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  1. #1

    Default Mounted police leading a black man on a rope defended


    “This is 2019 and not 1819”...

    https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/...t-horses-texas

    Good luck on trying to defending this!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-man-rope.html

    Last edited by Zacha341; August-07-19 at 11:33 AM.

  2. #2

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    IMO this is being completely overblown by the media. Just like most things lately, they're blowing it up for ratings and loving every click and every dollar.
    If the man was white these officers would have done exactly the same thing and no one would blinked. I guess striving for equal treatment is only supposed to go one way?


    "However, only mounted officers on horseback were available at the time, according to the department, meaning that police would need to wait for a cruiser to arrive before they could transport the man. Rather than wait, the officers, identified in a subsequent police statement as P. Brosch and A. Smith, decided to move Neely to a nearby mounted officer staging area."


    Mounted officers actually train on how to lead people like this as it is the safest way to transport someone in a crowd control situation, or in this case when a vehicle isn't available.



  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnny5 View Post
    IMO this is being completely overblown by the media. Just like most things lately, they're blowing it up for ratings and loving every click and every dollar.
    If the man was white these officers would have done exactly the same thing and no one would blinked. I guess striving for equal treatment is only supposed to go one way?


    "However, only mounted officers on horseback were available at the time, according to the department, meaning that police would need to wait for a cruiser to arrive before they could transport the man. Rather than wait, the officers, identified in a subsequent police statement as P. Brosch and A. Smith, decided to move Neely to a nearby mounted officer staging area."


    Mounted officers actually train on how to lead people like this as it is the safest way to transport someone in a crowd control situation, or in this case when a vehicle isn't available.


    I saw and read the article yesterday. More media propagated pseudo racism.
    Last edited by Honky Tonk; August-07-19 at 01:36 PM.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnny5 View Post
    IMO this is being completely overblown by the media. Just like most things lately, they're blowing it up for ratings and loving every click and every dollar.
    If the man was white these officers would have done exactly the same thing and no one would blinked. I guess striving for equal treatment is only supposed to go one way?


    "However, only mounted officers on horseback were available at the time, according to the department, meaning that police would need to wait for a cruiser to arrive before they could transport the man. Rather than wait, the officers, identified in a subsequent police statement as P. Brosch and A. Smith, decided to move Neely to a nearby mounted officer staging area."


    Mounted officers actually train on how to lead people like this as it is the safest way to transport someone in a crowd control situation, or in this case when a vehicle isn't available.


    Galveston Police chief Vernon Hale spoke at a Tuesday night town hall and stressed that the two officers seen detaining 43-year-old mentally-ill homeless man Donald Neely for trespassing were not acting maliciously.

    Hmmm, no.....this is hard to defend.

    Of course the media write click-bait headlines, but that doesn't make the underlying issue here not an issue.

    If nothing else, at the bare minimum, the officers should have understood how this would appear to anyone else, and that they may be recorded.

    If they didn't think it would look bad and cause trouble, they're guilty of being Obtuse in the 1st degree.

    Beyond looks, I can't see the underlying substance of the arrest beyond simple trespass.

    That would rarely get you arrested in Canada. Break and Enter yes, robbery yes, home invasion yes etc.

    In the case of simple trespass the normal procedure here is to simply ask someone to leave, and if they do, the incident is over. No arrest required. (someone's home would be different; but I'm assuming a commercial space or the like here.). The most I'd expect to see is a caution (so the police have a formal record of the interaction).

    I'm dubious about the arrest; but then from there to carry out the arrest of any man, or woman, irrespective of skin colour in that manner for any reason other than an emergency/exigent circumstances is extremely dubious.

    Do you honestly think they would arrest a middle-class white person in the same manner? I rather doubt it.

    They would expect a lawsuit if they did. But a mentally ill, homeless, black person.......

    Hmm.

    I'm not going to accuse officers I've never met, and whose records I'm not familiar with of conscious racism.

    I will suggest, that at the minimum, they are guilty of being obtuse to public perception and optics. That further, whether they know it or not, they likely would not have acted in a similar manner w/someone who was white and/or better off.

    That the latter is really not acceptable in the day and age, is a given to me.

  5. #5

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    Canadian Visitor, What's going on with the high crime statistics among minority populations in northern Canada? Nearly one quarter of homicide victims in Canada are aboriginal people. The rate of aboriginal people accused of homicide was 8.55 per 100,000 people, more than 10 times higher than the rate for Canada's non-aboriginal population.

  6. #6

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    ^ I touched on that before,1st world genocide.

    They complained about having less rights then the recent immigrants,so they are just being eliminated.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor View Post
    Galveston Police chief Vernon Hale spoke at a Tuesday night town hall and stressed that the two officers seen detaining 43-year-old mentally-ill homeless man Donald Neely for trespassing were not acting maliciously.

    Hmmm, no.....this is hard to defend.

    Of course the media write click-bait headlines, but that doesn't make the underlying issue here not an issue.

    If nothing else, at the bare minimum, the officers should have understood how this would appear to anyone else, and that they may be recorded.

    If they didn't think it would look bad and cause trouble, they're guilty of being Obtuse in the 1st degree.

    Beyond looks, I can't see the underlying substance of the arrest beyond simple trespass.

    That would rarely get you arrested in Canada. Break and Enter yes, robbery yes, home invasion yes etc.

    In the case of simple trespass the normal procedure here is to simply ask someone to leave, and if they do, the incident is over. No arrest required. (someone's home would be different; but I'm assuming a commercial space or the like here.). The most I'd expect to see is a caution (so the police have a formal record of the interaction).

    I'm dubious about the arrest; but then from there to carry out the arrest of any man, or woman, irrespective of skin colour in that manner for any reason other than an emergency/exigent circumstances is extremely dubious.

    Do you honestly think they would arrest a middle-class white person in the same manner? I rather doubt it.

    They would expect a lawsuit if they did. But a mentally ill, homeless, black person.......

    Hmm.

    I'm not going to accuse officers I've never met, and whose records I'm not familiar with of conscious racism.

    I will suggest, that at the minimum, they are guilty of being obtuse to public perception and optics. That further, whether they know it or not, they likely would not have acted in a similar manner w/someone who was white and/or better off.

    That the latter is really not acceptable in the day and age, is a given to me.

    Maybe different up up there but here if you call the police for somebody trespassing,if they do not give the police a hard time they get a warning and a trespass Notice is put in the system.

    Next time they get arrested because they have already been warned.

    Notice nobody still does not say anything about why a mentally unstable person was not getting help?

    Bad cop pulling a black guy in a rope,vote for me.

    Read your post,you are a racist because you saw a white cop and a black suspect and wrote that what happened was not acceptable.

    You did not see standard procedure,stop being racist.
    Last edited by Richard; August-07-19 at 02:21 PM.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by oladub View Post
    Canadian Visitor, What's going on with the high crime statistics among minority populations in northern Canada? Nearly one quarter of homicide victims in Canada are aboriginal people. The rate of aboriginal people accused of homicide was 8.55 per 100,000 people, more than 10 times higher than the rate for Canada's non-aboriginal population.
    With great respect. I'm sure how this relates to this thread at all.

    But I'll answer it anyways. In respect of the far north, the article answers that question.

    Small population sizes contributed to the high rates reported per 100,000 population — according to Statistics Canada, there were three homicides each in Yukon and Northwest Territories in 2014, and four in Nunavut, for a total of 10 across the territories.

    The population is very sparse up in the territories, only 2 cities larger than 10,000.

    ****

    Beyond that, the big difference in rates on a pan-Canadian basis are a reflection of reserve life to a very high degree.

    Many (not all) reserves have very high unemployment, high levels of alcohol and drug abuse, and add to that, gun ownership is pervasive, both for hunting, and because rural/remote areas may have Grizzlies or Polar Bears among other animals you would prefer not to encounter unarmed.

    The conditions on those reserves that suffering are a real social ill; with complex causes. But unemployment is key, I think. Its very hard to resolve in many remote areas, where there is no road access, communities are fly-in, fly-out.

    That really limits economic opportunity. These areas will not see factories, nor large offices, and often have populations too small to support large retail, or a hospital etc etc.

    The solutions are challenging both for those communities and government. More can and should be done. Radical change is likely need though and that will be hard on lots of people, and likely expensive too.

    But that's a whole other thread.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor View Post



    If nothing else, at the bare minimum, the officers should have understood how this would appear to anyone else, and that they may be recorded.
    ^^And this is part of the problem. Police officers need to be able to do their jobs safely, not take additional risks because of how "something looks". These officers did nothing wrong, and there's nothing to show that the treatment of this suspect had anything to do with his race. Their chief bowing to the political pressure and apologizing just makes things worse in the future and this story making
    national news is the perfect example of that.

    What exactly were they supposed to do with him if a squad car was not available? Walking him would have left the horse without a rider, and put the officer and possibly the suspect in harms way.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnny5 View Post
    ^^And this is part of the problem. Police officers need to be able to do their jobs safely, not take additional risks because of how "something looks". These officers did nothing wrong, and there's nothing to show that the treatment of this suspect had anything to do with his race. Their chief bowing to the political pressure and apologizing just makes things worse in the future and this story making
    national news is the perfect example of that.

    What exactly were they supposed to do with him if a squad car was not available? Walking him would have left the horse without a rider, and put the officer and possibly the suspect in harms way.
    Their own Chief did suggest they ought to have waited for a squad car, that there wasn't a compelling need to transport him that way.

    We have mounted police in Toronto, I've never heard of a prisoner transport done in this manner. Not saying it hasn't happened, but I'd be surprised if its happened in the last 3 decades.

  11. #11

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    Canadian Visitor, I don't think that the linked quote referencing Canadian aboriginal populations having 8.5x the homicide rate of all Canadians was specific to Canada's northern territories although I realize many Eskimos live there.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by oladub View Post
    Canadian Visitor, I don't think that the linked quote referencing Canadian aboriginal populations having 8.5x the homicide rate of all Canadians was specific to Canada's northern territories although I realize many Eskimos live there.
    I did address the non-north issue is the 2nd half of my post.

  13. #13

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    Canadian Visitor, "The officers should have understood how this would appear to anyone else, and that they may be recored" sort of applies to this situation you have in Canada too. One could look at the recorded crime numbers in the aboriginal dominated north of Canada compared with the remainder of Canada and wonder why such disparity exists. The U.S. has its ghettos so Americans can't claim to be doing better but who would have guessed that Canada's government would similarly tolerate disparity.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by oladub View Post
    Canadian Visitor, "The officers should have understood how this would appear to anyone else, and that they may be recored" sort of applies to this situation you have in Canada too. One could look at the recorded crime numbers in the aboriginal dominated north of Canada compared with the remainder of Canada and wonder why such disparity exists. The U.S. has its ghettos so Americans can't claim to be doing better but who would have guessed that Canada's government would similarly tolerate disparity.
    I don't think I would call it 'tolerated'.

    Judges have been given sentencing guidelines and alternatives with an eye to trying hard to lower the incarceration rate while respecting victims and the principle of equality before the law.

    After that, the real issue is dealing w/poverty and addiction.

    The latter, to a great degree is a function of the former.

    We know this because reserves that are further south, more integrated w/transportation and economics from off-reserve, not only have higher employment and lower poverty, but also less addiction and crime.

    The principle challenge is reserves where this isn't possible (lack of road access); or where for whatever reason, local leadership hasn't driven a solid economic agenda.

    In either case, fixing the problem is challenging, at best, and politically explosive at worst.

    Imagine politicians telling a minority, first-nations band they need to relocate away from the land they've been on for a few generations......

    You see where this only works if the local band initiates the idea.

    Road access is sometimes a practical build, but in some cases, remote bands and thousands of miles from the nearest road, building over peat bog is rather challenging and expensive.

    That doesn't mean nothing is being done........but it is too little, and too slowly.

  15. #15

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    Would not a squad car never have been available or just delayed?

    This is the worst optics towards the perception of police misconduct, even if not judged beyond 'perception'.

    Timing is pretty great too! I'm guessing a new process will have to go forth for mounted police when a single suspect is being apprehended per the crime accused?

    Has anyone noted that one of the officers was a woman?

    I heard that was being downplayed and her image cropped out (why?) but I've been away and not able to dig deeply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnny5 View Post
    What exactly were they supposed to do with him if a squad car was not available? Walking him would have left the horse without a rider, and put the officer and possibly the suspect in harms way.
    Last edited by Zacha341; August-08-19 at 12:34 AM.

  16. #16

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    There is a wealth of information in the link in the first post.

    I see an officer on a horse maintaining control of a suspect,that is described in the link as a father of 8 with mental issues.

    It also reads that the officers had warned the suspect multiple times in the past about the trespassing aspect and this time he was arrested for it.

    It also reads that the suspect reportedly said he had no ill will towards the officer and it was not an unpleasant experience.

    It also reads that witnesses saw him with a mask on that was placed there by the officer,but yet the officer reported that when they arrived he was already wearing the mask,a welding mask,and it kept falling down and as you can see in the picture the officer is carrying it as requested by the suspect.

    The rope is tied to the handcuffs,the officer has control over the rope,if the horse bolted or the suspect tried to bolt under the horse the officer is still in control.

    The suspect has 8 children and other family members that stressed distress in the link,where were they before the incident.

    Why are people distressed and upset?

    Because they see a white officer and a black suspect,see, it is never about equality or bridging the race gap and this is a perfect example why.

    It will always be a black and white thing,so why continue with the charades?

    You want the security of the visual of police patrols,horses are an effective tool,there is no point in continuing mounted patrols and the safety and security of a given city should in the future be limited to the automobile budget,people love thier chaos and always having somebody else to blame no matter which way things go.

    We do not know how far the walk was to the station,a squad car costs x amount per hour to operate plus the officer driving it.

    You have two officers mounted that costs X amount,three officers plus two horses tied up for one suspect,if a car was not advailable or diverted what would be the point and if the car was diverted and somebody elsewhere needed emergency services they would have been out of luck.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnny5 View Post
    What exactly were they supposed to do with him if a squad car was not available? Walking him would have left the horse without a rider, and put the officer and possibly the suspect in harms way.
    You get your lazy fat donut eatin' ass off the horse and walk the detainee like a human being. Let your partner have the reins of your horse.

  18. #18

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    ^^^ Yes, why was that option not considered?

  19. #19

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    ^^ Because it leaves a 1000lb horse not under full control, and a mentally ill suspect in direct contact with the officer. If something happens the partner is handling two horses and would likely have difficulty offering assistance. Again, these mounted officers had been trained to do this because it's safest for everyone involved.
    Last edited by Johnnny5; August-08-19 at 09:09 PM.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnny5 View Post
    ^^ it leaves a 1000lb horse not under full control, and a mentally ill suspect in direct contact with the officer...
    That's a stretch too far. The suspect was handcuffed. The officer was not.

    "Potentially" dangerous police horses? HA! Everyone knows they're trained to be safe around people.

    You're reaching too far. Why?

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimaz View Post

    You're reaching too far. Why?
    I'd ask the same of those implying that this arrest was racist.

    Ask yourself, would we even be having this discussion if this suspect had been white? Of course not. Would the police chief have apologized for "embarrassing" the man? Would the tabloid media or anyone else even care? How is it any less embarrassing to be walked down a public street wearing handcuffs than it is to be led along side of a horse?
    Last edited by Johnnny5; August-08-19 at 09:08 PM.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnny5 View Post
    I'd ask the same of those implying that this arrest was racist.

    Ask yourself, would we even be having this discussion if this suspect had been white? Of course not...
    Of course YES we would! Claiming nonracists are more racist than you does not make it so.

    You've been led into a universe engineered to be closed. You need to escape before you're sucked in deeper.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimaz View Post
    Of course YES we would! Claiming nonracists are more racist than you does not make it so.

    You've been led into a universe engineered to be closed. You need to escape before you're sucked in deeper.

    Ok you've had enough green kool-aid, you're cut off.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimaz View Post
    That's a stretch too far. The suspect was handcuffed. The officer was not.

    "Potentially" dangerous police horses? HA! Everyone knows they're trained to be safe around people.

    You're reaching too far. Why?
    Not around horses much,hugh

    Trained or not a horse fly lands on his butt and bites,the horse is not computer programmed to stay still.

    Riding a horse is not much different then riding a motorcycle,you have to be in constant state of awareness because anything can go wrong and any second for any reason,hence the officers remaining seated in control.

    Unless you are a horse whisper and in communication with the horse so he could warn you of any sudden movements,Mr Ed was a tv show and horses cannot really talk.
    Last edited by Richard; August-08-19 at 11:42 PM.

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimaz View Post
    Of course YES we would! Claiming nonracists are more racist than you does not make it so. You've been led into a universe engineered to be closed. You need to escape before you're sucked in deeper.
    Let's use Obama as an example. I don't think he considered himself a racist. i don't even think he intended to cause race problems. However, during Obama's administration black wealth, incomes, and home ownership rates declined more than those of whites". Racial harmony also declined during the Obama years as measured in surveys. His administration overthrew Khaddafi, and attempted to overthrow Assad contributing to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Arabs* and millions of refugees. My guess is that Obama didn't intend for all these bad things to happen so much as he wasn't up to the job. My point is that Obama who claimed not to be racist caused some race problems. Trump, who says all sorts of outrageous things; some considered racist, on the other hand, has brought record employment to the Hispanic and black communities. Should we vote for language or results?

    *Arabs might be considered 'brown people' by identity politics promotors. Identity politics begets identity politics reactions. I wonder if thats what is intended by promoters of identity politics. If it is, it might segue into your last sentence.

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