Duggan: Detroit almost out of large parcels, could expand People Mover

[Airforceguy]

This would be great if the People Mover expansion happens..

Mayor Mike Duggan said Thursday that attracting and retaining young people for the jobs of the future may require expanding the People Mover elevated train that loops through downtown.Speaking at the Detroit Regional Chamber's annual Detroit Policy Conference, Duggan said city officials are going to study modifying routes of the People Mover, the 37-year-old downtown skytrain that has 13 stations in the central business district.

"The People Mover was built when it was envisioned that a subway was going to come from Royal Oak or Pontiac and it was going to distribute people into the downtown office buildings. They built the People Mover and the subway never came," Duggan said. The People Mover's future route may need to be adjusted to account for an influx of new downtown residents and their mobility needs, Duggan said.

"If the People Mover were to be built today, you'd be looking at these high-rises and you'd be connecting them to each other as a neighborhood ... potential reconfiguration of the People Mover to make a downtown neighborhood where you both live, work and play is something we're looking at," Duggan said. Duggan addressed transit issues during a talk at the Detroit chamber's annual policy conference, which was focused on Detroit and Michigan's long-term population challenges.

Detroit's first version of a bus rapid transit route, meaning riders can get off and on the bus quicker, is also being rolled out on Jefferson Avenue this year, Duggan said. That includes rolling out paperless tickets, pulling over easier and being at the same level as the person boarding on the bus, he said. The city also is looking to improve working conditions for bus drivers with a $3 an hour pay raise.

The theme of this year's Detroit Policy Conference at Motor City Casino was growing Michigan's shrinking population. Panelists and experts spoke about the 10 recommendations from the Growing Michigan Together Council, which released its report in December.“Michigan’s house is on fire," Detroit chamber CEO Sandy Baruah said, citing data that the state is getting older, poorer and literacy rates are declining.The policy conference focused on improving education, retaining skilled and educated workers, the looming decline of car ownership and the increased need for alternative transit.
Duggan said the state's largest city is almost out of large parcels for any more manufacturing facilities, so a new economic development focus is in order.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...n/72177441007/

[Danny]

The law may sleep, but never dies.

[Richard]

All most out of large parcels? Because everything industrial is being converted into apartments,so pick your poison,places for people to live in a city that has lots of gutted neighborhoods or places for them to work?

It’s kinda vague though,people mover as in its current state and raised utilizing the scrap bought from Canada of cars that nobody makes parts for anymore.

Short term yea okay,it gets you up and running the quickest fashion but considering the cars reached there life expectancy 10 years ago,if you can squeeze another 10 years out of them all the better,but when that day comes,it will have to be a completely new system ground up,all for mass transit 100% but done right,you do not want to go through all of that only to saddle your new citizens with even more debt obligations.

I am biased when it comes to bonds,but you may be better off doing a bond,do it right from the start based on a solid adaptable foundation.

If you ask taxpayers for 100s of millions now then 10 years down the road and say - sorry ,system is obsolete gotta spend billions now,it turns people against mass transit and moving forward will become an uphill battle far worse then it is already.

The federal funding that is needed to play its part, is based on the amount of population it serves,key word Connect-ability,the main lines that connects downtown Detroit to the suburb communities are the bread and butter you can always add more localized connections as the demand increases.

Cities are doing this every day,it’s things that are proven already to work and tested,in all of this time spent pissing around trying to figure out how to get people from point A to Point B on a system that has been around over 100 years,it could have been done already.

Perserving and protecting the historical integrity of cities and mass transit are probably the two biggest mountains to climb,but it’s not impossible because it’s being done every day across the country.

As many people that travel from Windsor to Detroit every day for work etc. I am surprised that a deal was not cut with Ambassador to allow twin span but make the old one a rail and bike bridge that connects the two cities,Canadian taxpayers got lots of extra cash they can pay for it.

Okay,the city is in a tough spot,but it’s not like there are not options out there where you have to settle for less just to get something done.

A lot of this is politics,you cannot expect the mayor to stand on an island by himself and fix everything,if you are an advocate,contact your local politicians and tell them either they get on board or you will not be onboard with them,you have a voice.

The reason Florida was able to pull off the rail from Miami to Jacksonville while connecting Orlando and Tampa was because it was private funded without the political red tape,private funding does not happen if the project in not feasible,you can use it to run the mainlines and work on your spurs locally.

They can always use the argument of the demand is not there,of course it is not,because you have not created it yet.

People and politicians are on this Green Bandwagon while committing trillions of taxpayer dollars,but when it comes to mass transit,which is the most efficient and green way to move people,they become little hypocritical church mice hiding in the corner.

So for those at the top could care less about Green anything,other then the color of the money,because when it comes to trillions of free money,it creates nice pieces of pie for the friends and family outings.

[K-slice]

Industrial converted to apartments? Where? You mean a few obsolete industrial buildings in Milwaukee junction have gone this way? You're not even close to accurate on any broad scale.

I like Duggan's sentiment here, turning away from the mindset that factories are the future. Even where major factories get built they employ 1/10th the people they used to in the 90's and earlier.

Duggan realizes we need jobs in growing sectors, but that seems to have been somewhat of a pipe dream thus far, even with the likes of Gilbert developing some of the most attractive office and residential spaces in the metro area right downtown. We have yet to land a major relocation from the suburbs, let alone out of state.

As for the PM, I don't see any kind of "realignment" being worth the substantial cost that would be incurred. I read Duggan's comment as "the stations aren't in the right places to serve what are now the major developments downtown" which I don't really agree with. Several of the stations are just steps away from giant apartment buildings, many more are inside major buildings.

As someone who rides the PM 2-3 times a month on average, the stations that fit the bill of being disconnected from anything are Fort/Cass, Bricktown, and Broadway. The other IMHO, are about as useful as any station on a 2.9 mile elevated train loop in Downtown Detroit can be...

[gthomas]

How about updating the train/tram. Make it more modern and sleeker. That will attract more young riders.

[Richard]

Industrial converted to apartments? Where? You mean a few obsolete industrial buildings in Milwaukee junction have gone this way? You're not even close to accurate on any broad ..

My mistake,I was not being close to being accurate in any broad what ?

What are they converting Fisher body into ? A chip factory?

They demolished a part of Packard forever sealing its future ability to be a large parcel.

Every week there are projects announced that involves converting old industrial space into apartments and condos.

Correct ?

You are not going to attract businesses,because right now the free pot of money is targeting affordable housing and grants to convert industrial spaces into affordable housing.

So I guess all of those tax capture deals and millions in incentives that are geared towards affordable housing is just false newspaper articles.

People keep saying industry is dead ,there was no industry in Detroit,until somebody built it,they did not wait for it to come,they created it.

So instead of creating it let’s turn that foundation that was built into residential,we can worry about the jobs later.

The city still has some of the highest home ownership rates in the country,so instead of continuing that trend,let’s move them all into apartments so they can never build wealth while we eliminate any possible chance of providing jobs based on opps we do not have any space for companies to create jobs.

Then it becomes ,I cannot find a job so it is easy to dump my apartment lease and move to the burbs or another state to get a job.

The concept of a city has been around for over 1000 years,there is no senário that you can play out that has not been already played out a million times already,even in hindsight has been played out so many times it trips over its self.

Lots of cities have successfully re-imagined themselves all across the country and are successful,it’s not like you landed on some planet and starting from scratch.

They did that here over 200 years ago and started with nothing and built a country.

You will have plenty of space in the future because what you are doing is eliminating the outer rings or surrounding neighborhoods that the core needed to survive,the problem is as you are eliminating the outer rings you are also eliminating the ability for homeowners to build generational wealth because they will have no choice but to live in an apartment or buy a house in the burbs.

People as a rule want to put down roots,living in an apartment for life is not committing people to putting down roots because it stays transient by nature.

Okay you want to attract young people,but after they get a few years of experience under their belt,they are going to want more,if you cannot offer it to them,they will leave and you will be forever trying to attract young people in a never ending struggle.

[401don]

If you want to run another streetcar down Michigan avenue okay, but expand the People Mover? That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a while.

[canuck]

If you want to run another streetcar down Michigan avenue okay, but expand the People Mover? That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a while.

Agreed.

You need heft to make it worthwhile. The People Mover is a nice thing to have for a downtown commute and visit, and is not a huge expense in the long term, vis-à-vis 2024 costs in implementing. It serves its function.

Any commitment to transit outbound should be in the streetcar, light rail category, at least.

[rbdetsport]

Agreed.

You need heft to make it worthwhile. The People Mover is a nice thing to have for a downtown commute and visit, and is not a huge expense in the long term, vis-à-vis 2024 costs in implementing. It serves its function.

Any commitment to transit outbound should be in the streetcar, light rail category, at least.

Why? I am a transit planner and I cannot understand why I keep seeing comments like this about expanding the people mover. The same technology is being consistently expanded in Vancouver, BC, and shows that it can be successful as a Light Metro. Why can’t we also have nice things?

Light Rail is not going to attract ridership in Metro Detroit any more than buses can unless it is done right, with its own ROW, signal priority, and elevated ROW at key sections. I do not trust the City, Region, and State to do it right. With an elevated Light Metro, you can’t really go as wrong.

[canuck]

Why? I am a transit planner and I cannot understand why I keep seeing comments like this about expanding the people mover. The same technology is being consistently expanded in Vancouver, BC, and shows that it can be successful as a Light Metro. Why can’t we also have nice things?

Light Rail is not going to attract ridership in Metro Detroit any more than buses can unless it is done right, with its own ROW, signal priority, and elevated ROW at key sections. I do not trust the City, Region, and State to do it right. With an elevated Light Metro, you can’t really go as wrong.

Well, if the ridership numbers are indicative of future development projections, maybe 2 car to 4 car trains alternating on rush to normal hours is okay for Detroit. Do you think the extension of the PM would do the job in the future, by attracting higher counts?

It may that the downtown district’s circumscribing is responsible for the low commuter count. It has probably lower numbers than airport choo-choos that shuffle travellers btwn terminals where similar systems exist. That is not to knock it, it is a valuable asset, and should be promoted, if not extended.

When the city and metro get together on a serious plan to develop commuter rail, you can expect nice things. Where the will is, the way is not that far.

[401don]

Why? I am a transit planner and I cannot understand why I keep seeing comments like this about expanding the people mover. The same technology is being consistently expanded in Vancouver, BC, and shows that it can be successful as a Light Metro. Why can’t we also have nice things?

Light Rail is not going to attract ridership in Metro Detroit any more than buses can unless it is done right, with its own ROW, signal priority, and elevated ROW at key sections. I do not trust the City, Region, and State to do it right. With an elevated Light Metro, you can’t really go as wrong.

We know any expansion of Detroit transit will be incremental. That's just reality. The next step, as was suggested,would be down Michigan Ave. to Corktown. My point was that the streetcar makes way more sense than the People Mover. Are you going to have it run straight out and reverse or make a one way loop? Neither makes sense.

[Sthoms3355]

In the ideal world I think expanding the People Mover like my attached rendering would be fabulous. This would tie the entertainment district into the rest of Detroit and hopefully help increase speed of District Detroit and the University of Michigan Center for Innovated Development. With this plan it would eliminate the Grand Circus Park stop but add:

1. Ford Field
2. Comerica Park
3. Fox Theatre/Hotel
4. UMCID

I also love to dream that additional “Q Line like” street cars would be added. A line connecting Belle Isle all the way through to Ford’s Michigan Central. Then a line that includes both Grand River and Gratiot. This would connect all of downtown Detroit and expanding into Corktown, Eastern Market/Lafayette Park and the Jefferson Corridor/Rivertown. Sure this would be refined but here are my thoughts on stops.
Jefferson Line

1. Belle Isle [[future Uniroyal development)
2. Harbortown
3. Riverplace/Jos Campau
4. Dequindre Cut
5. Layfayette Park
6. Rivard St/St Antoine [[dependant on I-375)
7. Woodward/Q Line
8. JLA People Mover Stop/Waterfront Development
9. Ralph C. Wilson Centennial Park [[10^th St)
10. SW Greenway
11. Grand River Blvd [[Jefferson Line)

Michigan Ave. [[M-12)/Gratiot Line [[M-3)

1. Roosevelt Park/Michigan Central St
2. Rosa Parks Blvd [[Jefferson Line)
3. Trumbell Blvd
4. MGM Grand
5. Rosa Parks Transit Center
6. Campus Martius
7. Brush St.
8. Ford Field/Failed Jail Site
9. Eastern Market/Russell St.
10. St. Aubin St./E. Vernor Hwy

This does NOT stop or in any way replace the need for mass transit to the suburbs, which would in my vision still be a subway system. I’ve seen many visionary maps on this by other people.

[Sthoms3355]

Sorry Michigan Ave. NOT Grand River

[Richard]

It’s not the concept,you have a current system that is 10 - 15 years past it’s life expectancy.

The same system that Canada has and is getting rid of after an accident,they figured sense it was 10 years past it’s life expectancy and you cannot get parts for them,it was time to renew the system,that system had high ridership rates with a demanding task to full fill,ridden hard and put away wet.

So the idea comes up for Detroit to buy the cars and parts from Canada in order to keep its current system going and expand it - with a system that is already past its life expectancy.

There were 3 systems designed and built at that time,nobody makes parts for them anymore so if something happens then the system is down while you fabricate a new part.

So you need reliability and cost effective in order to maintain positive public input and be able to operate a system economically.

If this gets implemented and it is not reliable and cost effective,it will give reason for the naysayers to harden their positions and say - see I told you so.

[mikeg19]

Chris and Marion will also ensure there is a stop at MotorCity Casino.....

Seriously though, it would be great if there was an expanded PM roaming to the outreaches of the CBD. However as others have pointed out, there are several reasons why it may just not make sense economically to do so. If you had Q line running up Gratiot, GR, Michigan, and Jefferson, you basically eliminate the need for the PM expansion as you'd have Q stations within a block or 2 of all the major items you want to cover with a PM expansion. I'd be very open to hearing the proposal they come up with and what the cost/timing would be to implement it.

[Sehv313]

I think the expansion of the People Mover is a wonderful idea. More rides that don’t affect traffic. The Q Line is ok but once you are in a traffic jam you’re literally at a stand still. If the people mover goes to Midtown and Corktown it would definitely be an improvement. The Q Line is sadly just another bus down Woodward, only slower.

[Sehv313]

If you want to run another streetcar down Michigan avenue okay, but expand the People Mover? That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a while.

Wow, so much anger? What did The People Mover do to you except move faster and more efficient than the Q Line?

[casscorridor]

It’s not the concept,you have a current system that is 10 - 15 years past it’s life expectancy.

The same system that Canada has and is getting rid of after an accident,they figured sense it was 10 years past it’s life expectancy and you cannot get parts for them,it was time to renew the system,that system had high ridership rates with a demanding task to full fill,ridden hard and put away wet.

So the idea comes up for Detroit to buy the cars and parts from Canada in order to keep its current system going and expand it - with a system that is already past its life expectancy.

There were 3 systems designed and built at that time,nobody makes parts for them anymore so if something happens then the system is down while you fabricate a new part.

So you need reliability and cost effective in order to maintain positive public input and be able to operate a system economically.

If this gets implemented and it is not reliable and cost effective,it will give reason for the naysayers to harden their positions and say - see I told you so.

Detroit PM is not past its life expectancy, unless you're only referring to the rolling stock. Automated light-metro systems [[which is the PM is) are common around the world, so this wouldn't be a problem to replace. I'm assuming the system in Canada you are referring to is the Scarborough RT. But this is being replaced with the entirely new Ontario Line. And Vancouver uses the same tech and is expanding their system.

[Richard]

Detroit PM is not past its life expectancy, unless you're only referring to the rolling stock. Automated light-metro systems [[which is the PM is) are common around the world, so this wouldn't be a problem to replace. I'm assuming the system in Canada you are referring to is the Scarborough RT. But this is being replaced with the entirely new Ontario Line. And Vancouver uses the same tech and is expanding their system.

The Scarborough RT rolling stock is what Detroit is buying,because it matches the PM in Detroit ,there was only 3 of those systems built,so they are not all over the world,they are unique on themselves.

Rails do no good if to do not have rolling stock,the PM is 37 years old.

A half-dozen rail cars will start rolling again in the coming weeks on the iconic elevated loop downtown, but upwards of $100 million will be needed to keep the People Mover going and relevant in the years to come.

The most pressing, Bulluck said, is a new fleet of about a dozen rail cars, which would run $50-60 million.

The existing cars are original to the system and only have about five years of useful life left.

“The vehicles used [[today) aren’t made anymore,” he said. “It’ll look a lot more futuristic.

https://www.bridgedetroit.com/people...etroit-riders/

After the accident Canada did the same survey and decided it was more cost effective to scrap the system because it was also stated as 10 years past their service lifetime.

Why do you think Canada is selling them to Detroit ?

It’s a fully automated system built 35 years ago,you cannot just go buy the new cars off of the shelf like other transit systems.

The technology used is like using a Bag phone for a cell phone,where are you going to find a 35 year old computer board ?

[rbdetsport]

Again, why is everyone forgetting that Vancouver is expanding their automated people mover system as I write this? They use the same technology as the people mover so I don't understand where anyone is getting that information from.

In terms of the one-way loop, this is not a complete detriment to expanding the system outward along the spokes as two-way tracks. Once the train gets to the loop, then yes it goes around the one-way until it arrives back at its particular line. I believe this can be done and as soon as everyone sees the usability of this technology when it is done in a corridor-specific manner, then you will see more support for it.

There is absolutely no reason why the People Mover cannot be expanded from the downtown loop all the way out to DTW. One can imagine travelers getting on at McNamara Terminal and taking the train all the way to their hotel in the RenCen. When they leave, they jump right back on at their hotel's front door onward around the quick loop and out to DTW. Here would be my proposed stations after leaving the final station along the loop at Rosa Parks TC:

Down Michigan Ave -
- 3rd St/MGM Grand
- Corktown
- Michigan Central Station [[underground in front of station)
- Michigan/Grand Blvd
- Livernois
- Claytown/Lonyo
- Eastborn
- Greenfield
- Fairlane/Ford HQ
- Dingell TC
- Westborn

Turn Down Telegraph -
- Telegraph/Crowley Park
- Telegraph/Van Born
- Airport North TC/Rental Car Facility
- Terminal E
- Terminal M

At the same time, I would build initial two-way rail from the loop out Grand River and Gratiot. Down Grand River to Core City. Down Gratiot to Warren. These could eventually be expanded further down both spokes.

I would plan for and/or build crosstown routes along Warren from Core City to Gratiot/Warren and along Mack from North Corktown to McDougall Hunt. The Warren connector would function as its own line [[to be expanded further in each direction down Warren in the future), whereas the Mack connector would operate as a separate line from Core City down Grand River to North Corktown, and then turning down Mack and then back up Gratiot to Gratiot/Warren [[to be expanded up Grand River and up Gratiot and Van Dyke in the future). So imagine that Core City, North Corktown, McDougall Hunt, and Gratiot/Warren would all have double the frequency.

None of this is crazy, and it is possible if we actually want it.

[Gistok]

Back when the PM first opened up I went on a tour of the Maintenance facility which is located at the Times Square Station. The facility is 2 blocks long and is ENORMOUS!! From what I remembered of the tour, it has the capacity to house 50 of the double connected PM cars, which would be able to handle expansion of the system.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3328...!1e3?entry=ttu

[rbdetsport]

Like so..Attachment 42975

And taking it much further...

[Richard]

Again, why is everyone forgetting that Vancouver is expanding their automated people mover system as I write this? They use the same technology as the people mover so I don't understand where anyone is getting that information from.

In terms of the one-way loop, this is not a complete detriment to expanding the system outward along the spokes as two-way tracks. Once the train gets to the loop, then yes it goes around the one-way until it arrives back at its particular line. I believe this can be done and as soon as everyone sees the usability of this technology when it is done in a corridor-specific manner, then you will see more support for it.

There is absolutely no reason why the People Mover cannot be expanded from the downtown loop all the way out to DTW. One can imagine travelers getting on at McNamara Terminal and taking the train all the way to their hotel in the RenCen. When they leave, they jump right back on at their hotel's front door onward around the quick loop and out to DTW. Here would be my proposed stations after leaving the final station along the loop at Rosa Parks TC:

Down Michigan Ave -
- 3rd St/MGM Grand
- Corktown
- Michigan Central Station [[underground in front of station)
- Michigan/Grand Blvd
- Livernois
- Claytown/Lonyo
- Eastborn
- Greenfield
- Fairlane/Ford HQ
- Dingell TC
- Westborn

Turn Down Telegraph -
- Telegraph/Crowley Park
- Telegraph/Van Born
- Airport North TC/Rental Car Facility
- Terminal E
- Terminal M

At the same time, I would build initial two-way rail from the loop out Grand River and Gratiot. Down Grand River to Core City. Down Gratiot to Warren. These could eventually be expanded further down both spokes.

I would plan for and/or build crosstown routes along Warren from Core City to Gratiot/Warren and along Mack from North Corktown to McDougall Hunt. The Warren connector would function as its own line [[to be expanded further in each direction down Warren in the future), whereas the Mack connector would operate as a separate line from Core City down Grand River to North Corktown, and then turning down Mack and then back up Gratiot to Gratiot/Warren [[to be expanded up Grand River and up Gratiot and Van Dyke in the future). So imagine that Core City, North Corktown, McDougall Hunt, and Gratiot/Warren would all have double the frequency.

None of this is crazy, and it is possible if we actually want it.

The information being provided is supplied in the link,it’s not being made up.

Vancouver is expanding its system with $3.5 billion dollars worth of new stuff ,you are talking about expanding a 35 year old system with adding 35 year old technology.

It’s not that complicated,no where has it been announced anywhere in Detroit that you are getting ready to spend $3.4 billion to expand the PM ,they already told you they are buying the rolling stock and parts from Canadas old system and that what they plan on using to expand.

The PM is 1 of 3 systems,you are buying 1 from Canada that leaves 1 more out there.

They are compatible with nothing else produced - ever

You cannot integrate a 1976 Ford pinto with a 2024 Ford explorer or even ask the 1976 Ford Pinto to identify as a 2024 Ford Explorer- it just does not work.

You cannot say these systems are in place across the world,when you will now have the only 2 out of 3 in existence,there is zero comparison to the technology of 35 years ago to today.

The other systems use the same concept but it ends there,it’s no different then owning a car,you still have to maintain it,it cost more to maintain an old car then a new one and when it comes to transit the cost of maintenance plays a big part in its feasibility.

If you do not believe it,how do you propose to expand a system that has 35 year old technology with a new system that will never mesh with the existing one.

Even the Detroit survey said there is 5 years life expectancy left in the existing PM,the stuff you are buying from Canada is 10 years past it’s life expectancy,that’s why they made the decision to spend the money and go with an all new system.

Canada already told you what it would cost to replace the existing PM with new technology while expanding it . $3.4 billion

Which is what you owe Canada for your half of the bridge.

It has zero to do with weather it needs to be done,the point is it is an old system,it takes money and nobody is going to back an expansion of a 35 year old system that by the city’s own account has 5 years left on its life expectancy.

So you have to pay for it out of your general fund,that’s over $100 million plus for the existing PM plus the additional hundreds of million on the expansion.

Which is insane,you are better off doing it right from the start,spend what it takes and get it funded and financed and put a new system in that will not bleed you to death in upkeep and takes you into the future and out of the past.

If you were going to buy a house,you would not use your $500k cash on hand,you would finance it and invest your cash on something that draws interest over what your payment is.

The raised rail system is far more expensive to implement,even more so sense you still have the ROW from the old street car system on the books,it still exists as a company,it never went away.

The state received $1 billion over 5 years to improve public transportation in the infrastructure bill,that’s spread out across the entire state.

You should have rejected that because you would have got more over that 5 year period if you actually had a representative in Washington that was lobbying the FTA for the grants specifically for the city.

So now that leaves you with funding it out of your general fund,which is very risky,selling bonds or attracting private investment.

Selling the bonds and private investment you will not do with putting bandaids on and expanding an outdated system,it’s more cost effective and less risk to the taxpayers and the payment is spread out over many years to put a new system in.

You say there is no reason in the world that it cannot be done,well there is one,it takes money,billions,you can come up with 1000 different dream routes of where to run lines but it is pointless because you are getting ahead of yourself,figuring out where to put a line is the easy part,paying for it is not so easy,so you need to spend a little more time in getting your ducks in a row and figuring out how to get it funded first.

The goal would be to do it without increasing the taxes on an already overly tax burdened residents,not easy,but not impossible.

[K-slice]

This thread got greatly derailed [[pun intended) from Duggan's statement. He didn't say anything about a People Mover extension, or adding new loops, or anything like that. He talked about a "reconfiguration", specifically connecting all the high-rises and skyscrapers in downtown.

Any kind of people mover extension is never going to happen. It could have at some point in the past but that time is gone.

Detroit, unlike Vancouver, or Chicago, or any number of cities doesn't need expensive elevated rail due to our heavily overbuilt and unused right of ways. Particularly if you're talking about something that will take people short distances, MCS, Belle Isle, etc.

Now if there was ever the desire to create actual regional transit, outside of the city limits, then we'd need to go elevated, but no one is talking about that currently and probably never will. Connecting the growing areas in Detroit is what we should strive for right now, and that's easy enough to do on the ground.

[Richard]

It’s just discussing,have to get people involved.

But yea,it is dealing with the last mile or putting the caboose before the engine.

Agreed, connecting the surrounding cities should be the focus and easy enough because the ROW is still there.