DTE grid durability < bunch of extension cords

[detlump]

Based on the lack of progress in getting many people's power back on throughout the area I don't have a lot of faith in the strength of DTE's grid. It seems like a little rain and wind is enough to send chunks of the area back to the 1900s. Maybe DTE should divert money from advertising and sponsoring Pine Knob to making the local grid something that can take a few thunderstorms without falling completely apart.

It seems like it is taking forever, but one day a small solar panel and energy storage system will make the grid obsolete. I can only wonder what will happen when power companies start losing subscribers like cable TV companies.

[Scottathew]

70 mile per hour winds swept across a huge amount of DTE's service area. To me it is understandable that they're going to have downtime. Another wind storm went through this evening too.

People will complain if their power goes out, but people would also complain if DTE charge the amount of money to make their grid 70 mph wind proof.

[Trumpeteer]

OK so you put your solar panels up "and get off the grid" BUT what happens when you get a f--nn blizzard and your solar cant produce energy and you don't have any storage capability, which BTW is non existent? You'll expect DTE to provide you power right?? So what price will you pay to have that standby energy ready for you, i.e. lines, transformers, etc. ?

[erikd]

Based on the lack of progress in getting many people's power back on throughout the area I don't have a lot of faith in the strength of DTE's grid. It seems like a little rain and wind is enough to send chunks of the area back to the 1900s. Maybe DTE should divert money from advertising and sponsoring Pine Knob to making the local grid something that can take a few thunderstorms without falling completely apart.

It seems like it is taking forever, but one day a small solar panel and energy storage system will make the grid obsolete. I can only wonder what will happen when power companies start losing subscribers like cable TV companies.

These power outages are due to the above-ground power lines that are prone to damage in severe weather. Running the power lines underground would solve 99% of the power outages. It is more expensive to run power lines underground, but it solves the problem. I have lived downtown since 1997, on the DTE grid, and the only time that I have lost power was during the blackout of 2003.

[Honky Tonk]

And once again, Windsor, who initially sunk their money into running power cable under ground, had 0 outages. I guess it's more cost effective to keep paying massive amounts of overtime and advertisement wank, then it is to do it right.

[Scottathew]

And once again, Windsor, who initially sunk their money into running power cable under ground, had 0 outages. I guess it's more cost effective to keep paying massive amounts of overtime and advertisement wank, then it is to do it right.

I'm not opposed to investing in infrastructure, but the issue is that many of the same people that complain about power outages would also complain about a bill increase to fund infrastructure improvements.

My Rochester Hills neighborhood has underground power lines, but the lines that bring power to our neighborhood are still above ground. We've been less prone to power outages here, but we still get them.

I got lucky this time around, the storm with the winds dove south and didn't affect us.

[Jimaz]

WWJ: DTE reports 375,000 still without power this morning. I don't track these things closely but that seems unusually high. Earlier they were saying some may have to wait two days for power.

I watched the front roll through and noticed some low-level clouds moving at an unnaturally high rate of speed. It's interesting that there were no reports of tornadoes.

Update: Now they're saying almost 500,000 outages between the two utilities.

[Lowell]

Anybody's gas go out during the storm? Of course not, it's underground. I agree that electricity should be too. Plus we be be rid of unsightly and dangers overhead lines. The alternative? Pop the 5G for a gas-powered whole-house generator as I had to when I was running my business out of my house and could not afford to lose power.

Ideal would be a whole-house battery. I notice the Tesla Powerwall at $6.5K will get one through the day and 2 @ $13K will provide up to seven days. These are being combined with solar panelling to offer truly off-grid potential. I would be very interested when they achieve, as seems inevitable, a lower price/efficiency level equivalent of a gas generator. Also one would not have to listen to the roaring generator.

[Honky Tonk]

I'm not opposed to investing in infrastructure, but the issue is that many of the same people that complain about power outages would also complain about a bill increase to fund infrastructure improvements.

My Rochester Hills neighborhood has underground power lines, but the lines that bring power to our neighborhood are still above ground. We've been less prone to power outages here, but we still get them.

I got lucky this time around, the storm with the winds dove south and didn't affect us.

That's the Granholm mentality. "We'll have to raise your rates." No, take the money you're pissing away on paying time-and-a-half and double-time repairing the same problems over and over again throughout the years, and start using it to run lines underground. Be proactive. When she was in office, I-94, and who knows what else, got fresh asphalt every three years. When asked why not redo it correctly with concrete, the reply was " it would cost too much".

[Honky Tonk]

Anybody's gas go out during the storm? Of course not, it's underground. I agree that electricity should be too. Plus we be be rid of unsightly and dangers overhead lines. The alternative? Pop the 5G for a gas-powered whole-house generator as I had to when I was running my business out of my house and could not afford to lose power.

Ideal would be a whole-house battery. I notice the Tesla Powerwall at $6.5K will get one through the day and 2 @ $13K will provide up to seven days. These are being combined with solar panelling to offer truly off-grid potential. I would be very interested when they achieve, as seems inevitable, a lower price/efficiency level equivalent of a gas generator. Also one would not have to listen to the roaring generator.

Someone's thinking.

[Scottathew]

The alternative? Pop the 5G for a gas-powered whole-house generator as I had to when I was running my business out of my house and could not afford to lose power.

I've got a few friends that have had the whole-house generators installed. I just caution people that don't have a strong use-case for one. Think about how long the generator will last you, how many power outages you'll have during that time, and try to estimate how much each hour of electricity is going to cost you when you factor in the cost of the generator itself.

Online research tells me that the life expectancy for a whole-house generator is 12 years [[https://www.howtolookatahouse.com/Bl...generator.html). My power is out on average for about 12 hours a year. I'm seeing whole house generators seem to go for about $6000 installed.

12 hours x 12 years = 144 hours
$6000 / 144 hours = $42 an hour
$42 an hour + gas cost of about $2 an hour = $44 an hour to have electricity


For me, a frugal guy with no pressing need for power reliability, $44 an hour isn't worth it. Instead I'll just do a family game night if the power goes out. If it goes out during the winter I'll just relocate to a family or friend's house.

Of course different folks have different priorities and needs and perhaps live in an area where the power goes out more.

[Chicago48]

Based on the lack of progress in getting many people's power back on throughout the area I don't have a lot of faith in the strength of DTE's grid. It seems like a little rain and wind is enough to send chunks of the area back to the 1900s. Maybe DTE should divert money from advertising and sponsoring Pine Knob to making the local grid something that can take a few thunderstorms without falling completely apart.

It seems like it is taking forever, but one day a small solar panel and energy storage system will make the grid obsolete. I can only wonder what will happen when power companies start losing subscribers like cable TV companies.

Is there a map showing the outtages?

[Zacha341]

Here's the map:

https://emergency.dteenergy.com/map

[Maof]

you can input your area by address and/or zip code...
https://emergency.dteenergy.com/map

[Maof]

Here's the map:

https://emergency.dteenergy.com/map

oops beat me to it.

[Zacha341]

I keep it handy seeing as how shaky the electrical grid is.

[Meddle]

That's the Granholm mentality. "We'll have to raise your rates." No, take the money you're pissing away on paying time-and-a-half and double-time repairing the same problems over and over again throughout the years, and start using it to run lines underground. Be proactive.

Some years back the parent company of our rural electric co-op lost a couple of huge industrial manufacturing clients. Instead of cutting costs and executive pay packages to offset the loss, they raised rates on everyone else.

[Honky Tonk]

Some years back the parent company of our rural electric co-op lost a couple of huge industrial manufacturing clients. Instead of cutting costs and executive pay packages to offset the loss, they raised rates on everyone else.

You can't expect the top of the food chain to do without. Who else has the capability to run things effectively? In hard times, we all need to "pull together".

[Richard]

The longest we were without power was 14 days,others have gone longer,you will survive.

We had buried lines but the storms took out the substations so it did not matter.

Even with a small generator,unless it is a Honda you will burn a gallon an hour running a fridge and a few small appliances.If you can find a service station that has gas or power to replenish your supply.

It is better to prepare based on having nothing, then work up from there.

I use what they used back in the day when hurricanes came through,vintage hurricane lamps.Cook on the backyard grill,the water usually stays on so what more does one need.

The guys working in the lines also have family and are working long hours in dangerous conditions,hate the system but give them some respect and try to have a little patience,if one gets bored they can always find a lineman,or line person and throw them a bottle of water or a sandwich.

The linepeople are not tree people,when trees are involved they have to wait until the tree people do thier part before they can even touch the line,also there is the pole people and the transformer people,the sub station people,it’s a whole slew of process before a line can be hung back up.

The worst part is the replacement transformers,they are no longer made in this country because they contain PCBs,there is a supply back order of hundreds of thousands.

So they also have to scrape up the necessary parts and that in itself is a logistical nightmare.

As an individual you really need to be prepared to be self sufficient with a plan,it makes an inconvenience a bit more bearable.

[Gistok]

That's the Granholm mentality. <SNIP> When she was in office, I-94, and who knows what else, got fresh asphalt every three years. When asked why not redo it correctly with concrete, the reply was " it would cost too much".

We in SCS thank our lucky stars that they keep repaving with asphalt. When I moved into my house there in 1990, you could hear the freeway noise, which got worse at night [[wind direction, humidity, etc.). Now when they repave with cement they add grooves... and then you end up with this mess...

https://patch.com/michigan/farmingto...pefully-better

A repave of asphalt is OK by us....

[MikeM]

That's the Granholm mentality. "We'll have to raise your rates." No, take the money you're pissing away on paying time-and-a-half and double-time repairing the same problems over and over again throughout the years, and start using it to run lines underground.

Is there any financial data showing this cost equivalence?

[Honky Tonk]

We in SCS thank our lucky stars that they keep repaving with asphalt. When I moved into my house there in 1990, you could hear the freeway noise, which got worse at night [[wind direction, humidity, etc.). Now when they repave with cement they add grooves... and then you end up with this mess...

https://patch.com/michigan/farmingto...pefully-better

A repave of asphalt is OK by us....

Glad to hear that, Gistok. Maybe you can post that on Saint Clair Shores YES! and get the of "us" to vote in a milage increase so you you won't be such a PITA burden to the rest of the taxpayers. A cheaper alternative would be to buy a box of those construction earplugs or perhaps counting sheep. 🤓😣👽 🤡

[Meddle]

The perpetual under or over argument. For newly laid out subdivisions or developments, under makes more sense if geology permits. But it would be totally unworkable to try and retrofit an existing area. Think about the costs involved. Many, many millions of dollars and a dozen years or more in the process. All the digging through yards, tunneling under streets and walks, hoping they don't hit something that will need to be repaired.

Then what about the property owners? They're usually required to be responsible for any underground costs between the meter and the grid. Space needs to be made available for ground mounted transformers that are now on poles and the property owner is responsible for keeping that area around them clear of plant growth.

[Honky Tonk]

The perpetual under or over argument. For newly laid out subdivisions or developments, under makes more sense if geology permits. But it would be totally unworkable to try and retrofit an existing area. Think about the costs involved. Many, many millions of dollars and a dozen years or more in the process. All the digging through yards, tunneling under streets and walks, hoping they don't hit something that will need to be repaired.

Then what about the property owners? They're usually required to be responsible for any underground costs between the meter and the grid. Space needs to be made available for ground mounted transformers that are now on poles and the property owner is responsible for keeping that area around them clear of plant growth.

Then the alternative is to continue spending hundreds of thousands of dollars every time a mediocre storm passes through, [[Winter, Spring, Summer, and Fall) and dealing with power outages for days. Oh, and bitching about it on the internet. Providing you still have connectivity.

[GPCharles]

So they're planning to put X% of our cars on this power grid. That will work out great.

Even if X = 10% there is no way the current power grid can handle that load.