New Arena on the Horizon??

[esp1986]

I know there is a lot here, but be patient, there are a lot of little things that strangely point toward the fact here. There has been a lot of speculation surrounding the Detroit Red Wings and their arena situation heading into the final year of their lease at Joe Louis Arena. Over the weekend, I took some time to do some research both downtown and on the web and all signs are pointing to the possibility of a new arena for the Red Wings in the not-too-distant future. The Ilitches have been cleaning up or renovating properties they purchased years ago with a new arena in mind in the area west of Foxtown and in proximity. For example, the Fine Arts building has been torn down, facade preserved, and is ready for a redevelopment that may occur should there end up being a new arena just west of there. Also, the 'mystery work' going on at the United Artists Theatre Building appears to be that of a clean up, so it is ready should someone want to renovate the building in the near future. Third, the Detroit Life Building, immediately west of the Fox Theatre, is under renovation for use by Ilitch Holdings for office space. All of this renovation, specifically the clean-up of the United Artists and the Fine Arts Building signal something may be coming. I find it hard to believe that the facade alone of the Fine Arts Building would be preserved unless there was likely to be some sort of development in the very near future. Now don't just go saying "it is about time that slumlord cleaned some of those places up" like many of you do in this forum, because the Ilitches are anything but slumlords compared to many others in the city, there just has never been the demand for them to develop much of what they own. But nonetheless, given the fact that the Red Wings elected not to renew their lease, and said that renovation of 'The Joe' is the responsibility of it's owner, the nearly bankrupt City of Detroit, the fact that they were going to look to a new lease for a much shorter term [[to provide time to build a new arena), the fact that they have approached Wayne County about financing for a new arena, according to a Robert Ficano quote in the Detroit News back in June, and the recent cleanup of a few Ilitch owned properties in the direct vicinity of the rumored location for a new arena west of Foxtown. Could all of this be a coincidence? Yes, however that does seem unlikely in this economy. It has also been rumored that they were waiting for the economy to improve a bit before they would pursue a new arena, giving them time to clean up these buildings. The biggest thing to me is with the economy so bad, why would they be cleaning up buildings like the Fine Arts and United Artists unless they had near term plans in mind?? I mean the facade of that building isn't going to last forever regardless of what is holding it up. So with all of these things strangely seeming to point toward a new arena in the next 5-8 years or so, what do you all think??

[Retroit]

I think you're right. Unfortunately, this will mean yet another vacant eyesore [[Joe Louis Arena). Our infatuation with new stadiums is very disturbing.

[esp1986]

I think you're right. Unfortunately, this will mean yet another vacant eyesore [[Joe Louis Arena). Our infatuation with new stadiums is very disturbing.

unfortunately that's what the country is coming to these days... but 'The Joe' is old and outdated, one of the mostso in the NHL and the way the arena was designed and with the land it is on, neither provide any room for creative change to the building itself.

[Retroit]

True. As long as the removal of the old stadium is a pre-condition of building a new one, and as long as no tax dollars are used, I don't have a problem with it.

[bailey]

True. As long as the removal of the old stadium is a pre-condition of building a new one, and as long as no tax dollars are used, I don't have a problem with it.

Well, get ready to have a huge problem with it because JLA will no doubt stand empty ..or little used for decades just like OTS, Ford auditorium and Cobo arena and; no stadium gets built without tax dollars.

[izzyindetroit]

Well, get ready to have a huge problem with it because JLA will no doubt stand empty ..or little used for decades just like OTS, Ford auditorium and Cobo arena and; no stadium gets built without tax dollars.

Why is Old Tiger Stadium still standing?

[EastSider]

given the fact that the Red Wings elected not to renew their lease, and said that renovation of 'The Joe' is the responsibility of it's owner, the nearly bankrupt City of Detroit, the fact that they were going to look to a new lease for a much shorter term [[to provide time to build a new arena),

Could the transfer of Cobo to a regional authority have anything to do with a new lease for the Wings at the Joe? Aren't Cobo Hall, Cobo Arena and Joe Louis Arena all part of the city's convention center?

It's possible that the new lease was needed to separate the Joe from Cobo Arena/Cobo Hall so the renovation work on those two properties could proceed.

[[And in the future, please remember that the 'enter' key is your friend. Solid blocks of text are not cute.)

[esp1986]

Could the transfer of Cobo to a regional authority have anything to do with a new lease for the Wings at the Joe? Aren't Cobo Hall, Cobo Arena and Joe Louis Arena all part of the city's convention center?

It's possible that the new lease was needed to separate the Joe from Cobo Arena/Cobo Hall so the renovation work on those two properties could proceed.

[[And in the future, please remember that the 'enter' key is your friend. Solid blocks of text are not cute.)

Joe Louis Arena and Cobo Arena were, in fact, leased together. But, why in the world would they want a lease that was much shorter than the extension amount that was declined. The city will not renovate the arena unless there is a long term committment from the team, as much as 20-30 years. This is not the 'shorter lease' that the team has mentioned, so with all facts accounted for, it still indicates a new arena may be built in the next five years or so.

[ScienceFair]

Not to dampen the optimism for a new Wings arena, but the projects you mentioned [[Detroit Life, Fine Atrts) have been in the works since 2007, when a new arena may have been planned. The downturn in the economy killed any momentum building for a new arena in the Illitch camp. I'm still hoping for a new arena behind the Fox, but not expecting anything in the next couple years.

[szla]

The Detroit Life Building is really getting renovated right now?

[showstoppa]

First time posting here in a while, but what about of rumors of the Pistons possibly sharing a arena with the Red Wings and moving back to Detroit ?

Also what about the site across from MotorCity casino for a arena ? Marion Ilitch owns the casino and I hear that's a possible site as well

[David Hall]

I haven't seen any work in the Detroit Life building in at least a year.
Also, Solid Block of Text?

[cheddar bob]

I haven't seen any work in the Detroit Life building in at least a year.
Also, Solid Block of Text?

They let anybody in here nowadays.

[Det_ard]

X-post to Stating the Obvious.

[crawford]

Every two months someone makes the exact same post, without a single piece of evidence of such an undertaking.

And no, "The Illitches tore down a building" is not compelling evidence.

The Illitches do not have the money for an arena, and the city and state likely wouldn't contribute.

The Illitches also don't have a partner, like the Pistons. You can't build a single-use arena without massive government subsidies. Single-use arenas, are, almost without exception, massive money losers.

So unless the Pistons are willing to come downtown, or unless Granholm is willing to give the Illitches a couple of hundred million in this economy, this isn't happening anytime soon.

[jerrytimes]

The Ilitches don't have the money for an arena? Is that a joke or are you serious?

[dnvn522]

And we've been speculating about a new arena behind the Fox since at least '05. I've still got a crap load of aerial photos on my computer with a superimposed JLA and Palace on different plots of land.

[KOMPOST]

Every two months someone makes the exact same post, without a single piece of evidence of such an undertaking.

And no, "The Illitches tore down a building" is not compelling evidence.

The Illitches do not have the money for an arena, and the city and state likely wouldn't contribute.

The Illitches also don't have a partner, like the Pistons. You can't build a single-use arena without massive government subsidies. Single-use arenas, are, almost without exception, massive money losers.

So unless the Pistons are willing to come downtown, or unless Granholm is willing to give the Illitches a couple of hundred million in this economy, this isn't happening anytime soon.

Hmmm...with such authority, too.
Listen, I'm not saying this IS going to happen soon, but it's going to happen.
Also, your assertion that [[Ilitch) CAN'T build without massive government subsidies should be changed to "would prefer not to". Then, I agree.

[BShea]

Mike Ilitch paid for more than half of Comerica Park out of his own pocket. Corporate dollars and tax dollars paid for the rest. A $300-$400 million multi-use facility as a new home of the Wings makes more long-term sense, in terms of generate additional revenue for the franchise, than a retrofitted JLA.

My read on the matter has always been Olympia will seek a short-term JLA lease to allow time for the local and national economic climate to improve, which will make it easier for the Ilitches to debt finance at better interest rates and to approach the city and state for tax dollars in a less hostile atmosphere.

The Ilitches are estimated to be worth about $1.3 billion by Forbes, but that doesn't provide any insight on how much liquidity that have to finance a new arena. Based on the historical willingness of public bodies to help finance venues, it makes logical sense for them to go that route. That makes the most business sense from their point of view.

They have until June 30 to craft a new lease with the city, and I have great difficulty in believing that the city would dare broach the idea of financing either JLA renovation or funding a new arena between now and then. I also don't see the Ilitches and Karen Davidson/Palace Sports sharing time at the Palace of Auburn Hills. So look for a short-term JLA lease with Olympia, probably 5 or 10 years with clauses built in that allow Olympia to exit early. It could even be another 20 or 30-year lease with such early-exit language built in.

I suppose it's possible Olympia and Palace could decided to build a new venue together, but I consider that very unlikely.

[esp1986]

I suppose it's possible Olympia and Palace could decided to build a new venue together, but I consider that very unlikely.

Given the relatively youthful age of the Palace, as well as all of the money that has been poured into it recently for significant renovations [[including some of the remote location suites, beneath the playing surface, that were designed with sporting events in mind), I, too, find it unlikely that they would partake in a new venue.

[softailrider]

Not to dampen the optimism for a new Wings arena, but the projects you mentioned [[Detroit Life, Fine Atrts) have been in the works since 2007, when a new arena may have been planned. The downturn in the economy killed any momentum building for a new arena in the Illitch camp. I'm still hoping for a new arena behind the Fox, but not expecting anything in the next couple years.

You got that right, new arena was a total GO back in 2006, to the point where they were purchasing monitors for the passageways. Economy put the project on hold. Lack of regular season and playoff sellouts has further stalled it.

[Danny]

There is no way for Illitches to build a new Red Wings Arena in the fox town area. There are still people who own several buidings just west of the Fox Theatre. If they want Illitch to build his new stadium. It have to be some money involve with 8 to 9 zeros on the side. I suggest to have Illitches to build his New Red Wingns Area at the Old Tiger Stadium site. Plenty of space for parking and building new prime development retail. It would help to bring extra revenue dollars back to Corktown and revitize the Michigan and Trumbull retail district.

[Matt]

There is no way for Illitches to build a new Red Wings Arena in the fox town area. There are still people who own several buidings just west of the Fox Theatre. If they want Illitch to build his new stadium. It have to be some money involve with 8 to 9 zeros on the side. I suggest to have Illitches to build his New Red Wingns Area at the Old Tiger Stadium site. Plenty of space for parking and building new prime development retail. It would help to bring extra revenue dollars back to Corktown and revitize the Michigan and Trumbull retail district.

If by revitalize, you mean people tailgating, leaving their empty cups and beer cans and pissing on various building, then sure.

[crawford]

The Ilitches don't have the money for an arena? Is that a joke or are you serious?

I'm serious. You think they just have a half-billion sitting around, waiting to burn?

They're wealthy but not THAT wealthy.

And people do not become successful like they have by doing stupid things like building a money-pit half-billion dollar arena, when they can get the public to pay for it in better times.

[Retroit]

crawford, don't Comerica Park and Ford Field disprove your point? Did the Ilitches have a "half-billion sitting around" for Comerica Park, or Bill Ford for Ford Field? Aren't they both "single-use arenas"?