Property Hoarding Ilitches

**cassique** · May-29-19, 11:40 AM

Found today's opinion piece by Nolan Finley interesting. I think that it mirrors many comments / thought processes that I have read on this forum. Enjoy!

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/op...es/1207178001/

**401don** · May-29-19, 01:58 PM

Please check for existing threads new guy.

**ABetterDetroit** · May-29-19, 07:54 PM

As always here opinions vary. I like the thread title because it brings up a specific large problem that the Ilitch family is inflicting on Detroit.

Hoarding and long term speculation on property is obviously the Ilitch goal and always has been.

Building and developing anything beyond the core business was nothing but lies to disguise this truth. They are still acquiring property currently and with their track record that fact is a major problem for the city.

I appreciate that Finley has gone on the record for the ongoing damage that is being done. This behavior is nothing but a con game being run on taxpayers. Not just in Detroit, but every tax payer in Michigan ends up partially footing the bill for this crap.

Blight is bad for business, families and communities and costs everyone money to address the problems.

**cassique** · May-29-19, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

Please check for existing threads new guy.

Thanks for the tip old guy.

**hybridy** · May-29-19, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Hoarding and long term speculation on property is obviously the Ilitch goal and always has been.

They're among friends. The biggest speculator is actually the Detroit Land Bank

Simply look under the rock of the FCA deal to see the other cockroaches...among many other carpetbaggers:
Morouns
Anthony Soave
Dennis Kefallinos
John Hantz
Michael G Kelly

Whole situation is rigged and rotten to the core.

**SammyS** · May-29-19, 09:34 PM

Speculation through land banking was the objective from the get go. It’s shameful and lazy at best and destructive to say the least. I suspect that they can’t keep this up for too long. The public has had enough, elected officials are likely on notice and the trust of fellow business folks will be depleted until the Illitch’s are ostracized and left out of future lucrative deals. It’s time to suck it up and pay the tab. No more enjoying the music with peanuts and ice water.

**Wesley Mouch** · May-30-19, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by SammyS

Speculation through land banking was the objective from the get go. It’s shameful and lazy at best and destructive to say the least. I suspect that they can’t keep this up for too long. The public has had enough, elected officials are likely on notice and the trust of fellow business folks will be depleted until the Illitch’s are ostracized and left out of future lucrative deals. It’s time to suck it up and pay the tab. No more enjoying the music with peanuts and ice water.

The public has no business providing 'lucrative deals'. That's the problem. Not the shrewd recipients. [[Although I find Ilitch's behavior here distasteful.)

**Scottathew** · May-30-19, 01:15 PM

These speculators need density to take off to make their land valuable. However, the more density they destroy, the less likely it is to happen.

**oladub** · May-31-19, 11:08 AM

Speculators might count on increases land values to help finance their projects. Another approach might be to elect politicians who can find some taxpayer money to subsidize development. Until that happens...

The City could also trade vacant properties it owns to city worker unions in lieu of full payment of pensions it owes. Then the unions could have the option of creating their own developments.

**Honky Tonk** · May-31-19, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

Another approach might be to elect politicians who can find some taxpayer money to subsidize development.

Been there, done that. Politicians gave the Ilitches $465 mil taxpayer dollars to subsidize development.

**Gistok** · May-31-19, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

The City could also trade vacant properties it owns to city worker unions in lieu of full payment of pensions it owes. Then the unions could have the option of creating their own developments.

Oladub... city pension funds have historically not been very good at spotting winners in pension fund real estate deals.

The white 7 story Sentinel Building on E. Jefferson was an investment that the Police fund paid for about 25 years ago. Only problem was they could not find businesses interested in office space, and years later it was sold for a loss.

Even worse... some city funds invested in a retirement resort in Acme Michigan [[near Traverse City). The result was a financial disaster, and the city funds lost over $40 million in their investments.

City pension funds have had a very poor history of real estate as part of their pension portfolios.

**SammyS** · May-31-19, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

The public has no business providing 'lucrative deals'. That's the problem. Not the shrewd recipients. [[Although I find Ilitch's behavior here distasteful.)

I'm talking about investors, not taxpayers.

**oladub** · June-01-19, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Oladub... city pension funds have historically not been very good at spotting winners in pension fund real estate deals.

The white 7 story Sentinel Building on E. Jefferson was an investment that the Police fund paid for about 25 years ago. Only problem was they could not find businesses interested in office space, and years later it was sold for a loss.

Even worse... some city funds invested in a retirement resort in Acme Michigan [[near Traverse City). The result was a financial disaster, and the city funds lost over $40 million in their investments.

City pension funds have had a very poor history of real estate as part of their pension portfolios.

Aw, you and Honky Tonk effectively poked holes in my brainstorming ideas. The federal government did succeed when it handed out free land to railroad companies to build a transcontinental railway. Maybe the City could emulate that success. If the City traded vacant land for pensions obligations it can't afford, it could help Detroit. Such agreements between the City and city workers' pensions would have to be agreeable to both sides. What pensions do with the properties would be of no more concern to the City than what private investors are doing with such properties. At least the City could stipulate conditions when making deals with city worker pension funds. I'm looking out for the City here. It's up to pension fund stakeholders to look out for their own interests.

**ABetterDetroit** · June-01-19, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

Aw, you and Honky Tonk effectively poked holes in my brainstorming ideas. The federal government did succeed when it handed out free land to railroad companies to build a transcontinental railway. Maybe the City could emulate that success. If the City traded vacant land for pensions obligations it can't afford, it could help Detroit. Such agreements between the City and city workers' pensions would have to be agreeable to both sides. What pensions do with the properties would be of no more concern to the City than what private investors are doing with such properties. At least the City could stipulate conditions when making deals with city worker pension funds. I'm looking out for the City here. It's up to pension fund stakeholders to look out for their own interests.

Ok, Got it. The pony express lost out to the iron horse some 150 odd years ago with some government help and Detroit should “emulate that success.”

Thanks for the suggestion old timer. Nothing will rev up Michigan’s economy like a dose of the 1860s.

So...what is on the ‘all Republicans are perfect and a gift from God’ channel before the dinner service anyway? Even more MyPillow commercials?

**oladub** · June-01-19, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Ok, Got it. The pony express lost out to the iron horse some 150 odd years ago with some government help and Detroit should “emulate that success.”

Thanks for the suggestion old timer. Nothing will rev up Michigan’s economy like a dose of the 1860s.

So...what is on the ‘all Republicans are perfect and a gift from God’ channel before the dinner service anyway? Even more MyPillow commercials?

No, you apparently don't get it but thank you for your vacuous idea free post veering toward ideology. The idea of brainstorming is to generate new ideas that sometimes create solutions. You ought to try it sometime, if you are capable, instead of suppressing independent thinking with name calling and ideology. Your post # 3 also failed to propose anything "better". Not everyone is capable but you still have an opportunity here to propose some positive alternatives. If you don't find history instructive then at least try to imagine a future as viewed through you ideological prism.

**Smirnoff** · June-01-19, 07:28 PM

When somebody is arrested, just update the thread. Anyone check-out Duggan's new "squeeze"? Sorry, wrong thread.

**Honky Tonk** · June-01-19, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

So...what is on the ‘all Republicans are perfect and a gift from God’ channel before the dinner service anyway?

Whitmer's money saving auto-insurance reform info-mmercial.

**ABetterDetroit** · June-02-19, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by oladub

No, you apparently don't get it but thank you for your vacuous idea free post veering toward ideology. The idea of brainstorming is to generate new ideas that sometimes create solutions. You ought to try it sometime, if you are capable, instead of suppressing independent thinking with name calling and ideology. Your post # 3 also failed to propose anything "better". Not everyone is capable but you still have an opportunity here to propose some positive alternatives. If you don't find history instructive then at least try to imagine a future as viewed through you ideological prism.

LMFAO! Seriously??? You took a few minutes from your daily posts on the Trump and Dems threads to come over here and call out your hypocrisy? You wouldn’t get within a mile of the middle you’re such a homer for your team. “Brainstorming” 1860 “transcontinental railroad success” shit to fix pensions in 2024. Like you were on topic and off your ideology crap. Hilarious. Thanks for the entertainment. See you next time oladub you’re always fun. I have to move on before the guy that has owned every kind of business that has ever existed and been brought up on these boards shows up to make ya look good by defending you. It’s not pretty when a pathological liar jumps to your aid every time because you both stick for Red so much he has fallen for you. You should get out more, you can do ‘better’

**oladub** · June-02-19, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

LMFAO! Seriously??? You took a few minutes from your daily posts on the Trump and Dems threads to come over here and call out your hypocrisy? You wouldn’t get within a mile of the middle you’re such a homer for your team. “Brainstorming” 1860 “transcontinental railroad success” shit to fix pensions in 2024. Like you were on topic and off your ideology crap. Hilarious. Thanks for the entertainment. See you next time oladub you’re always fun. I have to move on before the guy that has owned every kind of business that has ever existed and been brought up on these boards shows up to make ya look good by defending you. It’s not pretty when a pathological liar jumps to your aid every time because you both stick for Red so much he has fallen for you. You should get out more, you can do ‘better’

Thanks for validating everything I wrote in my previous post. I couldn't have done a better job of making a fool of you had I ghost written your post for you. Once again, you managed to be intellectually vacuous and contemptuous of histories lessons, brainstorming and unable to come up with any topical alternatives beyond criticizing existing investors. Heaven help Detroit if it had to depend on you for its betterment. If only TDS could replace historical insights, you might someday hit your mark.