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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by ekleezy View Post
    Montana - or maybe India?
    Montana has highways with no posted speeds so no worries with speed traps.

    India is like Japan and China,20 million people in a city and they all seem to be on scooters at the same time,you crossing the street is like playing dodgeball and you are the ball.

    I went from Tampa to Orlando for the holidays,freeway was cruising 80 to 90 and sure enough was a hipster and his girl driving 50 mph in the fast lane in a smart car,and both were face deep in thier phones,oblivious to what was going on around them.

    More relevant to the thread is these stings were set up in 2015/2016 under the previous president and they were first implemented in New Jersey on the same scale,3 years ago,nobody said anything back then,why?
    Last edited by Richard; December-02-19 at 10:37 PM.

  2. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Like I posted earlier,this way they targeted only the ones that knew they were circumventing the system from the start without disrupting the innocents.
    Yes, that's why they targeted only Indian students and arrested even people who transferred out of the scam program to a legitimate program once they discovered that there were no classes. And protection of the innocent is why they had this fake program accredited, listed on all pertinent lists as totally legit and accredited, and had federal agents tell students who questioned them that this was all legit and that they shouldn't ask questions.

    Yes, all very fair and even-handed, and not deceitful or racist or self-serving at all.

  3. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastsideAl View Post
    Yes, that's why they targeted only Indian students and arrested even people who transferred out of the scam program to a legitimate program once they discovered that there were no classes. And protection of the innocent is why they had this fake program accredited, listed on all pertinent lists as totally legit and accredited, and had federal agents tell students who questioned them that this was all legit and that they shouldn't ask questions.

    Yes, all very fair and even-handed, and not deceitful or racist or self-serving at all.
    Yes,claim racist against Indians because the scam originated in India,Funny how the hundreds of other countries in the world with thousands of students enrolled in student visa programs are merrily attending school without any problems.

    Why is it that all of those students choose to follow the law and had no problem useing the same exact system that was advailable to India?

    Or are you actually saying that people in India are so stupid that they could not figure out a scam that the rest of the world had no problem figuring out?

    That is racist.

    They played the game and got caught.

    I agree with you,they should have wasted millions in tax dollars,arrested hundreds of administrators and college professors and closed hundreds of collages down leaving thousands of students,visa program or not out in the cold.

    It is not enough that we already give India the most liberal student visa program including the right to work,now were are supposed to give them permission to enter the country and work and say,okay if you actually feel like going to school as the program is designed to do have at it,if not do not worry about it?

    You might as well just tell any American citizen going to college in the IT or technology field to stay home,that’s the kind of people we are when we saddle our own fellow Americans with debt so they can learn a skill for a better life and then tell them to piss off because anybody else in the world can take thier place and we are going to make damn sure they do.
    Last edited by Richard; December-04-19 at 06:44 PM.

  4. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Montana has highways with no posted speeds so no worries with speed traps.

    Montana’s period of no set speed limit lasted from 1995, when Congress repealed the national 55 mph speed limit, to 1999, when the state Supreme Court said the “reasonable and prudent” rule was unconstitutionally vague, after which the Legislature set a maximum 75 mph.
    https://www.bozemandailychronicle.co...6335fd1be.html

  5. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Yes,claim racist against Indians because the scam originated in India,Funny how the hundreds of other countries in the world with thousands of students enrolled in student visa programs are merrily attending school without any problems.

    Why is it that all of those students choose to follow the law and had no problem useing the same exact system that was advailable to India?

    Or are you actually saying that people in India are so stupid that they could not figure out a scam that the rest of the world had no problem figuring out?

    That is racist.

    They played the game and got caught.

    I agree with you,they should have wasted millions in tax dollars,arrested hundreds of administrators and college professors and closed hundreds of collages down leaving thousands of students,visa program or not out in the cold.

    It is not enough that we already give India the most liberal student visa program including the right to work,now were are supposed to give them permission to enter the country and work and say,okay if you actually feel like going to school as the program is designed to do have at it,if not do not worry about it?

    You might as well just tell any American citizen going to college in the IT or technology field to stay home,that’s the kind of people we are when we saddle our own fellow Americans with debt so they can learn a skill for a better life and then tell them to piss off because anybody else in the world can take thier place and we are going to make damn sure they do.

    Glad you finally made your agenda clear.

  6. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post

    If the students applied then they really have to be doing some kind of research into the school that they are attending,a room in an office Park is usually the first clue.

    If one is going to advise students to enroll in programs I guess the simplest route would be to advise them to in-roll in university’s that you know are legitimate.
    Right. The first thing you would do is to check whether the university is accredited. It was. A lot of legitimate universities, and most of the for-profit universities, are based in an 'office park'. In fact, only the well-endowed universities have a pretty campus with squirrels running around.

    So yeah, sorry but I still don't see how they could have been aware that this was a scam.

  7. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastsideAl View Post
    Glad you finally made your agenda clear.

    Finally? You've had doubts?

  8. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meddle View Post
    Finally? You've had doubts?
    Nah, no doubts. But it was nice to see one of them say it (or write it) out loud for once.

  9. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastsideAl View Post
    Glad you finally made your agenda clear.
    Everything has to be an agenda right?

    So that would make your agenda the promotion of anything set as illegal actually legal.

    I do not need an agenda,I got mine and did not even need an education in order to get it,unfortunately times have changed and there are those that need the education in order to get theirs.

    To bad they have a hard time ahead of them when they have you and Meddle campaigning for everybody else in the world to have the right to break the rules.

    You guys are the reason that we have inner cities with no hope,lots of pride in that.

  10. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by CR75 View Post
    Right. The first thing you would do is to check whether the university is accredited. It was. A lot of legitimate universities, and most of the for-profit universities, are based in an 'office park'. In fact, only the well-endowed universities have a pretty campus with squirrels running around.

    So yeah, sorry but I still don't see how they could have been aware that this was a scam.
    Maybe you are not understanding how it works.

    You live in India,you want to go to the United States in order to work,you cannot get permission like everybody else.

    So you pay a recruiter to set you up under the student visa program,with that you receive permission to work.

    You get to the states and get a job because you now have permission to work.

    You do not have to show up for school as the requirement is because the staff is paid off to log you in as attending the class when you are not.

    Or the fake accreditated school signs the paperwork that you have attended class.

    The reason that you know it is a scam is because you paid the recruiters with the full knowledge that you would not be attending class.

    The recruiters collected your money knowing full well that you were never going to attend class.

    This is not like some innocent people got caught up in a sting.

    It is a buisness it cannot be run unless both parties choose to partake in it and both parties know full well is is a scam.

    Thats why they also arrested the recruiters and charged them.

  11. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    You guys are the reason that we have inner cities with no hope,lots of pride in that.

    Glad that's finally settled. I was wondering who to blame.

  12. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickbak View Post
    Glad that's finally settled. I was wondering who to blame.
    It is not who,it is the mindset.

    You know what WALT Disney world did?

    Brought over IT techs from India because it was $10,000 cheaper per employee,made the current employees train and settle them in before they fired them.

    So we provide other people in other countries the opportunity to get an education in order to replace our citizens at a cheaper wage and expect them to pay thier way while stripping them of the opportunity they worked for.

    Thats bad enough but to campaign and support them while scamming the system is an insult not only to the students for this country but also the students form other countries that made the decision to do it the right way.

    Wrong message to send.

  13. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by CR75 View Post

    So yeah, sorry but I still don't see how they could have been aware that this was a scam.
    Pretty simple. It's highly likely that they were informed of such before they signed up to "attend".

    Out of the hundreds of people that have been either convicted or charged, only a handful are fighting the charges. That's a pretty good indication that the Feds had rock solid evidence that these folks weren't being scammed, but were themselves the scam artists.
    Last edited by Johnnny5; December-04-19 at 09:48 PM.

  14. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Maybe you are not understanding how it works.
    Richard, you are making all this stuff up without providing any reference, link, fact, statistic whatsoever, and choosing to ignore the facts provided by the articles and the links provided, so it's hard to have a meaningful conversation. It's clear to me by now that you are just trying to push some kind of political message, so knock yourself out but as I wrote before, I am not interested in that, at all. I will continue to research the matter elsewhere. Thanks for your time.

  15. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by CR75 View Post
    Richard, you are making all this stuff up without providing any reference, link, fact, statistic whatsoever, and choosing to ignore the facts provided by the articles and the links provided, so it's hard to have a meaningful conversation. It's clear to me by now that you are just trying to push some kind of political message, so knock yourself out but as I wrote before, I am not interested in that, at all. I will continue to research the matter elsewhere. Thanks for your time.

    Nice try.

    Op posts an excerpt from an article that only included a one sided view,without reading the link she posted comments were made that the officials should be jailed and a bunch of in innocent were caught in a trap.

    It is clear that very few even read the link posted and it was taken at face value but yet I have provided easily searchable facts and even some facts that were in the OPs link that nobody read in the first place before coming to a conclusion.

    You yourself have clearly not read the link posted by the Op otherwise you would have never asked the question you did,the Sorry part was I actually thought you were serious and was stupid enough to take the time to try and help you understand something you clearly had no intention of wanting to understand.

    Without even doing your research you come here and claim I am making things up and trying to push some political message.

    This is not a new thing 2015 an exact same sting was set up in New Jersey just as another one was set up in 2012.

    So how exactly does politics play into it on my part,it appears to be on others agenda.

    So now please do your own research and come back and tell me again how I am making this stuff up.

    My guess is you will not because you could not even take the time to read the posted link as it was before commenting.

    Simple 3 second search of student visa fraud will get you up to speed.

    If you really want to get creative also search student visa fraud in Canada and you will also find it is a problem there also.

  16. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnny5 View Post
    Pretty simple. It's highly likely that they were informed of such before they signed up to "attend".

    The only surprise here is that the Free Press actually followed up on their one sided mess of their earlier story.

    "U.S. Attorney Schneider said: "At the outset, they were told there would be no classes and no education. Month after month the 'students' willingly paid the 'University' so that they could fraudulently maintain their status (as a full-time student engaged in educational activities), and falsely obtain documents (Form I-20’s) that would allow them to illegally remain, re-enter, and work in the United States.”

    https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2019/12/09/ice-defends-fake-university-metro-detroit-led-250-arrests/2625316001/



    I didn't vote for her, but it was nice to see Representative Slotkin's comment about the need for gathering more information, instead of the knee jerk reaction from those like Senator Warren.

  17. #42

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    So, not only the initial fraud committed by the Feds, but continuing and ongoing. What else would you call it when someone (vendor, merchant, bank, etc.) continues to take your money every month with no intention whatsoever of providing goods or services in return?

  18. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meddle View Post
    So, not only the initial fraud committed by the Feds, but continuing and ongoing. What else would you call it when someone (vendor, merchant, bank, etc.) continues to take your money every month with no intention whatsoever of providing goods or services in return?
    These "students" got exactly what they thought they were paying for. Which in this case wasn't a graduate level education, but instead was falsified documentation that they needed to cheat our immigration system.

    "Vance Callender, special agent in charge of the Detroit office of ICE's Homeland Security Investigations (HSI), said in a statement to the Free Press that “HSI special agents, as part of this undercover operation, made it abundantly clear in their interactions with potential University of Farmington enrollees that the school did not offer academic or vocational programs of any kind. The individuals who enrolled in the University of Farmington did so intentionally."

  19. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnny5 View Post
    These "students" got exactly what they thought they were paying for. Which in this case wasn't a graduate level education, but instead was falsified documentation that they needed to cheat our immigration system.

    "Vance Callender, special agent in charge of the Detroit office of ICE's Homeland Security Investigations (HSI), said in a statement to the Free Press that “HSI special agents, as part of this undercover operation, made it abundantly clear in their interactions with potential University of Farmington enrollees that the school did not offer academic or vocational programs of any kind. The individuals who enrolled in the University of Farmington did so intentionally."
    So the 'students' weren't students. They were engaged in fraud.

    The DHS sting-school wasn't a fraud. They accurately represented themselves as a fraudulent school.

    Threads like this on DYes are great. I started out reflexively thinking that this was a valid sting operation. Then, I read some more and thought that DHS had pushed the boundaries of a sting operation too far. That they were enticing legitimate students into their trap. The word is entrapment.

    But no. It turns out they were up-front with their 'clients'. The clients clearly wanted a fraudulent school. And DHS simply provided it.

    So DYes is doing an important public service of providing (or at least selecting) news to help us citizens who have been abandoned by traditional news organizations who have chosen instead to become click-bait.

  20. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnny5 View Post
    "Vance Callender, special agent in charge of the Detroit office of ICE's Homeland Security Investigations (HSI), said in a statement to the Free Press that “HSI special agents, as part of this undercover operation, made it abundantly clear in their interactions with potential University of Farmington enrollees that the school did not offer academic or vocational programs of any kind. The individuals who enrolled in the University of Farmington did so intentionally."
    Makes it abundantly clear that it was intended to be fraud from the beginning and that the government took money with no intent to provide services.

    I say again, every single Government employee involved needs to be removed from service and lose their pension.

  21. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meddle View Post
    Makes it abundantly clear that it was intended to be fraud from the beginning and that the government took money with no intent to provide services.
    Applying this logic would add an interested twist to those cases where police officers go undercover in prostitution stings.

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