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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by drjeff View Post
    Basically students in this program have to exhaust every other resource available, such as Pell grants or other funding. WSU just covers the balance. Also, students have to gain admission just like everyone else. WSU raised their admission requirements several years ago because too many students were coming in totally unprepared for college level work. I suspect there will be more academic counselors hired to meet the potential increase in students.

    Someone with a 2.0 is not going to be admitted.
    Maybe I stand corrected, I was under the impression WS had been lowering their standards in the face of declining enrollment. However if the opposite is true that could certainly help keep those who would abuse this money out.

  2. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by drjeff View Post
    Basically students in this program have to exhaust every other resource available, such as Pell grants or other funding. WSU just covers the balance. Also, students have to gain admission just like everyone else. WSU raised their admission requirements several years ago because too many students were coming in totally unprepared for college level work. I suspect there will be more academic counselors hired to meet the potential increase in students.

    Someone with a 2.0 is not going to be admitted.
    Okay, I read something yesterday that said the criteria was minimum 3.0 GPA and 21 on the ACT. Maybe that article was ahead of the facts.

    The University of Michigan also offers free tuition to Michigan residents with incomes under $65,000, so this isn't exactly new. But Wayne State's student body is far more tilted to Michigan and Detroit residents, so this program could be even more of a game changer.

  3. #28

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    We might need both!

    Quote Originally Posted by JonWylie View Post
    Yeah, fuck my tax dollars going towards education. I'd rather buy 1/100,000 of a fighter jet
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray1936 View Post
    Uh.....and where is the money going to come from to hire these additional academic counselors? Oh, I know, the taxpayers, of course.

  4. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray1936 View Post
    Uh.....and where is the money going to come from to hire these additional academic counselors? Oh, I know, the taxpayers, of course.
    The amount of money WSU gets from the state at this point is somewhere between jack and shit. Funding levels are $12 million lower now than they were in 2011. The republican state legislature is not going to give more money to WSU for this.

  5. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by drjeff View Post
    The amount of money WSU gets from the state at this point is somewhere between jack and shit. Funding levels are $12 million lower now than they were in 2011. The republican state legislature is not going to give more money to WSU for this.
    According to their own budget, WSU gets about $200 million from the state, accounting for 20% of the operating budget. I guess you could call that "jack shit." I don't know what a more appropriate amount would be.

    In the meantime, tuition has increased roughly 4x faster than inflation over the last 20 years. Where is all that extra money going?

  6. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBMcB View Post
    According to their own budget, WSU gets about $200 million from the state, accounting for 20% of the operating budget. I guess you could call that "jack shit." I don't know what a more appropriate amount would be.

    In the meantime, tuition has increased roughly 4x faster than inflation over the last 20 years. Where is all that extra money going?
    It goes a bunch of places. State funding in current (not inflation-adjusted) dollars is a bit lower than it was twenty years ago, so all the increased costs have to be paid for from someplace else. Wayne has also increased it's own financial aid substantially.

    As far as what a more appropriate amount would be, hard to say, but in 2001 Michigan ranked 20th in per-person spending on higher ed. Last year it ranked 44th. So I guess the answer is "maybe something more similar to what we did in the past?"

  7. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwilbert View Post
    It goes a bunch of places. State funding in current (not inflation-adjusted) dollars is a bit lower than it was twenty years ago, so all the increased costs have to be paid for from someplace else.
    What are the increased costs? Do you mean that, because they are getting less money from the state, they need to cover that loss? Right now they get roughly $400 million in tuition. If it were only increased at the rate of inflation, they would have collected around $100 million. That's a $300 million increase over inflation, or 50% more than they get from the state. They are collecting *WAY* more money than they lost from state funding.

    Wayne has also increased it's own financial aid substantially.
    With quadrupled tuition rates I can see why. If tuition was 25% of what it is today, would they still need so much financial aid?

  8. #33

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    The tuition rate increases over the past 30 years are parallel between UM, MSU, and WSU, except WSU tuition remains significantly lower (roughly $3000 less per year for in-state tuition in 2019-2020.) WSU is doing the same thing every state university has had to do since the state cut way back on funding in the 2000s. UM, MSU, and WSU are the three research universities inn Michigan. They can't really be compared with the non-research state universities. I know for a fact that WSU cut their budget to the bone in the past 10 years. There are too many administrators with big salaries currently but it's not like the place is rolling in money like UM is. UM also has 50% out of state undergraduates and charges over $60,000 per year in tuition to them (in-state is ~$16,000.)

  9. #34

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    UM also has 50% out of state undergraduates and charges over $60,000 per year in tuition to them (in-state is ~$16,000.)

    "Ah, yes................."
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    Last edited by Ray1936; November-01-19 at 08:27 PM.

  10. #35

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    I'm more interested in a fundamental change in hiring policies. In my day, you were hired on your perceived ability to do the job, not whether or not you had a piece of paper. Employers trained people within and promoted accordingly. They invested in employees, not warm bodies.

    Most jobs should not require degrees unless there are specific skills involved that require certification like medical or engineering. Even then, internships would be better options. Hire, train the basics, then sponsor the education.

    Schools have become businesses seeking more students rather than service institutes. Requiring degrees for menial jobs is only feeding the machine. That is fueled by alumni getting into hiring positions and their drive to push enrollment in their former schools.

    When I worked at the Federal Court downtown, one of the managers demanded a two year degree for Intake Clerks who did little more than filing and fee collection. There was no Federal requirement at the time and no rational reason for it.

  11. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBMcB View Post
    Where is all that extra money going?
    Six figure or greater salaries, compensation and perks for the brass, buildings that aren't needed, sports complexes, political lobbying (palm greasing) and all sorts of non-student related 'expenses'.

    Somebody stated something about students not being ready for classes. High Schools are no longer teaching life skills. They now only prep for college. Many, too many people are forced into college and the associated debt knowing that many, too many employers won't even accept applications from those that don't.

  12. #37

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    Can't rememebr where, but I was reading the other day that this entire free tuition pledge was supposedly made and announced without consulting WSU's board of governors. I know there has been some jockeying for power between the President and the board, but it seems a bit ridiculous that a program like this would or could be implemented without the board weighing in on it.

  13. #38

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    Reasons for higher education costs increasing more than inflation include:
    -States have reduced the percentage of total tuition costs they pay.
    -Wages have flat-lined while educational costs have increases.
    -Colleges and universities offer more student services.
    -To the extent that universities provide scholarships, tuition rates for other students have to be increased.
    -Some STEM courses require expensive and rapidly outdated equipment.
    -Available loans and aid increase demand for enrollment.
    -As Meddle pointed out, job markets often require degrees for jobs that don't require a degree.

    Because Wayne State is a commuter school, total costs are less than if dorms were required.

  14. #39

  15. #40

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    There's been an ongoing feud between two factions of the board of governors. This is just the latest power grab from one of the factions.

    I've been at WSU through 4 presidents. While Wilson has some issues (I dislike the use of so many outside consultants, for one) He's been by far the most effective president. The university is in a lot better shape than it was 15 years ago. The previous president (Gilmour) was a total disaster.

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