Muslim teen fears for life after changing religion

[elganned]

It wouldn't work, rb336. Get rid of religion, and something else will rise in its place--Fascism, or Socialism, or Communism, or Conservatism, or Whatever-ism.

Empirical evidence indicates that most folks are hard-wired to need to believe in something greater than themselves, and they will, and whatever that thing is, it will breed intolerance, exclusion, and irrationalism as spin-offs just as religions do now.

"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent Him." ~ Voltaire

[Sstashmoo]

Thankfully this country is made up of 90% believers. Thankfully, the other 10% are pretty much relegated to internet forums that nobody ever reads anyway. Anything else hateful to say about Christianity and the people that believe it? This is the place obviously. Type in Caps so the other 12 people can read it too.

[tahleel]

I'm a Street Prophet, writing words of ethical views on the web or preaching the Word of God in the ghettos of Detroit just the others. Please, I ask you to be ethical to my and other people comments. Mr. Boileau wants us in this forum to respect our codespeak without creating too much negative bias.


WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET.

If you're self proclaimed street prophet, then I must be a street messiah.

So you say you preach your ethics to members on this forum. Are you trying to say that we, the members of this forum, are unethical? That we do not know the difference between right and wrong, and that only you, the almighty, all knowing "street prophet" can deliver us from ignorance? Wow, what a big ego.

Oh please Mr. Street Prophet! Teach us your ways. Please deliver me and my fellow DYers from evil and ignorance. You surely know the path.

Also, who died and gave you the right to speak for Mr. Boileau? If I am out of line, I am sure that I would be immediately notified via PM.

WORDS FROM THE STREET MESSIAH.

-Tahleel

[elganned]

Oh, great. Now we have a Street Prophet and a Street Messiah.

What's next--a Street Buddha? A Street Kami? Perhaps a Street Avatar of Vishnu?
Sounds like the street is getting a little crowded...

[elganned]

Thankfully this country is made up of 90% believers.

And thankfully, 90% of those 90% are just quietly delusional and not violently delusional.

Thankfully, the other 10% are pretty much relegated to internet forums that nobody ever reads anyway.

I don't think so. They're out there, Sstashmoo. Probably living next door to you. Selling you groceries. Changing the oil in your car. We're e-e-e-e-verywhere...

Unfortunately, non-believers don't have a place like a church where they could congregate and organize. [[That would be like putting an Anarchists Unite! sign in your window.)

Anything else hateful to say about Christianity and the people that believe it?

Oh, I'm sure they can think of something. Just be patient.

This is the place obviously. Type in Caps so the other 12 people can read it too.

Wait--you mean there are 11 more of you? I'd better go to the store and get more roach repellent...

[Lorax]

Sorry, folks, but more than 10% of the population are non-believers- what I love about the right wing is that they insist all minorities represent only "10%" of the population, whether it's homeless people, gays, blacks, jews, hispanics, it's the magic "feel good" number they like to convince themselves of.

Bottom line, is don't impose something as important as a belief in superstition on young minds. Teach them well, right from wrong, let them decide if they want to believe in something extraterrestrial.

As for being "hard wired" to believe in some higher being, that's a load of rot. Nowhere is it conclusive that people are "born" with a built-in belief in a supernatural power. That is complete bullcrap.

Religion is learned behavior, a choice. Unlike skin or eye color, or sexual orientation.

If you've indoctrinated you kids, it's a forced belief system.

So, religion is rather like bigotry, racism, or even exclusivism. A choice. If children are not taught to hate or discriminate, they won't do it.

[tahleel]

Sorry, folks, but more than 10% of the population are non-believers- what I love about the right wing is that they insist all minorities represent only "10%" of the population, whether it's homeless people, gays, blacks, jews, hispanics, it's the magic "feel good" number they like to convince themselves of.

Bottom line, is don't impose something as important as a belief in superstition on young minds. Teach them well, right from wrong, let them decide if they want to believe in something extraterrestrial.

As for being "hard wired" to believe in some higher being, that's a load of rot. Nowhere is it conclusive that people are "born" with a built-in belief in a supernatural power. That is complete bullcrap.

Religion is learned behavior, a choice. Unlike skin or eye color, or sexual orientation.

If you've indoctrinated you kids, it's a forced belief system.

So, religion is rather like bigotry, racism, or even exclusivism. A choice. If children are not taught to hate or discriminate, they won't do it.

To add onto this, a good reading topic would be Nietzsche's theory of slaves and masters in regards to religion.

-Tahleel

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "Bottom line, is don't impose something as important as a belief in superstition on young minds."

Lorax, it's just Superstition to you. As far as teaching young kids about Christianity and it's principles, I would just have you compare any Christian school to any public school. The Christian schools turn out better kids. That is an undeniable fact.

And for your nonsense about belief in a higher power being taught, explain why so many atheists switch over to faith at some point.

How anybody with even a rudimentary understanding of life, can somehow rationalize that it all came to be by happenstance is off the charts narrow minded.

Lorax, I think you're "Christ-curious". He's omnipresent on your thoughts. I think Atheism is grounded in selfishness and stupidity, but I'd never tell you that. Why should I? It doesn't matter to me. Something about Christianity obviously matters to you. Like your claims you're "being attacked" on here for being Atheist. That's called "conviction" baby. Nobody is attacking you for being Atheist.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "I'd better go to the store and get more roach repellent..."

What college did you go to again? And was your diploma emailed to you in PDF format?

[RickBeall]

Its pretty obvious to me religion fills a real need in people. As elganned said, if you deny people religion, they will just fill the void with something else like science and liberalism, or atheism.

I think the reason why atheists and liberals [[not all liberals are atheists) are so dismissive of religion is because they think they have science on their side, and in particular, they think they can draw ethics from science. But science only describes what exists. Ethics does not logically follow from science. Ethics has to come from somewhere else. Ethics, at best, is a judgement about science. Being over-impressed with science tends to lead people down all sorts of weird paths like eugenics. Poorly thought out science tends to lead liberals to favor abortion, favoring the woman's rights over the rights of the little person inside them.

How's that for starting a food fight?

[tahleel]

Lorax, it's just Superstition to you. As far as teaching young kids about Christianity and it's principles, I would just have you compare any Christian school to any public school. The Christian schools turn out better kids. That is an undeniable fact.

It's not simply because they are Christian schools, more so that these Christian-based schools are also private schools. Parents pay the premium for smaller class sizes, "better" learning environment, and more school supplies. Comparing private to public schools is like comparing apples to oranges.

How anybody with even a rudimentary understanding of life, can somehow rationalize that it all came to be by happenstance is off the charts narrow minded.

Anybody with even a rudimentary understanding of science can shoot down any theory of an existence of any higher being. So you're telling me that the world we are in today, was created in a week? That some mythical being, created everything? That if we don't do what this mythical being commands us to do, then we will burn in eternity because we didn't follow his commands? Keep in mind, there is no proof of this mythical being.

-Tahleel

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "Comparing private to public schools is like comparing apples to oranges."

Yes, one is an orderly faith based initiative and the other is a clusterF based on people that think they know better.

Quote: "there is no proof of this mythical being."

Oh really?

[gibran]

if people followed the basic teaching of our spiritual leaders vs the twists and turns of man's own manipulation of the basic messages it would be different... But. I believe in a marriage where you can have both religion and critical thought..for it is through religion "some" are introduced to concepts like "forgiveness and love of thy neighbor" or "what one does to the least of thy brothers they do onto me"...However, along the way these simple messages get twisted for political gains and are lost in translation..So hope and faith have a place in our lives [[we need it psychologically)...and religion at some levels is one way to deliver the messages ..it is a shame that religious leaders don't always deliver what they preach..but as a scientist I can see the cognitive benefits for examining the messages and applying then to my life..

as far as buying thing wholesale well..I have no problem with evolution, the earth being millions of years old, that creation stories existed in many cultures, and that most of the old testament is full of mythology and maybe some historical facts, however...I believe as soon as we dismiss everything by science I wouldn't bet against something our primitive brains couldn't conceive is out there and God Like..

...just like the reasons why early religions filled the void of "why" with stories for people at their stages of cognitive development in the first place [[so they could understand)...


If you look at things from a physical perspective only, you may miss out on a metaphysical experience. Just use statistics..prove to me beyond .0005 that there is not something bigger than we can conceive out there...If I were a gambling person, I would much rather believe in a God and live better life, than not and take a risk at being wrong..that is not to say an atheist or agnostic is bad or don't live moral lives [[ i see that everyday on here, with some of my collegues writing very moral arguements and not beleiving in God -as some who rally against humanity claim to do)..in fact sometimes they are more moral than our religious leaders...but it is still my choice to reconcile faith and science. That is freedom...

[ccbatson]

If by religion, you mean the true non-literal meaning of the scriptures, then yes, critical thought and religion are not contradictory to each other.

[elganned]

Quote: "I'd better go to the store and get more roach repellent..."

What college did you go to again? And was your diploma emailed to you in PDF format?

No. God handed it to me directly. On the mountain.

[elganned]

Quote: "there is no proof of this mythical being."

Oh really?

A devastating response, right up there with, "Oh, yeah?" and, "Is too!". I wonder that anyone can continue after this brilliantly constructed arguement. I think I'll go right out and convert.

[ccbatson]

If G-d is the word that describes the entirety of the universe/existence, then it did, in fact, give you [[and existence) everything...including your diploma.

[elganned]

And for your nonsense about belief in a higher power being taught, explain why so many atheists switch over to faith at some point.

Right after you explain why so many believers switch over to atheism at some point.

[sumas]

Seems to me you are all missing the point. A young woman is afraid for her life.

Choosing a religion is a personal matter. No one should fear retaliation. I respect all religions that teach love and harmony. Don't have any respect for religious zealots who preach hate.

[Blarf]

Thankfully this country is made up of 90% believers.

You sure about that? Well I guess that's the end of the debate.

To be fair, If 90% of the population believe Sasquatch roams the wilderness, than it must be true.

[Lorax]

Wow, Stash, I was going to respond point by point, but by the time I got back here, everyone else seems to have done a yeoman's job of doing it for me.

Can't add much more than perhaps your "god" should have taught you a little more humility, it might suit you better.

Your religion and assumptions about it's ability to educate is biased, at best, since indoctrinated kids don't have the benefit of a secular education, based in science, and free of the guilt, demonization of other religions, vitriol against gays, minorities, etc.

Religion by nature is "exclusive", a club, if you will. And either you are a true believer, or a heretic. A convenient either/or world of black and white assumptions. Which is why, when you say you are a "fence sitter" politically, I don't believe you.

Your exclusive nature of being part of a religious group deems your "neutral" political positions as disingenuous.

I have no "Christ" fetish, as you suggest- I unfortunately can't avoid it since it's all around me. I only wish those who profess to be "religious" would honor the constitution and leave the growing minority of atheists alone.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "I unfortunately can't avoid it since it's all around me."

It's called "conviction" Lorax.

Quote: "Religion by nature is "exclusive", a club, "

Granted some churches have became a social clique. But they miss the target badly.

[Detroitej72]

Seems to me you are all missing the point. A young woman is afraid for her life.

Choosing a religion is a personal matter. No one should fear retaliation. I respect all religions that teach love and harmony. Don't have any respect for religious zealots who preach hate.

Excellently stated, Sumas.

However, many on this forum who claim to be tolerant choose to ignore your post and use this thread to spew their hatred and blame Christianity for all the world's evils.

90% of the world's Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, etc. are peaceful, caring and loving folks but you wouldn't know it by reading some of the ignorant posts here.

[ccbatson]

Retaliation in violation of the law should not be feared. Consequences outside of that description, on the other hand, should be expected.

[Stosh]

Retaliation in violation of the law should not be feared. Consequences outside of that description, on the other hand, should be expected.

Just what the hell does that mean in context to the original subject?