Why reduce the bloated govt. when you can raise taxes?

[irish_mafia]

Granholm urged to raise taxes to balance budget by A newly formed coalition of education, labor and social service agencies calling itself A Better Michigan Future.

http://freep.com/article/20090902/NE...-to-fix-budget

Self-interested labor groups asking for more money from an already overtaxed State. Yes, that's helpful.

[Detroitnerd]

Just legalizing marijuana would free up millions of dollars in prison expenses. That would be my first move.

[Quonset Hut]

Just legalizing marijuana would free up millions of dollars in prison expenses. That would be my first move.

I thought we were trying to lower hunger in Detroit

[Retroit]

Did it ever occur to these idiots that even if taxes were 100%, the fools in Lansing [[and Washington and Detroit) would still find a way of creating a deficit?

[Bearinabox]

Retroit, you probably shouldn't call people idiots. Glass houses and all that.

[Retroit]

Retroit, you probably shouldn't call people idiots. Glass houses and all that.

True, would "fiscally challenged" be un-offensive enough?

[Detroitnerd]

They tell us we can have it all, low taxes, great services, endless war. Who is the idiot? The one who says something way too good to be true? Or the person who signs on for the obvious lie?

[Retroit]

They tell us we can have it all, low taxes, great services, endless war. Who is the idiot? The one who says something way too good to be true? Or the person who signs on for the obvious lie?

Both.......

[Detroitnerd]

Both.......

Only if they believe what they say. I think they don't. [[It's politically expedient to just crash the system then point to what they want cut -- usually education, health and human services, etc.)

[elganned]

Just legalizing marijuana would free up millions of dollars in prison expenses. That would be my first move.

Hear, hear! Not only would it lower prison and court and law enforcement expenses, it would provide a lucrative new tax revenue stream to fund other programs like education.

And with all the exhorbitant profit taken out of it--caused by the artificial scarcity of being illegal and therefore hard to get--it would put a serious kink in the incomes of the gangs.

[Detroitnerd]

Legalize marijuana? Don't believe politicians who blow sunshine up our asses?

We better turn this thread back to tax-hating quick, or Irish will act up.

[Bearinabox]

True, would "fiscally challenged" be un-offensive enough?

If you aren't fiscally challenged yourself, then it's probably safe to use on other people. Just don't call any kettles black until you're sure you aren't a pot.

Incidentally, it has more to do with self-awareness than with being offensive; really, that "idiots" comment was one of the less-offensive things you've posted on here.

[irish_mafia]

Only if they believe what they say. I think they don't. [[It's politically expedient to just crash the system then point to what they want cut -- usually education, health and human services, etc.)

How much per child is spent on DPS?

How many businesses have put up operations in other states because of Michigan's ugly tax and union situtaion? How much money was LOST due to these tax policies?

I believe every bit of what I say and watch while the decrepit policies that this city and state have taken on have destroyed our economy. The end resultsof these policies are poverty, illiteracy, unemployment and lack of proper health care. All caused by a system that was supposed to help proovide these these things in the world view of a tax and spend, union supporting liberal. Your expeiment didn't work and now the State and Detroit are both broke.

[Stosh]

How much per child is spent on DPS?

How many businesses have put up operations in other states because of Michigan's ugly tax and union situtaion? How much money was LOST due to these tax policies?

I believe every bit of what I say and watch while the decrepit policies that this city and state have taken on have destroyed our economy. The end resultsof these policies are poverty, illiteracy, unemployment and lack of proper health care. All caused by a system that was supposed to help proovide these these things in the world view of a tax and spend, union supporting liberal. Your expeiment didn't work and now the State and Detroit are both broke.

Attacking the DPS is just short-sighted. You DO realize that the State has a Constitutional obligation to fund the school systems statewide, don't you? There's a lot of other school districts in the state that are just as badly managed, they aren't as high profile as DPS though. And in Republican districts, to boot.

The tax policy of the state was ruined under John Engler. Look into all the leases Johnny boy entered into on behalf of the state, it might surprise you. Also the liquor privatization. Where's the savings? His tax cuts ruined this state. Name a business that can come here now, because we are so piss poor broke because of his inane tax policy. Lets be real here. You have to have money to give tax cuts. We dont.

[Stosh]

Example of pure, abject stupidity.

July 14, 2000
Contact: John Truscott
[[517) 335-6397
Governor Engler Signs 26th Tax Cut SBT Phase-out to Benefit Families, Consumers & Job Providers

At a small business in Southfield, Governor John Engler today signed a package of bills that will phase-out Michigan’s Single Business Tax – his 26th tax cut since taking office in 1991.

Also this nugget:

To put things in a financial perspective, the 1999 value of John Engler’s 25 tax cuts [[put in place over eight-plus years), is $2.35 billion. This figure does not include offsetting gas tax and fee increases. In 1999, the Engler gas tax hike is expected to raise $191 million.

[irish_mafia]

Let's be real here. High taxes and heavy handed unions discourage investment and REDUCE REVENUE.

There is a bloated govt. in Lansing and Detroit...cut it down

[HazenPingree]

Just legalizing marijuana would free up millions of dollars in prison expenses. That would be my first move.

I've been saying that for years. Less puritanical morally judgmental laws. Allow bars to stay open longer, allow the sale of hooch before noon on Sunday, legalize [[and regulate and heavily tax) marijuana and we bring in more tax revenue and save on jail costs. Maybe we could even finally afford to build comprehensive urban transportation systems so we could cut down on drunk driving too...

[ThaFuzz]

I believe every bit of what I say

That's great! I'm sure your place in Free Market Capitalism Heaven is secure!

...and watch while the decrepit policies that this city and state have taken on have destroyed our economy. The end resultsof these policies are poverty, illiteracy, unemployment and lack of proper health care. All caused by a system that was supposed to help proovide these these things in the world view of a tax and spend, union supporting liberal. Your expeiment didn't work and now the State and Detroit are both broke.

Ah, yes. None of those social ills existed prior to 2003. DAMN YOU, JENNY FROM THE BLOCK!!!

Let's be real here. High taxes and heavy handed unions discourage investment and REDUCE REVENUE.

Corporate executive and investor greed is completely innocent in all of this.

There is a bloated govt. in Lansing and Detroit...cut it down

How about less WHARRRGARRBLLL and more helpful suggestions?

[Stosh]

I just thought to reprise my above quote with a little factual info from elsewhere.
Using the quote below:

To put things in a financial perspective, the 1999 value of John Engler’s 25 tax cuts [[put in place over eight-plus years), is $2.35 billion. This figure does not include offsetting gas tax and fee increases. In 1999, the Engler gas tax hike is expected to raise $191 million.

Then adjusting for inflation using 1999 values versus 2009 values of money:

$2,350,000,000.00 in 1999 had about the same buying power as $3,014,280,048.81 in 2009.
Annual inflation over this period was about 2.52%.

Thanks John! Does anyone really notice these tax cuts?

[DetroitDad]

This is outrages. We don't need more government run programs for higher taxes, we need less.

There were some protesters in Grand Circus Park today, and I caught one of their signs that read; "Health care is a human right", or something to that affect. Shouldn't healthcare be worked for? I mean, seriously, should we feed everyone and offer food insurance as well?

These views are crazy. A government service isn't a right, and the forced raising of taxes prove that.

[7miledog]

How many businesses have put up operations in other states because of Michigan's ugly tax and union situtaion? How much money was LOST due to these tax policies?

Umm, I don't know. But I'm sure you do since you refer to it as fact to prove your point. So how many businesses have put up oeprations in other states, and how much money was lost?

The facts are that there is one "set" of governments that have continuously operated since our country was founded. Conservatives always decry that government is a failure or cannot do things as well as the private sector, but how many businesses go out of business? Something like 90% in their FIRST YEAR of business. With a success rate of 10% within 12 months, I'll take my chances with publicly operated public goods.

Government programs are a failure? Let's see, social security and medicare were established under a completely different set of assumptions than are applicable today, and I don't believe there has been much adjusting of these programs. The fact that they still survive decades later on outdated assumptions actually seems to indicate that government runs things pretty damn well.

The facts are that conservatives play off of what can be safely assumed to be a universal truth that we all have had at least one bad experience with government, therefore government is bad. Unfortunately, most voters are pretty damn stupid and believe the nonsense that is the very essence of GOP ideology.

[Lorax]

Until we realize that only by embracing socialism in it's entirety will we ever be able to compete globally.

Japan, Germany, and the rest of the EU, now China, all provide a single payer health care system. We need to get with the program, stop illegal wars that waste trillions that could be spent on our own people. Instead of railing against Americans, why don't we learn to take care of each other?

Enough with the phony right wing outrage over lies about health care reform. The majority of us don't want to be slaves to the corporate fascism of United Health Scare and others. Medicare for all, which we can well afford when we strip the Pentagon of it's wasteful trillions, end the Bush tax cuts for the rich, levy a 2% tax hike on the top 5% of wage earners, and it's solved.

Or we could return to real Republican rule as under Eisenhower and embrace a 91% marginal tax rate.

What we are living through right now is unsustainable. We will need major change to survive.

[elganned]

Well, we could always balance the state budget by shutting down U of M and MSU.
That would save us a bundle and the Republicans wouldn't have to suffer those effete ivory-tower academics any more.

[firstandten]

Truthfully, how are we going to compete globally with countries that already have lower wages now they are providing universal single payer healthcare, and we are clinging to an employer based model for health care.

I mean I didn't want globalization but we are there now so what do we do ?

Over the span of 20 years for republicans and 8 years for republican lite our economy has been so thoroughly dismantled, our manufacturing base so devastated [[ unless of course you are a defense contrator they are making a lot of weapons) that its going to take years and years to get back to the point were we are making something.

When will we as a people began to understand that this fiscal conservative line the republicans give us is false, they bloated the economy by spending [[especially for defense) crazy after cutting taxes. The deregulation and trade policies encouraged companies to set up business across the pond. Its all about winning elections, they care about you only to the extent that they would have you believe that this mess is all the democrats fault, see we cut your taxes. What they leave out is all the other things they did to the economy as well as cut your taxes.

And now, you want things to go back to the way they were. Get ready, at some point there will be increased taxes. Its seems like we always want to drink champagne on a beer budget.

[humanmachinery]

Spending has already been cut to the bone.

Additionally, Michigan ranks in the middle of all states in total state and local tax burden. Research shows that states with low tax rates and "right to work" legislation aren't exempt from crappy economies and budget problems. Alabama is a fine example of this.

We currently have two options: raise taxes, or lay off the state troopers and close all the prisons, schools, and roads.

Wait much longer, and we will have to do both.