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  1. #26

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    And people wonder why our democracy is falling to shit. Grown adults gobbling up unattributed videos and attacking official sources, like a kid watching MTV.

  2. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLemur View Post
    You're believing b.s. on youtube and I'm giving you official sources.
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...2tfGayRvmSxNA4

    Its easy to construct false narratives when they're not built on trusted organizations, Richard. You're playing with fantasy at best, Russian propaganda at worse. I stand with our intelligence agencies. You can support a random video on youtube with no author.
    So all you did was add one more to the list of taking points that you cannot even confirm yourself.

    Name the 17 intelligence agencies

    Name your facts that back up your claim that Trump is beholden to Putin.

    Name your “trusted organizations”

    Until you can do that,you are doing the exact same thing that you are accusing others of doing.

    Your trusted source was started by Hillary-Clinton claiming 17 intelligence agencies and parroted and quoted by the news.

    Simple enough to name them,they had to come up with the number 17,so go to your trusted source and ask them to name them.

    Simple enough.
    Last edited by Richard; December-10-19 at 05:35 PM.

  3. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLemur View Post
    And people wonder why our democracy is falling to shit. Grown adults gobbling up unattributed videos and attacking official sources, like a kid watching MTV.
    Sorry news flash,we are not a democracy.

    Our republic has issues when people are easily led around and parrot what they are told and believing what they want to.

    What makes your source “official” and others unattributed because you do not agree with them? That is not your “democracy” that is 1937 Germany.
    Last edited by Richard; December-10-19 at 05:45 PM.

  4. #29

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    One thing is for sure. The Russians got exactly what they wanted.

    They could not compete with us economically or militarily so they pushed a corrupt, lying, hate spewing spoiled brat into the WH then sit back and watch us destroy ourselves from within.

    From the Russian perspective it was a brilliant play.

  5. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit View Post
    One thing is for sure. The Russians got exactly what they wanted.

    They could not compete with us economically or militarily so they pushed a corrupt, lying, hate spewing spoiled brat into the WH then sit back and watch us destroy ourselves from within.

    From the Russian perspective it was a brilliant play.
    Outside of embracing technology the Russians have done the same thing they have for the last 150 years.

    Support and fund the American communist/socialist party so they can spread discourse and disrupt the function of the United States government.

    They have achieved the spreading of discourse and the ongoing attempt at disrupting the function of the government but fortunately we have a strong brat in the White House that did not and does not succumb and allow it to effect the running of the country.

    It has nothing to do with competing with us military or economic,military it is about deterrents.

    They do what they do and we do what we do.

    In 2010 China rounded up 30 US spies and operatives and executed them after finding a weak link in the CIAs computer system.

    You do not think that we sent or had operatives in Hong Kong in front of the current unrest?

    Russia was no different then the thousands of experts in this country that had no clue who was going to win the 2016 election,they knew there was 2 candidates,they knew Hillary was a war monger,they did what they do and spread discourse along both parties.

    Trump was a wild card,they knew Hillary was a war monger but for all they knew Trump could have been worse and more unpredictable.

    Who would you bank on,somebody like Hillary that you know already how she operates or a wild card?

    Hilliary would have been the safe bet,if they were going to back anybody,but thier objective is not to back one singular party because you do not know the end result until the day of the election.

    If they were going to just back one party it would have been Hillary because of her history of vindictive behavior when it comes to countries that do not agree with her and her willingness to war.

    So they would have wanted to stay of her good side.

    They do not need to select a president in thier favor,they need to slowly put thier form of government in government agencies in the form of senators and congressmen and even mayors because they are the ones that control the vote when it comes to the presidency.

    It is like China who said they will control the world,Not tomorrow and not by war but death by 1000 cuts.

    Little by little,year by Year they are reaching that goal the old fashioned way,by buying it with the money we provide.

    People seem to forget about the guy that was busted in Miami that was originating the majority of fake news spread on social media,he did not pick a side because he did it simply because he made lots of money in ad revenue.

    The Russian are not and never will be our friends but a lot of the Russian narrative is pushed to draw at the strings of the cold war voting base,and besides you guys have your 17 intelligence agencies hard at work as your bible of thousands of discussions,so why are the Russians even something to worry about?

    Those 17 intelligence agencies have your back against the Russians,you have confidence in them so why even continue to address the Russian narrative?
    Last edited by Richard; December-11-19 at 09:17 AM.

  6. #31

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    Prolly cuz your Chump said a number of times how he wished he could have the same "freedom" the Chinese and Russian leaders had to conduct affairs.

  7. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit View Post
    One thing is for sure. The Russians got exactly what they wanted.

    They could not compete with us economically or militarily so they pushed a corrupt, lying, hate spewing spoiled brat into the WH then sit back and watch us destroy ourselves from within.

    From the Russian perspective it was a brilliant play.
    Thanks to Obama, Biden, Kerry, and Hilary's failed foreign policy, Russia did get what they wanted. Overthrowing the elected government of Ukraine allowed Russia to move in and occupy Ukraine in the confusion. Trying to overthrow Assad by strengthening ISIS' allies backfired. Instead of Assad capitulating, he invited Russia in to set up a naval base and field its army.

    The Democrats' ongoing coup attempt must indeed be a watching spectacle Russia and Chinese leaders are enjoying.

  8. #33

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    Hah! Mean o' TRUMPET taking away all the FREE STUFF!

    The far-left will gib it all back to the downtrodden' - they NICE.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarnellSpriggs View Post
    TRUMP is tryna diz-con-neck OHBAMA-FONE!

  9. #34

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    Actually the free phone came in 1985 then to cell phones in 2005.

    When they removed the pay phones to stop the drug dealers from useing them the poor and elderly had no way to call in an emergency or keep in touch with family.

    What they do is add a charge to everybody’s cell phone and that money goes to lifelink who runs the program.

    The government really has no role in it.

  10. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zacha341 View Post
    Hah! Mean o' TRUMPET taking away all the FREE STUFF!

    The far-left will gib it all back to the downtrodden' - they NICE.
    Zacha341... our newbie Darnell was posting bizarre comments, and I think he went Pfffft.... gone.

  11. #36

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    ^ yea we skipped bizarre long ago and went directly into the twilight zone
    Last edited by Richard; December-11-19 at 07:22 PM.

  12. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by oladub View Post
    Thanks to Obama, Biden, Kerry, and Hilary's failed foreign policy, Russia did get what they wanted. Overthrowing the elected government of Ukraine allowed Russia to move in and occupy Ukraine in the confusion. Trying to overthrow Assad by strengthening ISIS' allies backfired. Instead of Assad capitulating, he invited Russia in to set up a naval base and field its army.

    The Democrats' ongoing coup attempt must indeed be a watching spectacle Russia and Chinese leaders are enjoying.
    Huh What?

    Victor Yanukovych is and was responsible for the revolt in the Ukraine in 2014 and he surely was on someone’s payroll but it certainly was not America’s obviously. Duh.

    Blaming Obama for Syria becoming a disaster is oversimplified partisan bullshit. Bush 43s intervention in Iraq is in massive play on that issue.

    How about a more recent relevant fact like Russian mercenaries attacked American forces on February 7, 2018 in Syria. We all know how Trump decided to deal with that. Silence and a fairly undignified retreat that sold out the only allies we have ever found in the Arab world who could fight effectively on the ground was his answer. So far all Trump has demonstrated is he is Putin’s bitch. We all know how much he admires him and all.

    Frankly Oladub, I expect better stuff from you. Richard? God no, just rambling made up partisan BS, but you? In the past you have made some points that have been insightful in failed American foreign policy that was not rooted in partisan politics. It would take the fun out of it if you go down that road. Objectivity is required to have intelligent debate on foreign policy.
    Last edited by ABetterDetroit; December-11-19 at 10:08 PM.

  13. #38

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    ^ your claim that world events are not bipartisan eliminates you from the very discussion of an objective intelligent debate.

    "Obama's first national security strategy only mentioned Russia as a potential partner, never as a possible threat," Kroenig said. "He promised in the famous ‘hot mic’ episode that he would have ‘flexibility’ to make concessions on missile defense after the (2012) election. He refused to intervene in Syria in part because his team feared direct conflict with Russia. He refused to provide lethal aid to Ukraine fearing escalation with Russia. And he did not develop a serious strategy to deter the threat of Russian nuclear ‘de-escalation’ strikes."


    One could say Obama conspired with Putin to win the 2012 elections by useing missile defense and agreeing not to provide Ukraine the patriot missles needed to defend themselves against Russian aggression.


    There’s a crucial dividing line for U.S. policy toward Russia — early 2014, when Russia annexed the Ukrainian region of Crimea. Before that, the United States sought common ground with Russia. After that, Russia was seen in a more adversarial way.
    During the early years of Obama’s presidency, and especially during the Russian presidential interregnum of Dmitry Medvedev, the United States sought a "reset" with Russia and managed to hammer out several accomplishments, including a nuclear-arms deal.

    American Presidents were chummy with Russia before the Crimea.


    Thing is they were chummy with Russia before Putin when Russia was actually controlled by the very people that raided the country and became billionaires,the ones Putin has been going after ever sense.

    Billionaires that were controlling world markets in energy and minerals.

    The same companies that family member are on the board of Pelosi,Shiff,Biden etc.

    If you think everything is not political or bipartisan your delusional.

    It is all about power and money on the world stage and people trying to retain it and acquire it.

    It is entirely possible to be chummy with somebody in the National Interest or in the bigger picture that some are un able to see and still stand your ground when necessary.

    But I am like you abetterdetroit screw Russia ,let’s just go to war with them and solve the problem once and for all.

    What have we got to lose,Sense you all about putting millions of lives at risk because you Personally feel triggered that Trump appears to be chummy with Putin.

    By default you could say NATO and the rest of the world is chummy with Russia because they never intervened when they took Crimea.

    Sure the kicked them out of the G8 and put sanctions on them .

    BFD

    What they did was weighed what a international war with Russia and thier allies would have created verses the value of Crimea in the world.

    Russia needed that port in order to sell oil and natural gas to the rest of the world,Namely Germany.

    Germany would have done the exact same thing as everybody else does when it comes to oil and energy,do what it takes to acquire it.

    Foreign policy is not formed in a tiny circle,it is a much bigger picture and each step involves hundreds of countries putting billions of real lives at risk in the process.

    Waaaaa Trump is chummy with Putin.

  14. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by oladub View Post
    The Democrats' ongoing coup attempt must indeed be a watching spectacle Russia and Chinese leaders are enjoying.
    Do tell, which Article and Section of the U.S. Constitution have the Democrats violated so far in the Impeachment Process? Because, silly me, I thought that Impeachment WAS a Constitutionally-outlined process for removing a sitting President from office and therefore cannot be a coup as coups are by definition illegal. So i must be mistaken here, and am therefore politely requesting that you oladub show me the part of the U.S. Constitution that is currently being violated. Can you? I would very much love to see it. Article and Section please.

    I also have a vague recollection of this whole process playing out before in our lifetime...like 20 years ago...by a Republican-controlled House against a Democratic President...that resulted in no conviction. Coup though, right oladub? Because you wouldn't be a massive HYPOCRITE or anything and hold a double standard that impeachment of a Democratic President is A-OK but impeachment of a Republican President is an illegal coup even thought the process is fucking identical. But you're not that type of person, Oladub, so I can only assume that you viewed the GOP impeachment of Bill Clinton to be an illegal coup as well?

  15. #40

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    Yes AJ, but wasn't the main article for Clinton's impeachment more grave than Chump's?

    Clinton had perjured himself by lying about a blowjob. Serious matter.

    4 years of Whitewater investigation that brought up no charges against the Clintons. Upwards of 30 million dollars of hard working American tax payer money up the wazoo.

  16. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit View Post
    Huh What?

    Victor Yanukovych is and was responsible for the revolt in the Ukraine in 2014 and he surely was on someone’s payroll but it certainly was not America’s obviously. Duh.
    Blaming Obama for Syria becoming a disaster is oversimplified partisan bullshit. Bush 43s intervention in Iraq is in massive play on that issue.
    -Yanukovych was elected as the President Of Ukraine in 2010.He was overthrown with the help of the CIA under Obama. That's what I said. Not blaming Obama, McCain, and the like would be a disaster and oversimplified partisan bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit View Post
    How about a more recent relevant fact like Russian mercenaries attacked American forces on February 7, 2018 in Syria. We all know how Trump decided to deal with that. Silence and a fairly undignified retreat that sold out the only allies we have ever found in the Arab world who could fight effectively on the ground was his answer. So far all Trump has demonstrated is he is Putin’s bitch. We all know how much he admires him and all.
    -The elephant in the room is that the Obama administration helped overthrow an elected government. These other things, I've mentioned Russian planes shadowing NATO planes, are a result. Detente was destroyed. I want to start the process of rebuilding detente while you go on like John MaCain. It isn't just Obama. Neocon Republicans went along for the ride.

    "America is with you," Senator John McCain told demonstrators then, standing shoulder to shoulder with the leader of the far-right Svoboda party as the US ambassador haggled with the state department over who would make up the new Ukrainian government.

    Yes, we do know how Trump dealt with a Russian mercenary attack. U.S. forces killed 200 Russian mercenaries. I'm surprised by Russia's so far sanguine response. By other accounts it was 200 Russian mercenaries killed out of 500 deaths. That's the sort of thing that could get out of hands and provoke a much larger Russian-U.S. conflict.

    Quote Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit View Post
    Frankly Oladub, I expect better stuff from you. Richard? God no, just rambling made up partisan BS, but you? In the past you have made some points that have been insightful in failed American foreign policy that was not rooted in partisan politics. It would take the fun out of it if you go down that road. Objectivity is required to have intelligent debate on foreign policy.
    You need to read more.

    How and Why the US Government Perpetrated the 2014 Coup in Ukraine

    Ukraine: how America's coup machine has destroyed democracy worldwide since 1953 There's lots of room for blaming Republicans too.

    Four Years of Ukraine and the Myths of Maidan
    Why theUkraine Crisis Is the West’s Fault-The Liberal Delusions that provoked Putin etc..



  17. #42

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    True.
    Paul Manafort, gen. Flynn, Ukraine call, obstruction of Justice nah no reason to carrying out impeachment. But Clinton saying he didn't have sexual relations with an intern. IMPEAH.

    Richard and Olaub, this man is dripping with guilty charges and helping break up NATO for Russia s gain. Obama had Zero scandals, was squeaky clean if not perfect. This man is a new low in our history. Look at my link for the 17 intelligence agencies. But Trump maybe believes Putin - lol. He should go back to running a hotel chain and scamming veterans for his campaign.


    Quote Originally Posted by aj3647 View Post
    Do tell, which Article and Section of the U.S. Constitution have the Democrats violated so far in the Impeachment Process? Because, silly me, I thought that Impeachment WAS a Constitutionally-outlined process for removing a sitting President from office and therefore cannot be a coup as coups are by definition illegal. So i must be mistaken here, and am therefore politely requesting that you oladub show me the part of the U.S. Constitution that is currently being violated. Can you? I would very much love to see it. Article and Section please.

    I also have a vague recollection of this whole process playing out before in our lifetime...like 20 years ago...by a Republican-controlled House against a Democratic President...that resulted in no conviction. Coup though, right oladub? Because you wouldn't be a massive HYPOCRITE or anything and hold a double standard that impeachment of a Democratic President is A-OK but impeachment of a Republican President is an illegal coup even thought the process is fucking identical. But you're not that type of person, Oladub, so I can only assume that you viewed the GOP impeachment of Bill Clinton to be an illegal coup as well?

  18. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by aj3647 View Post
    Originally Posted by oladubThe Democrats' ongoing coup attempt must indeed be a watching spectacle Russia and Chinese leaders are enjoying.

    Do tell, which Article and Section of the U.S. Constitution have the Democrats violated so far in the Impeachment Process
    It just cracks me up how the right-wingers can never defend their positions except by parroting the latest talking points from Donny's propaganda team. It's like they do not even understand what words like "coup" actually mean.

  19. #44

  20. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by rb336 View Post
    It just cracks me up how the right-wingers can never defend their positions except by parroting the latest talking points from Donny's propaganda team. It's like they do not even understand what words like "coup" actually mean.
    Perhaps you or aj could point out where I ever claimed that "Democrats violated so far in the Impeachment Process". Democrats have every right to conduct witch hunts.

    I'll go with google dictionary's definition of coup.
    coup d'é·tat
    another term for coup (sense 1).



    • synonyms: seizure of power, coup, overthrow, takeover, ousting, deposition, regime change; bloodless coup, palace revolution;
      rebellion, revolt, insurrection, mutiny, revolution, insurgence, insurgency, rising, rioting, riot;
      jacquerie;
      putsch
      "the coup d'état which brought the general to power"












    My preference is elections. In 11 months, soon enough, there will be a presidential election if you want to leave it to the people. I don't see anything wrong if Trump exercised his fiduciary responsibility to determine if there were improprieties with the Bidens or anyone else. As Executive, he shouldn't be handing out money to crooks. If Biden got knocked out, there were still 20 other candidates and 330M Americans who would benefit including Trump.

  21. #46

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    I'll go with google dictionary's definition of coup. coup d'é·tat
    another term for coup (sense 1).




    • synonyms: seizure of power, coup, overthrow, takeover, ousting, deposition, regime change; bloodless coup, palace revolution;
      rebellion, revolt, insurrection, mutiny, revolution, insurgence, insurgency, rising, rioting, riot;
      jacquerie;
      putsch
      "the coup d'état which brought the general to power"

    That's not a definition, genius. Those are synonyms. Do you really not know the difference between a definition and a synonym? It literally says the word "synonyms" next to it. Jesus fucking Christ...

    Here's the actual DEFINITION of a coup d'etat, from dictionary.com.

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/coup-d-etat

    noun, plural coups d'é·tat [koo dey-tahz; French koo dey-ta] .

    a sudden and decisive action in politics, especially one resulting in a change of government illegally or by force.


    So again, I would like to hear how the Constitutionally-outlined process of Impeachment constitutes a coup d'etat, and how the GOP impeachment of Bill Clinton in the 90's didn't count as a coup d'etat but this one does.

  22. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by aj3647 View Post
    That's not a definition, genius. Those are synonyms. Do you really not know the difference between a definition and a synonym? It literally says the word "synonyms" next to it. Jesus fucking Christ...

    Here's the actual DEFINITION of a coup d'etat, from dictionary.com.

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/coup-d-etat

    noun, plural coups d'é·tat [koo dey-tahz; French koo dey-ta] .

    a sudden and decisive action in politics, especially one resulting in a change of government illegally or by force.


    So again, I would like to hear how the Constitutionally-outlined process of Impeachment constitutes a coup d'etat, and how the GOP impeachment of Bill Clinton in the 90's didn't count as a coup d'etat but this one does.
    aj, In post 39 you wrote, "Do tell, which Article and Section of the U.S. Constitution have the Democrats violated so far in the Impeachment Process?" Then you and rb went on as if I had written that Democrats violated the Constitution with their impeachment show. "Democrats have every right to conduct witch hunts." Another of your sycophants has since joined your coup chorus.

    By the way, the definition of coup you provided read, "
    a sudden and decisive action in politics, especially one resulting in a change of government illegally or by force." I think you underlined "illegally or by force" but please notice the word "especially". "Especially" suggests that "not necessarily" is also a possibility. So a coup by even your definition can also be "a sudden and decisive action in politics, especially one resulting in a change of government" but without illegality or force. Isn't that just what democrats are up to?

    Answer: I didn't accuse Democrats of violating the Constitution with their impeachment show. You made that up. I did, however, refer to the impeachment as part of a coup. Again, you must read more carefully or at least try not to twist my words or, as we see, other people join in saying stupid things based on your comments. We just went through over two years of Mueller hearings. Didn't you once sort of suggest that Mueller was going to get the goods on Trump too? If and when the coup gambit succeeds in an impeachment but Trump is still there, no doubt Democrats will come up with something else in their next round of trying to overturn the 2016 election.

    I already answered your questions. Regarding Constitutionality, in post 45 I wrote, "Democrats have every right to conduct witch hunts." From that list of synonyms provided by Google dictionary, these apply. My comment which you chose to ignore was, "I'll go with google dictionary's definition of coup"
    "coup d'é·tat
    another term for coup"

    seizure of power, coup, overthrow, takeover, ousting, deposition, regime change; bloodless coup, palace revolution"

    "the coup d'état which brought the general to power"

    If you want to carry on that synonyms don't define, have at it but I'll still go with those synonyms defining what I mean by coup.

    Coup d'états, of course, are different than general elections. We have a general election in November less than 11 months from now. I would prefer that voters decide who will be the president four years from now instead of lawyers, snitches, and worse. The impeachment hearings, from what little I've seen of them have been a parade of creeps and weasels. Is that really how Democrats want to portray themselves? If Americans want that crowd running the country, November is an opportunity to elect a socialist or maybe even warmongering Hillary.

    Democrats can constitutionally hype almost anything they want as an excuse to overturn the 2016 election. My constitutional concerns would be more along the lines of every House in the future doing the same thing and also neglecting the rest of their jobs or lawyers redefining words and moving goalposts so impeachment will be common and normal. It isn't healthy for the country. China marches forward whether or not Democrats threw in our anchor.

    Since you also want to bring Bill Clinton into this: Yes, the impeachment of Bill Clinton was as silly as what you are supporting now - more entertaining though.


  23. #48

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    Since you also want to bring Bill Clinton into this: Yes, the impeachment of Bill Clinton was as silly as what you are supporting now - more entertaining though.
    You just defined partisan politics in an nutshell. Thank you.

  24. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck View Post
    You just defined partisan politics in an nutshell. Thank you.

    Nutshell:A defined safe space for triggered leftists. Nutshell

  25. #50

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    Then you and rb went on as if I had written that Democrats violated the Constitution with their impeachment show. "Democrats have every right to conduct witch hunts." Another of your sycophants has since joined your coup chorus.


    So... you didn't post "The Democrats' ongoing coup attempt must indeed be a watching spectacle Russia and Chinese leaders are enjoying."

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