Restoration of the Michigan Central Depot
MICHIGAN CENTRAL RESTORATION PROGRESSES »

FUN THINGS TO DO IN DETROIT »



Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5
Results 101 to 123 of 123
  1. #101

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oladub View Post
    Taking your comment in the light of ironic humor, you rare probably correct.

    Democrats + Chamber of Commerce Republicans = majority for open borders
    Two points:
    1. Yes, ironic and pointed, because a majority in this country should mean the will of the people.

    2. Really, do you meet a lot of people who say yes, send the border patrol home and let everyone in? Because I haven't. Someone can want the US to have a controlled border while at the same time wanting to treat people humanely and to come up with solutions rather than using immigration as a way to stir up voters.

  2. #102

    Default

    ^^^ Yep... too often it is put forth that if you want a controlled border you're racist, xeno, etc.

    Trumps comments and rhetoric have helped feed into that.

    But he'll not be president forever and the edgy policies set forth now will be with us for a long time.
    Last edited by Zacha341; August-12-19 at 09:15 AM.

  3. #103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by archfan View Post
    Two points:
    1. Yes, ironic and pointed, because a majority in this country should mean the will of the people.

    2. Really, do you meet a lot of people who say yes, send the border patrol home and let everyone in? Because I haven't. Someone can want the US to have a controlled border while at the same time wanting to treat people humanely and to come up with solutions rather than using immigration as a way to stir up voters.
    I was hoping that the will of the people was at least represented in Congress and laws it passes. You might be confusing mob rule, plutocratic campaign funding and anarchy with Constitution law which says that Congress is delegated with establishing uniform naturalization laws. The Constitution also says that the federal government has a duty to defend our borders from invasion. If illegal non-citizens can ignore posted immigration signs, I want to at least be able to violate laws of my choosing; maybe go through red lights when I don't see anyone coming or pay all my taxes. Others might want to be vigilantes. That's worse.

    In the final scene of Romeo and Juliet, the Prince blames himself for letting things get out of hand "And I for winking at your discords too have lost a brace of kinsmen. All are punished".

    Over 100,000 illegal non-citizens a month were being captured by the border patrol in recent months and the border patrol estimates it catches about 54% of illegal border crossers. An estimated 11M illegal non-citizens live and work in the U.S.. That number never seems to change even with 100,000 people sneaking across the border monthly. Policies that allow that do let that many people in. The solution is to enforce our laws, elect representatives who do so and stop incentivizing illegal non-citizens from coming here. This pandering, in turn, leads to incarcerations, drownings, and rapes along the journey. People who incentivize all this discord should accept more responsibility for things getting out of hand.

    Caveat: There is a legal way of entering the U.S.. It is expensive, tricky, and time consuming but immigrants who matriculate are treated humanely or at least like other Americans.
    Last edited by oladub; August-12-19 at 08:21 AM.

  4. #104

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by archfan View Post
    Two points:
    1. Yes, ironic and pointed, because a majority in this country should mean the will of the people.
    This is just wrong. Our constitution is designed to prevent simple majorities from making decisions. Its a simple idea. We elect and appoint people to power. They make decisions for us, to reflect our collective will. Protection of minority rights by specifically limiting popular votes is a feature, not a bug.

    Quote Originally Posted by archfan View Post
    2. Really, do you meet a lot of people who say yes, send the border patrol home and let everyone in? Because I haven't. Someone can want the US to have a controlled border while at the same time wanting to treat people humanely and to come up with solutions rather than using immigration as a way to stir up voters.
    Of course someone can desire controlled border and better execution of border security. However I don't think my ear deceived me that several of the top 20 candidates said clearly that they want to decriminalize border crossing. Is that not an uncontrolled border? Or what am I missing. How would the border patrol control the border if they don't have any legal authority to do so?

  5. #105

    Default

    That is how they create open borders while avoiding the political minefield of openly calling for open borders.

    Eliminate ICE
    DeFund border Patrol in the budget.
    Change legal terms
    Encourage mass crossings in order to fire up the propaganda machine.
    Encourage mass crossings in order to overwhelm and create processing delays in order to buy time for administration change.
    Relax locally laws that we put in place in order to act as a deferent and provide sanctuary,in essence saying,if you can make it here we will protect you from the Feds and make it easy.

    One of the main points of Brexit was the ability of a sovereign nation to have control over thier borders,you do not hear Canadian politicians calling for open borders.
    Last edited by Richard; August-12-19 at 10:53 AM.

  6. #106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch View Post
    Of course someone can desire controlled border and better execution of border security. However I don't think my ear deceived me that several of the top 20 candidates said clearly that they want to decriminalize border crossing. Is that not an uncontrolled border? Or what am I missing. How would the border patrol control the border if they don't have any legal authority to do so?
    I don't mean to be rude but yes you are very wrong. If you actually listen to the stance about decriminalizing it's basis is that the fact that border crossing is a crime, it gives the US the power to treat people attempting to cross as criminals and thus instituting policies like we see now. Decriminalizing crossing the border does not mean everyone would be let in, because they still would not be a lawful resident of the country. Border patrol would still be in their full right to detain unlawful residents and potentially deport them, but not charging them with a crime, some would argue, would end family separations and some of the policies implemented. None of the candidates want open borders.

  7. #107

    Default

    ^ it still goes back on what grounds do they have to detain them if there are no laws to enforce?

    That is hard to grasp?

    The separation of families was actually created by a lawsuit against the federal government because they called it,housing minors with adults in a federal detention facility.

    It was considered inhuman,but it is also not a practice that happens in the legal system as it is.

    The separation happens because you can literally grab any child and say it is yours,if the child is to young to speak how are they supposed to determine if the parent is the real parent.

    So they are separated until it can be proven who the parent is.

    If the parent brings proof that the child is actually theirs then there is no reason for separation,and they are placed in a family pod.

    You can bet if somebody kidnaps a child and comes across the border and it became public there would be an outcry.

    Child trafficking is a big issue.

    The simple solution would be for the parents to actually bring proof that it is thier child in the first place,it is not some big secret that if you do not you will be separated until it can be determined.

    There are a lot of immigrant children in foster care in this country that were brought across the border by parents just handing them off to somebody that has no relations to them.

    If they have a verifiable relative already in the states then they are passed into thier custody.

    You did not hear about it before because it was working as designed before the lawsuit which actually created something that was not there.

    Can we as Americans purchase an airline ticket and be accompanied by a minor without providing proof? Or can we as Americans cross the border with minors and supply no proof of relationship.

    No country in the world allows border crossings with minors without providing proof of relationship.
    Last edited by Richard; August-12-19 at 11:27 AM.

  8. #108

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JonWylie View Post
    I don't mean to be rude but yes you are very wrong. If you actually listen to the stance about decriminalizing it's basis is that the fact that border crossing is a crime, it gives the US the power to treat people attempting to cross as criminals and thus instituting policies like we see now. Decriminalizing crossing the border does not mean everyone would be let in, because they still would not be a lawful resident of the country. Border patrol would still be in their full right to detain unlawful residents and potentially deport them, but not charging them with a crime, some would argue, would end family separations and some of the policies implemented. None of the candidates want open borders.
    It is never rude to make a polite correction. And I hear what you are saying here. But there is a contradiction between your words that I'd like to ask about -- without being rude!

    You say they would still be 'unlawful' residents. But that they would not be charged with a crime. There's an inconsistency in your logic that I'd appreciate some clarification.

    Perhaps you mean it would be legal to cross the border, but illegal be 'be' on the US side? Seems like pretty much the same thing.

    I do think you are helping me understand the logic of the 'make border crossing legal' campaign pledge.

    Yet, I see contradictions that perhaps are by design. We can eliminate family separations, but still 'detain' and 'deport' people? Who wouldn't like that.

  9. #109

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    ...
    The separation happens because you can literally grab any child and say it is yours,if the child is to young to speak how are they supposed to determine if the parent is the real parent.

    So they are separated until it can be proven who the parent is.
    ...

    You can bet if somebody kidnaps a child and comes across the border and it became public there would be an outcry.

    Child trafficking is a big issue.
    ...
    If they have a verifiable relative already in the states then they are passed into thier custody.
    Thanks, Richard. I learned something today.

    So I'll file 'family separation' as a rhetorical device, not a valid concern until someone can argue this.

  10. #110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch View Post
    It is never rude to make a polite correction. And I hear what you are saying here. But there is a contradiction between your words that I'd like to ask about -- without being rude!

    You say they would still be 'unlawful' residents. But that they would not be charged with a crime. There's an inconsistency in your logic that I'd appreciate some clarification.

    Perhaps you mean it would be legal to cross the border, but illegal be 'be' on the US side? Seems like pretty much the same thing.

    I do think you are helping me understand the logic of the 'make border crossing legal' campaign pledge.

    Yet, I see contradictions that perhaps are by design. We can eliminate family separations, but still 'detain' and 'deport' people? Who wouldn't like that.
    Yeah you're essentially right, and nobody knows exactly what the change would actually do. It would still be illegal to be in the country without proper documentation, and you would be subject to deportation. But it would not be a misdemeanor to cross the border, which means the potential jail time and some say aids in the family separation. Most immigrants are processed under civil deportation. I have no idea what the effect would be.

  11. #111

    Default

    ^ there are many tools to border control,one of those tools is called deterrents.

    If it was not illegal and there were no ramifications of crossing illegally,it becomes a constant catch and release revolving door of the same people,each time it cost time and resources to the taxpayer.

    For instance the recent number of 100,000,out of that at best 5% will actually receive asylum,the rest will go through up to a year with the denial process,then be loaded on a bus or plane and be returned to thier country of origin.

    Then they will either make the trek again or give up.

    It is not economically feasible to jail the other 95% for 5 years,so there is a law in order to provide teeth but it is not really enforced.

    So changing the law as it is,spends time,effort and resources by pushing a point that really does not exist.

    Somebody jumps border and kills a citizen,then yea they will most likely have the added charge of entering illegally.

    Which is what we were pretty much practicing in the past,you see stories of how some committed crimes have already been deported 5 and 6 times before.

    In comparison the United States is actually the more conservative one when it comes to incarceration of illegals for the actual crime of crossing,there are several countries that actually enforce the prison terms stated in thier immigration policies.
    Last edited by Richard; August-12-19 at 12:21 PM.

  12. #112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch View Post
    Thanks, Richard. I learned something today.

    So I'll file 'family separation' as a rhetorical device, not a valid concern until someone can argue this.
    The part of that which is completely overlooked is the ones placed into foster care are there until it is determined who they actually are.

    That is the concept in theory,the problem is that because of the lack of man power once in foster care they are no longer tracked,thousands of children are lost in the system and nobody knows where they are now.

    They will reappear years down the road in adulthood as “undocumented”,so what was really accomplished.

  13. #113

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    ...
    The separation happens because you can literally grab any child and say it is yours,if the child is to young to speak how are they supposed to determine if the parent is the real parent.

    So they are separated until it can be proven who the parent is.
    ...
    Oh, stop it. The government has said multiple times that the separation policy is being used as a deterrent. They know exactly who the kids belong to. If you're going to support the policy, own that you want to punish people for crossing the border illegally by separating parents from their kids, and jailing both.

  14. #114

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch View Post
    This is just wrong. Our constitution is designed to prevent simple majorities from making decisions. Its a simple idea. We elect and appoint people to power. They make decisions for us, to reflect our collective will. Protection of minority rights by specifically limiting popular votes is a feature, not a bug.
    Yes, you win the debate point. The US is a representational democracy. Nevertheless, if representatives go against the will of the majority of people (the Democrats+Chamber of Commerce Republicans mentioned above), then the will no longer be the representative after the next election.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch View Post
    Of course someone can desire controlled border and better execution of border security. However I don't think my ear deceived me that several of the top 20 candidates said clearly that they want to decriminalize border crossing. Is that not an uncontrolled border? Or what am I missing. How would the border patrol control the border if they don't have any legal authority to do so?
    I think your confusion is in decriminalize crossing vs. allow crossings. Illegal border crossing right now is both a civil offense and a misdemeanor. The civil offense means they can be deported. The misdemeanor means they can be punished.

    Decriminalizing means removing the misdemeanor, which means removing the legal basis for punishment. If you believe the punishments have been too (severe, expensive, inhumane, or whatever), then you support removing the misdemeanor, which means decriminalizing.

    I haven't heard anyone advocating removing the civil aspect, which means CBP would have the legal authority to capture and deport people illegally crossing the border.

  15. #115

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by archfan View Post
    ...snip...
    I haven't heard anyone advocating removing the civil aspect, which means CBP would have the legal authority to capture and deport people illegally crossing the border.
    I listened to the debates. What I heard was 'decriminalize'. That means 'no apprehensions' to me.

    If the only concern was 'family separations', its easy enough to say that. But that's not what was said.

    So I feel like this is a BS issue. Its just Orange Man bad. And the 'criminal vs. civil' argument is self-justification. The candidates want to 'resist' Trump. Obama was deporter-in-chief. That's all forgotten as long as we have an issue to beat up on President Trump. Family Separations on borders around the world will be forgotten the moment this isn't politically advantageous. (Look at Canada for our future. Trudeau tweets 'welcome to Canada'. And then after the financial and political costs of waves of 'illegal' immigrants become an issue, he quietly tightened up the rules, and reminded everyone that most refugee claims are denied in the end. We'll see this issue disappear after Trump's second term.)
    Last edited by Wesley Mouch; August-13-19 at 09:47 AM. Reason: Change approach

  16. #116

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by archfan View Post
    Oh, stop it. The government has said multiple times that the separation policy is being used as a deterrent. They know exactly who the kids belong to. If you're going to support the policy, own that you want to punish people for crossing the border illegally by separating parents from their kids, and jailing both.
    The govenment also says voting is unfair in the US because those with out means cannot afford an ID.

    Somrbody shows up at the border with no ID and no proof of who thier children are,how does the government know who exactly they are.

    Maybe you just do not understand who is actually crossing the border illegally and why.

    In the case of Latin America,you either have money or you do not,if you do not have some kind of marketable skill or means to make money,you are stuck.

    If you do not have the funds in advance to go to the hospital for childbirth then the midwife comes in,or somebody else.

    You are not seeing the upper classes jumping the border because they are comfortable where they are.

    If the left is so adamant on the punishment aspect,why did they push the separation lawsuit that created the separation in the first place?

    They ars are the ones that forced the separation and then stand up and soapbox evil separation.

    In my view thier reason of pushing the suit was the thought that those with families would automatically be released into the country because there was no place to House them separately.

    But by law that is not how it works and it is not up to border control to make up laws as they go along,it is thier job to enforce the laws created by others.

    One really has to be some kind of stupid to sue the government for separation without having a plan in place to deal with it then get up and claim aghast at others for the very thing that you created.

    There is a simple solution,change the lawsuit to create the ability to House children with thier parents in a federal detention facility,once they are determined legit.

    But noooooo that would involve a segment of admitting they screwed up and it is just easier to blame others and use the children for thier agenda.

  17. #117

    Default

    The deterrent is,do not grab a child and run to the border expecting to be released without proof that you have legal rights to that child.

    It was a California judge that forced the release into the public of 1700 mothers with children that started the grab a child and head to the border chaos.

    Have a child and receive a future hearing date and you are released,and never heard from again.
    Last edited by Richard; August-13-19 at 12:49 PM.

  18. #118

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch View Post
    I listened to the debates. What I heard was 'decriminalize'. That means 'no apprehensions' to me.

    If the only concern was 'family separations', its easy enough to say that. But that's not what was said.

    So I feel like this is a BS issue. Its just Orange Man bad.
    Then it sounds like you're engaging in 'Blue Candidates Bad' rather than listening to what they're saying.

    The original Castro proposal was to repeal Title 8, Section 1325 of the federal code, section (a) of which makes illegal border crossing a misdemeanor punishable by up to 6 months in jail. That is the law used to jail people who illegally crossing the border, and was the law used to separate families. The Castro proposal leaves in place the civil penalties, under which people who illegally cross the border are deported.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch View Post
    And the 'criminal vs. civil' argument is self-justification. The candidates want to 'resist' Trump. Obama was deporter-in-chief. That's all forgotten as long as we have an issue to beat up on President Trump. Family Separations on borders around the world will be forgotten the moment this isn't politically advantageous.
    I've read recently that some folks argue this way because they are cynically pushing immigration issues as a way to scare voters into supporting them. They therefore believe that the other side, equally cynical, doesn't really care about whether illegal immigrants are treated humanely - they're just arguing that way to take the opposite side. They don't leave open the possibility that they genuinely believe people should be treated humanely.

    Note that I don't ascribe that attitude to to you, Wes, because you usually seem to want to think rationally about issues, and probably have other reasons for arguing that way.

  19. #119

    Default

    The term "undocumented" is clearly the intentional use of a lie. Almost all illegal immigrants have documents. Some have documents that they brought from their home country which prove there are here illegally. The rest have completely fake or forged documents or stolen social security cards, all of which are illegal.

  20. #120

    Default

    That is thinking logical,you are not allowed to think like that without expecting the anti immigrant label and a inhuman person.

    Notice how the push is separation of families is a weapon against immigration.

    There is zero logic involved or solutions,any federal building built to house people that break the law or is used to detain somebody while waiting for a status hearing is considered a dentition facility.

    So lets make it so minors cannot be housed with adults in a detention facility,then call it inhuman when the law is being followed as forced.

    Lets even set aside the concept of when American citizens are arrested or detained thier children are not allowed to accompany them to the holding facility.

    Or the hundreds of thousands of military personnel that are separated from their children on deployment.

    So take a group of people claiming that they are fleeing the threat of violence and death and give them an opportunity of a lifetime at a chance at something they would never have in thier country of birth and then bitch about a couple months of separation.

    Enter the country illegally at any given second you are at risk of being caught and deported while being separated with your children at some point in the process.

    There is zero claim of being inhuman or argument about the separation of families at the border without repealing the ability to house said families.

    The bleeding hearts created this mess and instead of owning it they continue to look for reasons to blame everybody else for thier screw up.

    Either they are totally stupid or are worse then they claim others are,either they fix thier screw up or have some consolation that 95% out of 100 will be reunited with thier families on the plane ride back to thier country of origin.
    Last edited by Richard; August-14-19 at 08:31 AM.

  21. #121

    Default

    When I break into your house can I...
    Use your car?
    Swim in your pool?
    Drink your beer?
    Turn up your A/C?
    Sit in your Lazyboy?

    This shouldn't be a question but yet its still being asked!

  22. #122

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by One Shot View Post
    When I break into your house can I...
    Use your car?
    Swim in your pool?
    Drink your beer?
    Turn up your A/C?
    Sit in your Lazyboy?

    This shouldn't be a question but yet its still being asked!

    But of course! If you're:
    In need of going somewhere,
    Could use a little exercise,
    Thirsty after running errands and exercising,
    Hot after running errands and exercising,
    Tired after running errands and exercising, and inebriated.
    After all, you have all that stuff, the person breaking in doesn't, it's only fair.
    Last edited by Honky Tonk; August-14-19 at 11:39 AM.

  23. #123

    Default

    It is interesting how after the recent ice raid,the media is calling for the arrest of the buisness owners but not the city mayors and state governors for providing sanctuary for those in illegal status.

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Instagram
BEST ONLINE FORUM FOR
DETROIT-BASED DISCUSSION
DetroitYES Awarded BEST OF DETROIT 2015 - Detroit MetroTimes - Best Online Forum for Detroit-based Discussion 2015

ENJOY DETROITYES?


AND HAVE ADS REMOVED DETAILS »





Welcome to DetroitYES! Kindly Consider Turning Off Your Ad BlockingX
DetroitYES! is a free service that relies on revenue from ad display [regrettably] and donations. We notice that you are using an ad-blocking program that prevents us from earning revenue during your visit.
Ads are REMOVED for Members who donate to DetroitYES! [You must be logged in for ads to disappear]
DONATE HERE »
And have Ads removed.