Two RECENT US mass shootings. Where do we go from here?

[Canadian Visitor]

^ it’s okay I will not hold it against you,or the Canadian peanut gallery.

It is logic,somebody is shooting at you,would you have a better survival rate if ....

A: you are armed and can return fire

B: you are forced to run faster then the bullets.

You cannot expect or depend on the police to be there in less then 30 seconds,it is no different then if somebody breaks into your house,call the police and hope they will be there when?

Why do you think that they are picking soft target locations.

Because they know the intended victims will not be able or will not fight back.

Now they are saying it has nothing to do with being mentally unstable,like it is sane to go shoot a bunch of people that are unable to defend themselves.

You left out C) The gunman doesn't exist, cause we didn't let him get a gun or ammo in the 1st place.

Most effective strategy ever.

Proven to work throughout the world.

Toronto, a city of 3,000,000 has 32 homicides so far this year, that's a pace of 58 for the year.

Remind me what the homicide rate is down there?

Right, even El Paso, considered once of the safest cities in the US has a homicide rate in a normal year almost 3 per 100,000 residents.

By contrast, Toronto has a rate of 1.9 homicides per 100,000 residents.

That compares with 5.3 in the U.S. overall.

One strategy works, the other does not.

[Richard]

You left out C) The gunman doesn't exist, cause we didn't let him get a gun or ammo in the 1st place.

Most effective strategy ever.

Proven to work throughout the world.

Toronto, a city of 3,000,000 has 32 homicides so far this year, that's a pace of 58 for the year.

Remind me what the homicide rate is down there?

Right, even El Paso, considered once of the safest cities in the US has a homicide rate in a normal year almost 3 per 100,000 residents.

By contrast, Toronto has a rate of 1.9 homicides per 100,000 residents.

That compares with 5.3 in the U.S. overall.

One strategy works, the other does not.

Are you going to compare apples to apples?

Homicides increased in recent years alongside a significant jump in shootings, said Lee. So far in 2018, there have been 364 shooting incidents and 497 victims, according to police data. That's more than double 166 shootings and 207 victims in 2014.

Toronto Has Highest Homicide Rate Among Major Canadian Cities For 2018


https://m.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/11/...wux67s2m7LJK7H

I already posted El Paso is a smaller community that is home to two military bases
and the base for the immigration task force.

So given that thier base is comprised of the military and law enforcement it would stand to reason that they are
somewhat safer.

The level of rape is higher then the National standard.

If they did not have the military and immigration enforcement presence
then thier levels of violence would mirror other border cities that have violent cites across the border from them.

So thier current level of safety is irrelevant when using it as a model.

The bombing in Manchester concert also shows,guns or not somebody intent on doing harm will find a w
a way to inflict it.

Even a simple van can be used,as you are well aware of.

England has a knife ban but the amount of stabbings in London is at critical levels.

You going to advocate the banning of vans now? Saying the gunman would not exist if you remove weapons would be the same as the van killer would not have existed if you had banned vans.

[canuck]

Grasping at greasy straws big time, Richard. Poor judgement on all counts

[Richard]

^ at least I do not wallow in hypocrisy,notice when 15 teenagers were dieing everyday from cell phone distraction and driving... nobody called for a ban on cellphones.

Maybe it is because they only want to regulate things that they do not like?

How is Flint doing these days,they did not have a problem with kids drinking lead tainted water,but loud and clear when a child is drinking safe water out of a drinking fountain at the border,saying they were forced to drink out of the toilet.

[Richard]

An expert being interviewed on CBSN podcast says this.

If a baker is asked to bake a cake in the shape of a shotgun,that should be viewed as a red flag.

So in her mind the very site of a firearm automatically ties it to nefarious use.

There are some dangerous people out there that do not need to use a weapon,only a platform.

[Zacha341]

Sadly we have it happening again [[people plotting, one succeeding):

Odessa mass shooting death toll rises

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ifcation-small

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/wes...and/index.html

REVEALED: Queens teen's 'ISIS plot to drop bombs and stab

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ifcation-small

https://nypost.com/2019/08/30/teen-w...r-prosecutors/

[Richard]

There was another one at a ball game that does not seem to be getting much press,it was reported as gang violence overspilling.

Lots of town hall meetings going on in St Louis where 12 children have also been killed in a short amount of time.

But the focus remains on guns and not the core issues.

It is not normal to see a gun and decide to pick it up and wreak havoc,it was not in the past to the extent it is happening now,why is it deemed now that the only solution is by removing the tool used is the solution?

[canuck]

An expert being interviewed on CBSN podcast says this.

If a baker is asked to bake a cake in the shape of a shotgun,that should be viewed as a red flag.

So in her mind the very site of a firearm automatically ties it to nefarious use.

There are some dangerous people out there that do not need to use a weapon,only a platform.

Chuckles à la times ten.

[Richard]

^ I see the legalization of weed in Canada is having its desired effect.

[canuck]

^ I see the legalization of weed in Canada is having its desired effect.

Yes, and when I come down, your post won't seem so funny.

[canuck]

I suggest you lock up all the loonies, and would be loonies, and anyone suspicious and please leave the goddamn guns alone for chrissakes. leave them guns alone!!!

[Richard]

^ now you are sounding like a Pink Floyd song.

You are aware of the thing called the internet and anybody can search “gun violence in Canada”

With all of your restrictions how is that working out up there?

Have you guys banned vans yet?

[ABetterDetroit]

Tax guns and ammunition finally and keep the gun people from fleecing the crap out of the average tax payer in this country.

This mess is getting insanely expensive.

The militarization of law enforcement, lengthy complicated investigations requiring more and more officers at all levels of government complete with forensic scientists on a larger and larger scale. Lifelong health and mental bills for survivors and families. The cost of fucking up those families forever in poverty-plagued communities across the country where the problem is endemic. Prison, probation and attempts at ending recidivism. This cost list is endless and rising dramatically. Professional personnel cost money, lots of it.

Mental health and law enforcement for violent crimes are badly underfunded where it is needed most so let’s finally tap a revenue stream [[gun economy) that makes sense.

Should be easy as hell. 4 out of of 5 gun people are firmly against giving anyone a “free ride” and non gun people will jump on this in a heartbeat.

[Shelby_]

^ now you are sounding like a Pink Floyd song.

You are aware of the thing called the internet and anybody can search “gun violence in Canada”

With all of your restrictions how is that working out up there?

Have you guys banned vans yet?

Detroit 2018 murders 39/100,000

Toronto 2018 murders 3.3/100,000

[canuck]

Detroit 2018 murders 39/100,000

Toronto 2018 murders 3.3/100,000

Let him wiggle out of this one with something about driving while phoning again...

[Richard]

Detroit 2018 murders 39/100,000

Toronto 2018 murders 3.3/100,000

The question would be,is there a decrease in gun crimes in Toronto based on increase gun regulations.

Detroit is irrelevant in that question.

• In 2017 there was a total of 395 shootings;
• In 2016 there was a total of 407 shootings;
• In 2015 there was a total of 288 shootings;
• In 2014 there was a total of 177 shootings.

It would appear that the numbers doubled in the space of 4 years.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4352467/d...-rate-toronto/


Sorry Canuky no need to wiggle out of anything,once again useing a simple search produces numbers that are there in black and white,okay there is also a purple link.

Based on that would you say

Gun crimes in Toronto have increased or decreased based on tighter gun restrictions?

Gun violence in downtown Toronto up 167% so far in 2018

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2018/05/...onto-increase/


With five months still left in 2019, Toronto has already surpassed the number of shooting incidents we saw during the entirety of 2018 — itself a record-breaking year for gun violence with 238 shootings reported.

https://www.blogto.com/city/2019/08/...d-august-2019/

It would appear that the amount of crimes useing a gun is increasing in both the United States and Canada.

The difference is the more restrictive regulations put in place in Canada are not haveing the desired effect,maybe it boils down the level of violence is increasing.

Pull the stats from London also they are having a record level,or epidemic as they refer it to,of knife stabbings and they cannot even legaly own a gun without massive restrictions.

So the level of violence is increasing worldwide,the weapon of choice is just the prop,so why is the level of violence increasing?

Not enough safe spaces?

[canuck]

Sorry Richardy,

Montreal is at 11 murders thus far this year, for a population of 2 million, island wide. The murder and violence count is dwindling every passing decade. In the late seventies, there were years above a hundred, and the early eighties were pretty bad, but it just keeps getting better. Probably the lowest per capita of all big North American cities.

[Johnnny5]

Tax guns and ammunition finally and keep the gun people from fleecing the crap out of the average tax payer in this country.

Almost all of these nuts realize that afterwards they are either dead, or going to prison for the rest of their life. The idea that having to pay more for ammunition would deter them is insane in itself.

[oladub]

Detroit 2018 murders 39/100,000

Toronto 2018 murders 3.3/100,000

Why is homicide so high in big Democratic cities?

Chicago 2018 murder rate 23.8/100,000
excellent breakdown https://heyjackass.com

Baltimore 2018 murder rate 55.7/100,000

Washington D.C. 2018 murder rate 18.5/100,000

Canada's 2018 murder rate is 1.8/100,000

U.S. 2018 murder rate is 5.3/100,000 murder rate

State with highest murder rate -
Louisiana 12.4/100,000

State with lowest homicide rate-
New Hampshire 2017 murder rate 1.0/100,000

List of top 30 homicide cities in U.S.
E. St. Louis, MO 2018 homicide rate 101.5/100.000

Based on statistics, maybe we should adopt New Hampshire's policies instead of looking to Washington, D.C. for a solution.

However there is good news. The annul rate of death from firearms in the U.S. has halved from 1993.

In the long term, violent crime in the United States has been in decline since colonial times. The homicide rate has been estimated to be over 30 per 100,000 people in 1700, dropping to under 20 by 1800, and to under 10 by 1900. The United States has the highest rate of civilian gun ownership per capita. According to the CDC, between 1999 and 2014 there have been 185,718 homicides from use of a firearm and 291,571 suicides using a firearm. Despite a significant increase in the sales of firearms since 1994, the US has seen a drop in the annual rate of homicides using a firearm from 7.0 per 100,000 population in 1993 to 3.6 per 100,000.

[Canadian Visitor]

Why is homicide so high in big Democratic cities?

Chicago 2018 murder rate 23.8/100,000
excellent breakdown https://heyjackass.com

Baltimore 2018 murder rate 55.7/100,000

Washington D.C. 2018 murder rate 18.5/100,000

Canada's 2018 murder rate is 1.8/100,000

U.S. 2018 murder rate is 5.3/100,000 murder rate

State with highest murder rate -
Louisiana 12.4/100,000

State with lowest homicide rate-
New Hampshire 2017 murder rate 1.0/100,000

List of top 30 homicide cities in U.S.
E. St. Louis, MO 2018 homicide rate 101.5/100.000
.

This is unusually silly for you.

Homicide associated with guns and gangs is always going to be more concentrated in urban areas, which in the US context are almost all more Democratic.

Comparing NYC to NewHampshire is silly.

You at least need to find a large 2M+ urban centre that tends to vote Republican if you wanted to draw that rather specious comparison.

After all, right in your own list, you show the Canada-wide homicide rate at roughly 1/3 of the U.S. rate.

Canada's most conservative regions are to the political left of anything you'd fine in LA or NYC.

Our Big Cities across the board have homicide rates, this year of 2.2 or less.

Toronto [[2.2), Montreal around 0.9, Vancouver 1.0.

All are subject to Canada's gun laws; and universal healthcare.

[Richard]

Sorry Richardy,

Montreal is at 11 murders thus far this year, for a population of 2 million, island wide. The murder and violence count is dwindling every passing decade. In the late seventies, there were years above a hundred, and the early eighties were pretty bad, but it just keeps getting better. Probably the lowest per capita of all big North American cities.

Your own country disagrees with you

Between 2009 and 2013, there were over 56,000 gun homicides in the United States compared to 977 in Canada. That’s a huge margin, but Canada doesn’t measure up as well to its European peers. Compared to the rest of the world, Canada has the fourth-highest gun homicide rate, behind France, Germany and Italy. That’s not as good.
Even more concerning is the recent spike in gun violence in cities across Canada. The Zero Gun Violence Movement studied specific cities including Surrey, Regina, Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto, Ottawa and Halifax and found some shocking numbers. In Regina for example, there was a 93 per cent increase in violent offences involving guns on average over the past five years. Between 2015 and 2016, there was a 163 per cent increase in victims of firearm offences. That’s a huge increase over just one year.

https://www.theloop.ca/whats-state-gun-violence-canada/

[Zacha341]

Nice spitting contest: but in regards to priority, as per living 'here', crime is clearly increasing in the US for many reasons!

Not the least the increased lawlessness, callousness and psychosis as human life is devalued and self-control eroded.

If we don't acknowledge this, then where are we really going here?

[canuck]

Your own country disagrees with you

Between 2009 and 2013, there were over 56,000 gun homicides in the United States compared to 977 in Canada. That’s a huge margin, but Canada doesn’t measure up as well to its European peers. Compared to the rest of the world, Canada has the fourth-highest gun homicide rate, behind France, Germany and Italy. That’s not as good.
Even more concerning is the recent spike in gun violence in cities across Canada. The Zero Gun Violence Movement studied specific cities including Surrey, Regina, Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto, Ottawa and Halifax and found some shocking numbers. In Regina for example, there was a 93 per cent increase in violent offences involving guns on average over the past five years. Between 2015 and 2016, there was a 163 per cent increase in victims of firearm offences. That’s a huge increase over just one year.

https://www.theloop.ca/whats-state-gun-violence-canada/

Nice try, Quebec is the only province that insisted on keeping the gun registry alive... The results speak for themselves.

[Canadian Visitor]

Your own country disagrees with you

Between 2009 and 2013, there were over 56,000 gun homicides in the United States compared to 977 in Canada. That’s a huge margin, but Canada doesn’t measure up as well to its European peers. Compared to the rest of the world, Canada has the fourth-highest gun homicide rate, behind France, Germany and Italy. That’s not as good.
Even more concerning is the recent spike in gun violence in cities across Canada. The Zero Gun Violence Movement studied specific cities including Surrey, Regina, Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto, Ottawa and Halifax and found some shocking numbers. In Regina for example, there was a 93 per cent increase in violent offences involving guns on average over the past five years. Between 2015 and 2016, there was a 163 per cent increase in victims of firearm offences. That’s a huge increase over just one year.

https://www.theloop.ca/whats-state-gun-violence-canada/

First off, 'his country' doesn't disagree with him.

Second, the report you cited doesn't disagree with him either.

As per usual you conflate a variety of different things and draw conclusions not supported by your own evidence.

Look at homicides as the definitive statistic, they don't go under reported, you can use the same number year after year.

Your offenses above will include any instance in which a gun was present in any other crime, whether loaded or not, fired or not or pointed or not.

Yes numbers of shootings are up some, though well below all time highs, and vastly lower than U.S. levels on rate basis.

Be that as it may.....

You're not wrong to note that Edmonton has a much higher homicide/violent crime rate that Montreal or Toronto or Vancouver. Curiously, also true of small cities in Saskatchewan and New Brunswick and Manitoba too; and northern Ontario.........

Have you noticed the connection yet Richard? Because those statistics actually overlap with the highest legal rates of gun ownership in Canada.

One reason you will soon see laws toughened here.

[Richard]

^ actually I am not putting my evidence in,simply posting links that are available for anybody to see.

I did not personally make those numbers up and it is kinda hard to argue with the fact that gun crime is increasing in Canada.

The question remains unanswered,is the level of crime increasing in Canada as a direct result of guns or is the level of violence in general increasing.

The gun aspect is a non argument because the numbers show an increased use in violence.Guns or not would it still be there?