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    Quote Originally Posted by oladub View Post
    Let's use Obama as an example. I don't think he considered himself a racist. i don't even think he intended to cause race problems. However, during Obama's administration black wealth, incomes, and home ownership rates declined more than those of whites". Racial harmony also declined during the Obama years as measured in surveys. His administration overthrew Khaddafi, and attempted to overthrow Assad contributing to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Arabs* and millions of refugees. My guess is that Obama didn't intend for all these bad things to happen so much as he wasn't up to the job. My point is that Obama who claimed not to be racist caused some race problems. Trump, who says all sorts of outrageous things; some considered racist, on the other hand, has brought record employment to the Hispanic and black communities. Should we vote for language or results?

    *Arabs might be considered 'brown people' by identity politics promotors. Identity politics begets identity politics reactions. I wonder if thats what is intended by promoters of identity politics. If it is, it might segue into your last sentence.
    Let's put aside some arguments I find specious.........

    Instead let me point out you are conflating 2 rather different concepts there.

    One is racism. The other is systemic racism. [[a term I dislike, but understand)

    Racism speaks to intent. The choice to knowingly discriminate, at least subconsciously based on race. Knowingly I think is obvious, this is when you say 'All/most Mexicans are rapists' or 'I don't trust black people' etc.

    Subconscious meaning you may not mean to be racist per se or think you are, but as a landlord you decided not to rent to the young black couple, even though there is no meritorious reason not to, because you preferred the young white couple. If you say that wasn't racist, because you didn't dislike/hate the black couple; yet can't find any factual reason for that choice [[bad credit rating, lack of references etc.) then that certainly appears to be motivated by racism.

    By contrast, systemic racism is when the way in which a system or process is constructed has a racist effect; even where there is no evidence of ill intent [[and indeed there may be none).

    An example of the above might be a requirement for police to be clean-shaven, which would preclude Sikh's, who are prohibited by their faith from cutting their hair, including their beards.

    That requirement, in some forces, was put in long before anyone contemplated a Sikh applicant for reasons that had nothing to do w/racism. Yet, the effect of the regulation is to preclude someone of a specific background. [[arguably religious rather than racial, though there is an overlap between ethnicity/faith in this context).

    Put another way, if one President did not seek to cause harm to a group of a particular background, but happened to do so that is not racist in that there was no intent.

    If another President chooses to demonize a group, such that they are more likely to be victims of discrimination and hate, and possibly violence, that is very clearly racist, and there is no disputing the intent.
    Last edited by Canadian Visitor; August-09-19 at 04:11 AM.

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