I-75 Mega-Project Update [[Oakland County)

[Scottathew]

Hello Folks!

I attended the I-75 Phase Three open house today. I was able to get a lot of interesting information. Here are the highlights:

• A tunnel boring machine will be used to make the underground rain storage pipe.
  
  • The TBM will be inserted in the northeast quadrant of the I-75\I-696 interchange and the tailings will be brought to that location.
  • The tunnel will go as far north as 12 Mile and as far south as Meyers [[8.5 Mile).
  • The tunnel will be for rain water only. It will be able to store an entire 100 year storm without discharging any of it. It can then wait to discharge the water until after things have calmed down.
  • This water won't need to get treated like the rainfall does today, because the current system is a combined system.
  • This tunnel will help reduce the chances of basement flooding for the 12 Towns Drain system.
  
  
• The need for pumping stations will be eliminated in many locations except for where the tunnel pumps out at the Red Run drain
• Madison Heights has asked that a Diverging Diamond Interchange [[DDI) be considered for the 12 Mile Road interchange [[An example of a DDI would be University Drive over I-75)
• Work starts later this year but doesn't really ramp up until 2020
• The project will be done in four segments and will wrap up in 2023, the four segments are as follows:
  
  • 2020: Northbound I-75 from 8-Mile to I-696
  • 2021: Southbound I-75 from I-696 to 8-Mile
  • 2022: Northbound I-75 from I-696 to 13 Mile Road
  • 2023: Southbound I-75 from 13 Mile Road to I-696
  
  
• Temporary paving and the removal of the Dallas Street bridge will be done in 2019. Dallas Street is the first bridge north of the I-75 and I-696 interchange, it is being removed and will not be replaced.
• I-75 will have 5 lanes in each direction from I-696 to 8-Mile. Currently that section has 4 lanes in each direction.
• During construction two lanes in each direction will be maintained by pushing the traffic to one side of the freeway and using crossovers

I hope that information is accurate and complete as possible. If anyone has questions I'd be happy to answer them if I'm able.

Take care!

[scarecrow]

This is great information thank you! Would love to see what the design is going to look like.

Still waiting on the final design for i94, but that should be ready by fall.

[EGrant]

Great update. While I'm not a huge fan of expanding highways for a stagnant population that doesn't have a terrible traffic problem, a diamond interchange at 12 Mile would be nice.

Trying to merge from 12 mile heading east on to northbound I-75 is a fun choice between flipping your car trying to get up to speed or merging at 40MPH because that ramp is so small.

[Luke09]

Great update. While I'm not a huge fan of expanding highways for a stagnant population that doesn't have a terrible traffic problem, a diamond interchange at 12 Mile would be nice.

Trying to merge from 12 mile heading east on to northbound I-75 is a fun choice between flipping your car trying to get up to speed or merging at 40MPH because that ramp is so small.

Oakland County is on pace to grow their population by 5% this decade

[EGrant]

And the highway project is adding 25% more lanes!

[hybridy]

The proposed tunnel doesn't sound very large at all, and frankly isn't even touching the amount of crap overflowing in Lake St Clair.

26.56 BILLION Gallons of Sanitary and Combined Sewage was discharged into our waterways in 2017.
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/d...t_641875_7.pdf

Think bigger folks:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...waukee-tunnel/
http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohisto...pages/367.html

[313WX]

Oakland County is on pace to grow their population by 5% this decade

They were referring to the population of the region.

The growth in Oakland Coumty is essentially just people migrating from others parts of Metro Detroit [[mostly Detroit/Wayne County).

[JBMcB]

The proposed tunnel doesn't sound very large at all, and frankly isn't even touching the amount of crap overflowing in Lake St Clair.

This will be in addition to the enormous holding tank at Red Run, which is basically the size of a buried airplane hangar.

Ever see a TBM? The small ones are the size of a school bus. Even assuming it's a *very* small machine [[I think the smallest you can get is ~7') at 6 miles long it should hold around 36 million gallons of water. At 14' diameter, it would double the holding capacity of the existing Red Run tank [[I think it's around 125 million gallons.)

[hybridy]

This will be in addition to the enormous holding tank at Red Run, which is basically the size of a buried airplane hangar.

Ever see a TBM? The small ones are the size of a school bus. Even assuming it's a *very* small machine [[I think the smallest you can get is ~7') at 6 miles long it should hold around 36 million gallons of water. At 14' diameter, it would double the holding capacity of the existing Red Run tank [[I think it's around 125 million gallons.)

Yeah, I stand by my statement. The MMSD Deep Tunnel in MKE is 36 MILES long and can store 521 Billion gallons. Metro Detroit storage/holding for combine storm/sewer stands at 160 Million gallons. source

[JBMcB]

Yeah, I stand by my statement. The MMSD Deep Tunnel in MKE is 36 MILES long and can store 521 Billion gallons. Metro Detroit storage/holding for combine storm/sewer stands at 160 Million gallons. source

That's 521 million. It is still a lot. If they use a larger TBM, they could get close to that capacity, combined with the existing red run tank.

[Scottathew]

I'm not clear on this, but the current Red Run tank is for COMBINED waste. I believe the M-DOT tunnel will be storm water only. If my thinking is right, the storm water could be pumped directly into the Red Run without treatment.

I'll try to get clarity on this if I interact with the M-DOT again.

[bust]

Sure is costly to get the infrastructure together when the ginormous sprawl of the Detroit metropolitan region has stretched it so thin.

Imagine how much easier it would be to serve everyone if Detroit were again a city of nearly 2 million, and the inhabitants of distant suburbs and exurbs were 1.4 million fewer.

[bust]

Sadly, this project will only exacerbate the sprawl.

Whatever it's cost, it's compounded many times over by every person it facilitates moving further North.

Meanwhile, what a mess.

First time back in Detroit for a long while, and I was driving up to Troy. Wanted Big Beaver West, saw a sign only for Big Beaver East, passed the exit expecting another, and had to drive all the way up to Square Lake due to the mistake.

Bad signage MDOT!

[hybridy]

That's 521 million. It is still a lot. If they use a larger TBM, they could get close to that capacity, combined with the existing red run tank.

yes, my bad.

[Atticus]

I'm not clear on this, but the current Red Run tank is for COMBINED waste. I believe the M-DOT tunnel will be storm water only. If my thinking is right, the storm water could be pumped directly into the Red Run without treatment.

I'll try to get clarity on this if I interact with the M-DOT again.

This is correct.

Back in the late 1800s before automobiles were big and we developed the road network [[and huge amounts of paved surfaces) we have today, the standard was to combine both storm and septic sewers together into one system.

By the mid to end of the 20th century, it was realized this was a bad idea and that the two systems should be separate... but that separation would take a ton of money and effort to build. And given how much our society invests in infrastructure, it is 2019 and many of the systems are still combined.

One advantage of large ticket items like the I-75 project, is that it finally provides an opportunity to fund the separation of the two systems in the project limits. So this will be essentially be a giant tank of storm water constructed [[with obviously no septic) that can store water collected during major storms, and then release said water when things are a bit dryer.

So regardless of what you may think of the I-75 expansion, this storm sewer expansion and separation should be a welcome addition by pretty much everyone.

[Luke09]

They were referring to the population of the region.

The growth in Oakland Coumty is essentially just people migrating from others parts of Metro Detroit [[mostly Detroit/Wayne County).

The state on Michigan is on pace to grow by 200k people this decade and likely surpassing 10M by 2020. Metro Detroit has grown by 40,000 in this decade.

[313WX]

The state on Michigan is on pace to grow by 200k people this decade and likely surpassing 10M by 2020. Metro Detroit has grown by 40,000 in this decade.

But Metro Detroit is still below its 2000 peak.

And consider it's been stuck between 4.2 and 4.5 million since 1970 with only a less than 1% increase this decade, that's statistically stagnant growth.

[Luke09]

But Metro Detroit is still below its 2000 peak.

And consider it's been stuck between 4.2 and 4.5 million since 1970 with only a less than 1% increase this decade, that's statistically stagnant growth.

It's been considered. I'll also consider that Oakland County has grown by about 40% since 1970, Metro Detroit has grown since 2010 and Michigan has added 1.2M to it's population since 1970 [[now estimated to be 10.02M in 2019). Plus car ownership rates continue to increase while carless homes continue to decline. This project provides improved service and the money is there

[313WX]

It's been considered. I'll also consider that Oakland County has grown by about 40% since 1970, Metro Detroit has grown since 2010 and Michigan has added 1.2M to it's population since 1970 [[now estimated to be 10.02M in 2019). Plus car ownership rates continue to increase while carless homes continue to decline. This project provides improved service and the money is there

Philosophically, I agree with the other person that it's a poor use of resources, for the reasons they stated. It's not just about the money being there.

Now, if the money were going towards a regional rapid transit system, or repairing the abysmal road infrastructure that already exists [[versus adding more unnecessary capacity), then I would be all on board.

[Meddle]

They could alleviate a lot of the traffic there for very little money. Re -sign I-75 out of Toledo up US 23 for through traffic North/South. Make what is now I-75 into the metro area a 3 digit spur/business route.

[Scottathew]

They could alleviate a lot of the traffic there for very little money. Re -sign I-75 out of Toledo up US 23 for through traffic North/South. Make what is now I-75 into the metro area a 3 digit spur/business route.

Re-signing would do nothing. Everyone is already using a navigation device or application and it always chooses the shortest route based on time. If you change the names of the roads the software will still route you on the same roads.

[Gsgeorge]

Re-signing would do nothing. Everyone is already using a navigation device or application and it always chooses the shortest route based on time. If you change the names of the roads the software will still route you on the same roads.

Not really sure why people are getting confused by the detours. Google Maps has all closures and constructions areas reflected on their app. I have been navigating / avoiding the construction perfectly fine using Google Maps. Oftentimes the app will find a better detour than the MDOT posted detour because the surface streets are getting pretty busy around rush hour.

[iheartthed]

It's been considered. I'll also consider that Oakland County has grown by about 40% since 1970, Metro Detroit has grown since 2010 and Michigan has added 1.2M to it's population since 1970 [[now estimated to be 10.02M in 2019). Plus car ownership rates continue to increase while carless homes continue to decline. This project provides improved service and the money is there

This is a completely absurd rationale for continued road expansion in Metro Detroit.

[Wheels]

They could alleviate a lot of the traffic there for very little money. Re -sign I-75 out of Toledo up US 23 for through traffic North/South. Make what is now I-75 into the metro area a 3 digit spur/business route.

Why would anyone stay on 75 if you were going to Flint or North?

[mtburb]

They could alleviate a lot of the traffic there for very little money. Re -sign I-75 out of Toledo up US 23 for through traffic North/South. Make what is now I-75 into the metro area a 3 digit spur/business route.

Couple problems with that - I believe US 23 isn't entirely up to interstate guidelines, and when it does get upgraded to interstate guidelines, it's going to be part of I-73 [[if that's still alive).