Do we need more SoS offices?

[GPCharles]

I needed a 30 day temporary plate, which you cannot obtain online. Signed in online for West Grand Blvd. Office. There were 62 people ahead of me. After 4 hours they sent me a text and there were 28 people ahead of me. They [[6-8 clerks) processed 34 people in 4 hours?

I finally walked in at the end of the day and my cell phone number wasn't even listed on the electronic queue. Fortunately, the woman doing the document checking took pity on me and processed my documents in about 10 minutes.

[preserve]

I had to go in person this year to renew, over 3 hours. Felt sorry for the clerks, the security guard, the people with bored toddlers, crying babies, etc. However, I had my book, the a/c was working and I didn't have to be anywhere else. My clerk was super, friendly, and efficient and she would have to be there til 7:00 in the evening. Not enough people behind the counter and I agree with the others, they need to separate out the duties to make things run smoother.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

They need to do something, to speed up service at SOS. What I needed to have done, required me to go to the office, if not I would have went online. I arrived at 8:45 am this morning at the one on Orchard Lake in W Bloomfield Twp. When I got there, there already were about 15-20 lined up at the entrance. After a slow crawl, I got waited on about 9:15 am. Got my number which was 42. Then after a few minutes, they announced that the computer system was bogged down, statewide. They started at number 28, and it took 2 hours for them to call number 31. Needless to say, plenty of people walked out, so I got a chance to move up a bit. Finally got waited on, at 11:30. And to make matters worse, there was only 3 people working behind the counter, and the economy is suppose to be humming along. You couldn't tell from that office, they need to hire people. The change to Jocelyn Benson isn't helping one bit. It's just as bad as before. Ridiculous....

[GPCharles]

I emailed the SOS about my wait and got a complete BS response. If they think their system is so great, they should try to use it anonymously and then report back.

[Ray1936]

Being a MI transplant to NV 35 years back, I'm curious. What transactions with the Michigan SOS can you NOT do by computer at home? In NV, the only transaction that requires personal appearance is driver's license renewal every other [[4th ) year, unless you are over 65, requires personal appearance every renewal [[which is a good thing!)

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Being a MI transplant to NV 35 years back, I'm curious. What transactions with the Michigan SOS can you NOT do by computer at home? In NV, the only transaction that requires personal appearance is driver's license renewal every other [[4th ) year, unless you are over 65, requires personal appearance every renewal [[which is a good thing!)

A few things require your presence Ray. Like title transfers, Picking up handicap placards, and plates, and obviously renewing a expired license to name a few. Hopefully, they can add some of those to be done online at some point.

[ptero]

While a handicap placard does require visiting a SOS office, the worker handing out numbers for further service fulfills the placard immediately. There is no waiting beyond that first line, which can be long but it still beats waiting any longer.

Also I believe we can thank Richard Austin for changing when our registrations expire. Before he changed it to align with our birthday, EVERY registration expired March 31 and there was no internet. I can't remember if there was a snail mail option. The entire month of March was horrible at all offices. The existing March 31 expiration for trailers and such are leftovers from that old system.

[Ray1936]

A few things require your presence Ray. Like title transfers, Picking up handicap placards, and plates, and obviously renewing a expired license to name a few. Hopefully, they can add some of those to be done online at some point.

Yeah, hopefully. To get a handicap placard in NV, you can download a form on the internet from the DMV, fill it out, have your doctor sign it, and mail it in. The placard [[or handicap plates, if requested) will arrive in the mail. Took ten minutes of my time to get one for my wife [[counting nil time on a routine visit to the doc anyway.)

[archfan]

A few things require your presence Ray. Like title transfers, Picking up handicap placards, and plates, and obviously renewing a expired license to name a few. Hopefully, they can add some of those to be done online at some point.

Also, the RealID and enhanced licenses require a new picture, so those may generate extra traffic. But mostly, it's people who just remembered their license expired at the end of next week.

Also, I think a lot of people just aren't aware of the changes - I happily avoided visiting the SOS for several years before renewing my license two years ago. The previous time I was there, you couldn't add yourself to the line electronically, and there was no texting - you couldn't wander off.

[Pam]

I tried getting a handicapped thing for my mom last fall. After the check in line, I had to get back in the real line. I waited an hour and left when I heard someone else say they had been there 3 hours. They should allow those by mail.

[pocketchange]

I tried getting a handicapped thing for my mom last fall. After the check in line, I had to get back in the real line. I waited an hour and left when I heard someone else say they had been there 3 hours. They should allow those by mail.

Not sure which one this was at, but I have experience at 2 different offices of in/out with no issues to get one for my mom [[new + renewal)

[gpp1004]

I'm happy to report that I used the online appointment system for the first time and it went smoothly. My appointment was yesterday, which was the earliest they had available when I booked it about two weeks ago. So, yes, you have to plan ahead. My time was at 1pm at the Mack/Alter location. I arrived at 12:56 and was called to the counter at 1:02. I renewed my license, had a fancy new photo of my ugly mug taken, and was out the door at 1:26. Out of the thirty minutes I spent there, only 6 of it was waiting. Seems like a pretty good system to me. Hopefully it stays that way.

[Bigb23]

I try to always use the online system, but when I have to show up in person, the Romeo SoS north of town is almost always vacant of customers.
Worth the trip !!

[Honky Tonk]

I'm happy to report that I used the online appointment system for the first time and it went smoothly. My appointment was yesterday, which was the earliest they had available when I booked it about two weeks ago. So, yes, you have to plan ahead. My time was at 1pm at the Mack/Alter location. I arrived at 12:56 and was called to the counter at 1:02. I renewed my license, had a fancy new photo of my ugly mug taken, and was out the door at 1:26. Out of the thirty minutes I spent there, only 6 of it was waiting. Seems like a pretty good system to me. Hopefully it stays that way.

So Mack & Alter has the "Next in Line" system installed?

[gpp1004]

So Mack & Alter has the "Next in Line" system installed?

I'm not sure...

Is that the same thing as the online appointment system? I booked an appointment about two weeks ago for 1pm on the 23rd at that location. This system is available at all SOS locations, I believe.

If you equate it to systems at restaurants, I made a reservation, versus calling ahead and putting my name on a waiting list...if that makes sense at all?

[Honky Tonk]

I'm not sure...

Is that the same thing as the online appointment system? I booked an appointment about two weeks ago for 1pm on the 23rd at that location. This system is available at all SOS locations, I believe.

If you equate it to systems at restaurants, I made a reservation, versus calling ahead and putting my name on a waiting list...if that makes sense at all?

If you were getting text notifications as to how long before your appointment, then yes it was. If not, then it's something else. They seem to be trying a few different options. Either way it's good information. Glad it worked out for you.

[Wesley Mouch]

And who maintains them? Who fixes them when something goes wrong [[which happens to any software system)? And the answer to that is a technician who costs a lot more to employ than a SOS clerk.

Would kiosks be more convenient and helpful to people? Probably. But they would cost more, not less. Great ideas, but no one wants more taxes. They just want to complain about what they don’t have, but don’t want to pay more to fix the system.

While on the surface this is an absurd comment, it may be true. Governmental IT systems are often highly customized for individual gov't customers -- to meet their highly regimented requirements.

When banks first installed ATMs, there were often live clerks in the background re-typing the orders into legacy systems*. Once they proved the viability of the idea, they changed their legacy systems, and their processes. Here, I don't mean just their software, but the workflow. For example, City of Detroit had [[has?) cashiers that by labor contract had to process payments. So even if you had online payments, it was processed by a card-carrying employee. Private companies find ways to change this. Or they simply get replaced by a new company that does it without a cashier, a cash register, and a heavy rubber stamp.

OTOH, governments often can't or won't change their legacy systems and workflows. It requires a fight with entrenched managers and workers who benefit from the status quo.

Government is not the land of 'creative destruction', but of 'status quo'. Improvements like on-line license plate renewals might actually cost more. So you're often right, Atticus.

[softailrider]

That book an appointment feature at the SOS is great if you have the two weeks to wait. If you have to do something today or tomorrow and just show up at an SOS office, chances are you’re going to have a bad day. That’s just the way it is.

[Honky Tonk]

That book an appointment feature at the SOS is great if you have the two weeks to wait. If you have to do something today or tomorrow and just show up at an SOS office, chances are you’re going to have a bad day. That’s just the way it is.

STR, Again, the SOS has ways to lessen the pain, but you have to make an effort on your part to do so. I'm enclosing a link to their offices in Wayne County, that offer their "Get In Line" service. Just follow the link, pick the office closest to you, and get started. If you're not in Wayne, pick the county you're in, and then a location closest to you. If you operate like it's still 1960, well then you're SOL, I'm afraid. Jacking up the cost of doing business because you can't adapt just doesn't make sense to me.

https://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,4670,...908--f,00.html

[Vic01]

... If you have to do something today or tomorrow and just show up at an SOS office, chances are you’re going to have a bad day. That’s just the way it is.

OK, at the risk of having some of you get in my way, I'll reveal my [[not so) secret technique. If you "just show up" and enter the SoS office 5 minutes before closing time [[a safe margin so they don't lock the door in your face and still only a short wait), you're almost certain to have a good experience. There can be 50+ people in front of you [[who may have been there a long time), yet when they lock the doors the workers suddenly start working at a much faster rate... something to do with wanting to go home, I guess. I've haven't spent more than 15 to 20 minutes total in decades.
If you stop in any other time of day they have no incentive to get you out in less than 2 hours...

[gpp1004]

Jacking up the cost of doing business because you can't adapt just doesn't make sense to me.

100% agreed. Nobody loves going to the SOS - but they have leveraged technology to make it easier. If you're savvy enough to post on a web forum, then you're savvy enough to navigate the SOS website to make business with them easier.

[Honky Tonk]

OK, at the risk of having some of you get in my way, I'll reveal my [[not so) secret technique. If you "just show up" and enter the SoS office 5 minutes before closing time [[a safe margin so they don't lock the door in your face and still only a short wait), you're almost certain to have a good experience. There can be 50+ people in front of you [[who may have been there a long time), yet when they lock the doors the workers suddenly start working at a much faster rate... something to do with wanting to go home, I guess. I've haven't spent more than 15 to 20 minutes total in decades.
If you stop in any other time of day they have no incentive to get you out in less than 2 hours...

You blew it, Vic. The next time you decide to do this, you're going to find an additional 50 people, not counting the ones banging on the outside door.

[Wesley Mouch]

SoS customer service sucks. No news here. If you want better service, do just like we do with schools. Give them more money and more administrators.

But seriously folks, what else can you do? Some SoS / DMV's around the country seem to be OK. What's the difference?

I think you have to blame 'culture'. SoS offices just don't have a culture where customer service matters. And how can you change culture in a bureaucracy? Sears will die if it doesn't provide service as good as Macy's. Walmart is struggling to compete online with Amazon. And Alibaba is waiting in the wings to take business, profits, and jobs from Amazon. There's motivation to make things better. SoS? Not so much.

[bust]

I agree with your assertion bureaucracy leads to poor customer service. And that competition motivates performance.

But you asked a great question and only started to answer it.

What's the difference between the offices that serve their customers and those that fail?

Yes, it's culture. But if some offices succeed and others fail, it's not bureaucracy nor lack of competition, at least not fully. There are people in charge at the offices whom are responsible for their success or failure.

For my example, I'll change the topic, slightly, to post offices. Many fail to deliver good customer service, while some succeed.

The one that served my neighborhood in Brooklyn was almost unbelievably bad. The one in Rockefeller Center was quite good. The one in Grosse Pointe is mediocre. The one on the South side of St. Clair Shores is great.

Same bureaucracy, same lack of competition. What's the difference?

It's not demographics. The demographics of the employees in Brooklyn are the same as in Rockefeller Center, likewise Grosse Pointe and St. Clair Shores.

Another example: At Atlantic Terminal in Brooklyn there is a mall with a variety of stores. Customer service at the Target is abhorrent. Customer service at Uniqlo is quite good. The demographics of the store staff is the same.

So what's the difference?

I don't have a sure answer either, but I have a strong guess. I suspect it boils down to whether the management in place at any particular location instills ownership and empowerment within employees.

When management succeeds in making employees take ownership of the customer experience and empower them with sufficient agency to solve problems things improve, sometimes drastically. When employees feel no ownership of customer experience, and they have little or no agency to solve problems, the service they provide is often very bad.

Uniqlo does a much better job of this than Target, the USPS, and the SoS, obviously. But the differences that exist within the same organization from location to location deserve note, for they provide a path toward the solution.

[Pam]

Just tried the make an appt. thing- next available appt. was Oct. 2! Tried another branch and their next available was Sept. 25th.