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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1953 View Post
    I was thinking about horse drawn carriages and bike riders, but make of it what you will.
    Some people forget: Detroit's hub and spoke pattern street design was created after the 1805 fire, so it was intended for pedestrians and horses, not cars, indeed.

    Detroit: A Planning History
    https://detroitplanninghistory.weebl...1700-1900.html
    Last edited by bust; July-19-19 at 03:05 PM.

  2. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gistok View Post
    Also, as I mentioned... keeping this minipark open becomes a distraction for people who otherwise might go to Hart Plaza at lunch.
    Spirit Plaza is the best thing that's happened to Hart Plaza in years! Crossing Jefferson on foot before was a nightmare. You couldn't make it in one signal unless you started running as soon as the walk sign came up. Since Woodward has been shut down a stroll will get you across with time to spare.

    Not to mention, having this area "activated" year round also brings people down to this area who otherwise wouldn't venture south of CM on foot. Once their they're certainly more likely to continue all the way to Hart Plaza and the River Walk.

    Spirit Plaza also offers much easier/more enjoyable access to the green guy himself and the fist.

    I was very skeptical when they shut down Woodward for this but I've really grown to like it as someone who is in this area almost daily.

  3. #28

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    Well the 4 city council members who were against it, must have some reason not to like it. I imagine traffic was a key issue.

    For those of you old enough to remember the Washington Blvd. streetscape, you all remember what an expensive mess that turned out to be. A trolley line ran thru it, lots of seating, sculptures, "Tinker Toy sculptural framework for a fountain, all 6 lanes of Washington Blvd. were narrowed down to the west side of the blvd., one lane in each direction with a left turning lane. Nice concept...except it killed off all the retal along Washington Blvd. And millions more were spent ripping it all out to turn it into a blvd. with parking on either side again.

    If this stays up... they need to do a few more years of trial before sinking money into demolish that stretch of Woodward.

  4. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by 48307 View Post
    I really wish they would do something with the space on Randolph between Gratiot and Monroe. I like the new road configuration, but the new space created by the road diet there looks awful. They've done NOTHING with it.
    I couldn’t agree more, that section looks absolutely awful, it looks like somebody put up a barrier for a weekend. What in the world were they thinking when they closed it off.

  5. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gistok View Post
    Well the 4 city council members who were against it, must have some reason not to like it. I imagine traffic was a key issue.

    For those of you old enough to remember the Washington Blvd. streetscape, you all remember what an expensive mess that turned out to be. A trolley line ran thru it, lots of seating, sculptures, "Tinker Toy sculptural framework for a fountain, all 6 lanes of Washington Blvd. were narrowed down to the west side of the blvd., one lane in each direction with a left turning lane. Nice concept...except it killed off all the retal along Washington Blvd. And millions more were spent ripping it all out to turn it into a blvd. with parking on either side again.

    If this stays up... they need to do a few more years of trial before sinking money into demolish that stretch of Woodward.
    Yeah, .. no. You think that Trolley really killed Washington Blvd?. ... I think you’d have to go well down a long list of killers before you’d get to that Trolley.

  6. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by gnome View Post
    Yeah, .. no. You think that Trolley really killed Washington Blvd?. ... I think you’d have to go well down a long list of killers before you’d get to that Trolley.
    No, that's not what I said... I just mentioned the trolley as one of the things that was added to the "urban redevelopment scheme" along Washington Blvd. The dailies said that closing off the east side of Washing ton Blvd. helped kill the retail in the area.

  7. #32

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    And my point was that before we plan on tearing out Woodward Ave.for that one block... if this does finally pass city council, then they should test it out for a few more years before actually making costly changes to remove the street and change the layout. Detroit is littlered with schemes of urban "fixes" that ended up being a waste of money and no benefit to the area. Just look at all those planters/canapies/decorative sidewalks that were added all over Detroit's commercial centers (Jefferson/Chalmers, 6 Mile/Wyoming, etc.) and didn't help at all. I remember in one area where the trees were maturing in the planters, but had to be cut down because they were blocking the signage of the businesses.

    It's expensive and dumb ideas like that that the city keeps tending to repeat.
    Last edited by Gistok; July-19-19 at 09:20 PM.

  8. #33

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    I happen to have liked the Trolley and found it pretty useful. RenCen to GCP for a quarter.

    The Tinker Toy thing. That was a killer.

    What killed Washington Bvd was air conditioning, or the lack thereof.

  9. #34

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    Gnome I too liked the Trolley, and wish that the city would have saved the trolley cars and relaid tracks to follow along the Riverwalk. Thus if you took a 3 mile walk along the riverfront, you could have taken the trolley back.

  10. #35

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    Not sure the overhead wires would be that great on the Riverwalk, but point taken, they should have done something with the cars.

    Although, they did run those Trolley cars for 30 or 35 years...certainly got their money out of them.

    Back to the Woodward park topic: half measures rarely work as hoped. In a more graphic sense: it is difficult straddling a picket fence.

  11. #36

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    I’d much rather they got rid of Spirit Plaza entirely and made the Randolph plaza permanent

  12. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by K-slice View Post
    Spirit Plaza is the best thing that's happened to Hart Plaza in years! Crossing Jefferson on foot before was a nightmare. You couldn't make it in one signal unless you started running as soon as the walk sign came up. Since Woodward has been shut down a stroll will get you across with time to spare.

    Not to mention, having this area "activated" year round also brings people down to this area who otherwise wouldn't venture south of CM on foot. Once their they're certainly more likely to continue all the way to Hart Plaza and the River Walk.

    Spirit Plaza also offers much easier/more enjoyable access to the green guy himself and the fist.

    I was very skeptical when they shut down Woodward for this but I've really grown to like it as someone who is in this area almost daily.
    People still have to cross Jefferson on foot with the plaza there. It's still dangerous. I always wondered was an overhead escalator was intened to be constructed over Jefferson unto Hart Plaza from Woodward but due to change of plans it never had happened.

  13. #38

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    I wouldn't mind seeing something that is a bit of a hybrid of Spirit Plaza and opening Woodward back up. You could limit the amount of lanes going through there, which would give you more space to programing in from the of the Spirit of Detroit and you can expand the esplanade to carry that through to Hart Plaza.

    Either way they have to do it that makes it feel like a permanent addition and not something that is cheaply/temporarily put up. I don't feel too strongly about it staying or going. I am often irritated by the traffic when you have to go around to go north on Woodward there, but at the same time I have hung out in the plaza on more than one occasion and enjoyed it.

  14. #39

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    Well, it will become permanent now after all. Overall I believe this is a good move. I drive this area at all times of day and have never had a big issue with the change in traffic flow. With proper signage and timing of lights, I think this will be a positive move for the area.

    http://theneighborhoods.org/story/oo...come-permanent

  15. #40

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    Good news! Now I hope the steps they take to ensure its permanency complete the vision, as part of a broader plan to make the area more pedestrian-friendly. Half way measures too often fail, and never realize their full potential.

  16. #41

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    Another reason to avoid the downtown area.

  17. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honky Tonk View Post
    Another reason to avoid the downtown area.
    A rather high opinion of yourself and your essential presence in this world.

  18. #43

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    Could they fix the Dodge Fountain in Hart Plaza? The space would be much more inviting with a working fountain. I remember it worked it was very "space age" - computer controlled and constantly changing patterns.

  19. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by gnome View Post
    A rather high opinion of yourself and your essential presence in this world.

    Thank you Dr. Phil. You go where you want and deal with what you want and I'll do likewise.
    Last edited by Honky Tonk; July-24-19 at 12:00 PM.

  20. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by gnome View Post
    Yeah, .. no. You think that Trolley really killed Washington Blvd?. ... I think you’d have to go well down a long list of killers before you’d get to that Trolley.
    Agreed. I would say it would be more accurate to say that the Trolley (which I don't think was a great idea) was unable to save Washington Blvd. And the idea that it might be able to was kind of nuts. I kind of liked the red metal structure visually, although it also seemed completely pointless.

  21. #46

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    Who knows the procedural step at City Council that allows a re-vote within 7 days? I believe you have to call it a "waiver" to get immediate affect of an ordinance.

    So strange that Council can just revote something within 7 days.

  22. #47

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    A pared down version of the Washington Boulevard Monkey Bars lives on in the Vernor/Springwells commercial district:

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ve...6!4d-83.127304

  23. #48

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    Washington Blvd was killed by things happening dozens of miles away from Washington Blvd.

  24. #49

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    ^^^ Oh...? What?

  25. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLemur View Post
    Who knows the procedural step at City Council that allows a re-vote within 7 days? I believe you have to call it a "waiver" to get immediate affect of an ordinance.

    So strange that Council can just revote something within 7 days.
    I don't know the ins and outs of city council, but it might have to do with the fact that it was a 4-4 vote so their was no action taken, so they could revote to try to solve it

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