.
    For someone who takes a road trip from the Detroit area to Traverse City it doesn’t make sense either. 200 miles up there, 200 miles back, drive around up there and go hunting around for a charging station. This is with 2.50 gas available on every street corner. I’ll pass on the electric option for now.

  13. #13

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    IIRC, Gamestop had a bigger market value than GM during the recession.
    That just blew me away at the time.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metro25 View Post
    Tesla is far past being a new company that just needs more investment cash to get things flowing. Tesla is middle aged as far as startups go and they continue to prove that that have no clue how scale basic production of vehicles, what GM and Ford or Volkswagen do in their sleep. Tesla has enjoyed a complete monopoly in their niche and still manage to fumble spectacularly. What happens when every car company and their mother comes out with electric cars in the next few years here?

    There is so much fundamentally wrong with Tesla without even getting into the charlatan maniac who heads the company and I'm not convinced whatever battery patents that have are more valuable than the entire auto industry.

    I am no no electric car expert,so I am guessing that it is a bit more complicated then sticking a battery in a car and going.

    There has to be a lot of little widgets that connect it all together so I guess a future company would have the choice of spending time and millions inventing a new widget or paying Tesla for thier existing technology.

    It is tested and proven and ready to go.

    They also have a giga battery factory that produces the storage batteries for homes and automobiles,home battery storage system sells for $3500 and sold out as soon as it was introduced.

    They devolved a battery swap system that you can pull up to and under 90 seconds your depleted battery is swapped out for a fresh one.You cannot fill your gas tank up in 90 seconds.

    They have the charging infrastructure in place across the country.

    They developed a robotic arm system where you just pull up to a charging station and the arm comes out and hooks up to charge so you do not even have to get out of the car.

    They are into heavy trucks and busses and are already testing driverless trucks in Florida.

    They have their super high speed rail thingy that does not ride on rails.

    So if you are putting out a new electric car are you really going to spend billions on the infrastructure and batteries just to support it?

    Look at the history when auto manufacturers first started,they assembled cars using components from other manufacturers or they were like ford and spent billions on getting started.

    The guy that invented the delay wiper made millions and still gets a cut,that is only one aspect of over 15,000 parts in a car.

    I do not own their stock or car but you can kinda see where this is going.

  15. #15

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    On a recent trip to Toronto I averaged 50 mpg in my VW 1.4 liter turbo Jetta. It has decent power and acceleration. I am just fine with gas.

    BTW - do hydrogen fuel cell engines have a future? That always seemed like the real game changer to me.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray1936 View Post
    As one who drives from NV to MI and back often, what good is an electric car to me? Just sayin'.
    By the time this decade is over I don't think there will be any problem driving an electric car coast to coast.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by GPCharles View Post
    On a recent trip to Toronto I averaged 50 mpg in my VW 1.4 liter turbo Jetta. It has decent power and acceleration. I am just fine with gas.

    BTW - do hydrogen fuel cell engines have a future? That always seemed like the real game changer to me.
    1980s VW had a diesel pick up that was 50 mpg,I had a 1989 Honda crx hf 1.3 liter that got over 50 mpg on the highway and even a 1989 Volvo turbo SW that got over 40 mpg on the highway.

    Most of the European cars get over 50 mpg but after switching everybody over to diesel England is now banning them.

    They are also implementing a carbon fuel tax that will in essence force people into electric cars.

    The thing is money to pay for the roads is raised in a large part in fuel taxes,so how do they raise those funds with electric cars?

    I agree on the hydrogen aspect and think that the whole electric car aspect is going to be short lived in comparison,they are going to have to either figure out how to raise road taxes or raise the vehicle above the surface.

    The US is the tricky one,a lot of countries you can go 200 miles in either direction and be at the border,we have to much distance in between cities.

    I think it would take at least 30 years to convert over let alone figure out how to replace revenues lost from the massive infrastructure based around the fossil fuel demand.

    The funnest thing right now is seeing a portable electric car charging station powered by a diesel generator.

    The Tesla Hyperloop train is supposed to be 760 mph so they could link car carrier trains between cities.

    Even more so what is being developed through their SpaceX program we could see more interest in levitating cars,unless they cryogenics me I still get to enjoy my fossil fuel toys before they are banned anyways.

    For $379 a month you can lease a Honda Clarity hydrogen car with a 360 mile range.

    https://automobiles.honda.com/clarity-fuel-cell
    Last edited by Richard; January-10-20 at 12:55 PM.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
    By the time this decade is over I don't think there will be any problem driving an electric car coast to coast.
    We're already there.

    Here's a really good video that explains all about charging, charging speeds, charging interfaces, public charging, and range:


  19. #19

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    The argument of where will I charge my car is just tired and shows you haven't done your homework. TBF, I wouldn't expect a warm reception to Tesla in a region that is still so reliant on GM, Ford, and FCA. This is a map of Tesla's supercharger network, which is continuously expanding. There are countless additional charging stations all over the country that aren't affiliated with Tesla.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
    The future isn't looking that great for Tesla, IMO. It is hard to see how they are not forced to align with a larger automaker, or be taken over by one, in order to stay in the game now that all of the major players are getting into electric vehicles. Tesla's revenue is barely better than 10% of Ford or GM.
    Don't know how true it is, but I've heard the use of quality materials, are lacking in the Tesla, especially interior components. How much do they cost anyway?

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mind field View Post
    The argument of where will I charge my car is just tired and shows you haven't done your homework. TBF, I wouldn't expect a warm reception to Tesla in a region that is still so reliant on GM, Ford, and FCA. This is a map of Tesla's supercharger network, which is continuously expanding. There are countless additional charging stations all over the country that aren't affiliated with Tesla.
    I've seen plenty of them in the Detroit area, so they must be making inroads in this mainly domestic market. OTOH, I've seen a lot of other foreign automakers are selling well here. Not to say Tesla is a foreign car. Where is it built?

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickbak View Post
    Call me crazy, but I'm still holding on to my Packard stock!

    Might be shedding my Studebaker shares soon, though, if things don't turn around....
    Good luck with that !! I don't ever think those nameplates will resurface anytime soon LOL.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mind field View Post
    The argument of where will I charge my car is just tired and shows you haven't done your homework. TBF, I wouldn't expect a warm reception to Tesla in a region that is still so reliant on GM, Ford, and FCA. This is a map of Tesla's supercharger network, which is continuously expanding. There are countless additional charging stations all over the country that aren't affiliated with Tesla.
    Driving a Tesla from Las Vegas to Detroit will add 9 hours during the trip when allowing for charging and one would be restricted to the beaten path.

    It not the point it cannot be done but who plans a trip dependent on a charging station and it is not like you can call AAA for a jump start.

    https://www.tesla.com/trips#/?v=MS_2...27,-83.0457538

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Driving a Tesla from Las Vegas to Detroit will add 9 hours during the trip when allowing for charging and one would be restricted to the beaten path.

    It not the point it cannot be done but who plans a trip dependent on a charging station and it is not like you can call AAA for a jump start.

    https://www.tesla.com/trips#/?v=MS_2...27,-83.0457538

    I agree. What's the point of saving gas, if it adds more time to the trip to charge the battery? I'm not all in on electric vehicles at all. I hope the automakers don't dumb down, and make all vehicles electric, like they just decided to dump sedans in favor of Trucks, Crossovers and SUV's.
    Last edited by Cincinnati_Kid; January-11-20 at 09:50 AM.

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid View Post
    Don't know how true it is, but I've heard the use of quality materials, are lacking in the Tesla, especially interior components. How much do they cost anyway?
    They are $35,000 to $125,000 a nice S model around $85,000 0 to 60 mph in 2.5 seconds.

    There is a showroom a couple of block from my house and the interior does not seem to be any different then other US made models quality wise.

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