Detroit Ranks Last in 2019 US Cities Scorecard for Millennials

[bust]

If you read the methodology page...

2,915 sample size, spread around the country.. People bored enough to respond to a dumb survey from a company no one has ever heard of before. That's all you need to know.

There are 2.4 million millennials in NYC alone.

It's a waste of time. And iheartthed is right: as is so often the case, you're trolling.

[313WX]

It's a waste of time.

No one forced you to respond if that's your opinion.

Myself and others will continue the discussion ourselves if you choose not to contribute. In the mean time, stop trying to flame and derail the thread.

[Hermod]

Most of the top ten are warm weather cities.

[Gistok]

This "scorecard" spent 95% of the pages talking about how thorough a job they did and how wonderful they are. Yes this is one big hype-fest by this company. All bluster and little specific info. Here is the info on Detroit.... do Millennials understand this better than the rest of us, or is this just generic hype? Or are they just showing off their web design skills... WTF?

[313WX]

Most of the top ten are warm weather cities.

Another observation is that most of the top 10 cities are low density and car-centric.

I know a lot of people would consider Detroit to be more "urban," but the list kind of against the grain that Millennials are clamoring to live in urban environments. Instead, one possibility is that Millennials simply want to live in a healthy, vibrant city versus a place where there's a persistent aura of decline and depression.

[EGrant]

People in Detroit don't like hearing that Detroit isn't the greatest city in America...

While this list was created to promote a data company, it is of much higher quality than most of the top 10 cities lists that get posted here, which are nothing more than lead generation websites for mortgages, banks, etc. And Grand Rapids always hilariously makes those lists.

[iheartthed]

People in Detroit don't like hearing that Detroit isn't the greatest city in America...

While this list was created to promote a data company, it is of much higher quality than most of the top 10 cities lists that get posted here, which are nothing more than lead generation websites for mortgages, banks, etc. And Grand Rapids always hilariously makes those lists.

People don't like always hearing that Detroit is the worst city in America.

[p1acebo]

People in Detroit don't like hearing that Detroit isn't the greatest city in America...

While this list was created to promote a data company, it is of much higher quality than most of the top 10 cities lists that get posted here, which are nothing more than lead generation websites for mortgages, banks, etc. And Grand Rapids always hilariously makes those lists.

I would argue that it is still an extremely low sample size, and with such a small n, you really can't take much from it,

Now is it worth discussing? Sure, for the sake of discussion, I agree that people get butt hurt when Detroit gets bad mouthed but it doesn't change the fact that the study is severally flawed.

[poobert]

I would argue that it is still an extremely low sample size, and with such a small n, you really can't take much from it,

Now is it worth discussing? Sure, for the sake of discussion, I agree that people get butt hurt when Detroit gets bad mouthed but it doesn't change the fact that the study is severally flawed.

I wouldn't say "extremely" low or "severely" flawed, but perhaps could use improvement. I think you can still take a fair amount from it, especially that in most categories that most people would define as important for a good quality of life, Detroit still ranks extremely low.

Contrast it especially with the "comeback city" mantra which includes exactly zero quantitative analysis. Zero. Sample size? Dan Gilbert. Mayor Duggan. That's about it.

For all the people losing their minds on this thread, you can still like a place that is royally fucked, I mean, I like, for example, Bosnia a lot, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a profoundly broken and dysfunctional place.

[Meddle]

Detroit may be a good place to be FROM, but is it a good place to go TO?

How many people have moved TO the city from other states in the last five years? People that have no roots there, no family or weren't born there? How many have moved there that weren't transferred there by an employer?

More importantly, how many of us who survived there and escaped have moved back?

And by city, I don't mean a sheltered enclave, I mean the city ... Dexter/Davison, Greenfield/Seven Mile, Lafayette/Lawndale and comparable least side locations.

[iheartthed]

Detroit may be a good place to be FROM, but is it a good place to go TO?

How many people have moved TO the city from other states in the last five years? People that have no roots there, no family or weren't born there? How many have moved there that weren't transferred there by an employer?

More importantly, how many of us who survived there and escaped have moved back?

And by city, I don't mean a sheltered enclave, I mean the city ... Dexter/Davison, Greenfield/Seven Mile, Lafayette/Lawndale and comparable least side locations.

I know four people with no ties to Detroit who have moved there from NYC over the past two years.

[Worldsgreatest]

Detroit may be a good place to be FROM, but is it a good place to go TO?

I've talked to realtors and very much of the buying in the city is from out of state people.

[Richard]

I wouldn't say "extremely" low or "severely" flawed, but perhaps could use improvement. I think you can still take a fair amount from it, especially that in most categories that most people would define as important for a good quality of life, Detroit still ranks extremely low.

Contrast it especially with the "comeback city" mantra which includes exactly zero quantitative analysis. Zero. Sample size? Dan Gilbert. Mayor Duggan. That's about it.

For all the people losing their minds on this thread, you can still like a place that is royally fucked, I mean, I like, for example, Bosnia a lot, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a profoundly broken and dysfunctional place.

But yet Detroit is still in the ranking and being compared to cities like Minneapolis,what does that say?

35 years ago Minneapolis was not exactly a nice place to live,they have had 35 years head start over Detroit’s 7.

[313WX]

But yet Detroit is still in the ranking and being compared to cities like Minneapolis,what does that say?.

Only [[as they stated) that they selected US cities that anchor major metro areas. Nothing more.

For all of Detroit's issues, by every measure it's still anchors a major metro. It would have been silly to exclude it.

[bust]

For me, it still comes down to this: Ask a group of people their opinions of places they for the most part have not even visited before, let alone lived there long enough to develop an understanding, and what do you get?

A person's opinion is only valid about what they have personally experienced. Otherwise they're just regurgitating stereotypes and whatever else they have heard.

Even setting aside the likely statistical bias, this poll is at best, just that.

[O3H]

No one is moving here to work at an automobile plant, they just won't.
That era is over and the sooner we realize it, the better off we'll be.

The first new U.S. assembly plant to be built by a major domestic
car maker in at least a decade -- and the rest of the country could care less !!!!!

With a culture built on Detroit pan pizza, coney dogs, and mediocre
sports teams like the Lions, Pistons and Tigers - it's ho hum snoozeville

If Detroit could ever really crack that TECH bubble and become a real mecca
of coders, developers, creators and entrepreneurs en masse, then it will bloom.

[softailrider]

I've talked to realtors and very much of the buying in the city is from out of state people.

You better believe that’s true - there are companies out there marketing Detroit houses [[if they’re mostly brick) to out of the country [[mostly unsuspecting) buyers. It’s driving up prices and lowering available for sale stock.

[poobert]

But yet Detroit is still in the ranking and being compared to cities like Minneapolis,what does that say?

Nothing, really.

35 years ago Minneapolis was not exactly a nice place to live,they have had 35 years head start over Detroit’s 7.

What in God's name are you talking about? As if 35 years ago a race started that Detroit wasn't made aware of? That isn't how this works. Minneapolis got their shit together before Detroit did [[because it still hasn't), there wasn't a bloody start. These cities has both existed for over two centuries and have had their time to figure this out.

[bartocktoo]

2,915 sample size, spread around the country.. People bored enough to respond to a dumb survey from a company no one has ever heard of before. That's all you need to know.

There are 2.4 million millennials in NYC alone.

It's a waste of time. And iheartthed is right: as is so often the case, you're trolling.

I forget my statistics classes and I'm too lazy to look it up, but I believe that sample size is enough to create a less than 5% margin of error. And ironically, as someone who has lived inside and also very near to the City of Detroit my entire life, I'd say the people most likely to agree with this poll are the ones who HAVE actually lived here, and those who have NEVER visited. It's the ones who visit every once in a while, or are hyped as transplants from the exurbs or somewhere else for the last couple years, that seem to disagree with arguments that shitty safety and shitty schools, employment rates and taxes kinda equal challenges to any city more than other issues.

[313WX]

I forget my statistics classes and I'm too lazy to look it up, but I believe that sample size is enough to create a less than 5% margin of error. And ironically, as someone who has lived inside and also very near to the City of Detroit my entire life, I'd say the people most likely to agree with this poll are the ones who HAVE actually lived here, and those who have NEVER visited. It's the ones who visit every once in a while, or are hyped as transplants from the exurbs or somewhere else for the last couple years, that seem to disagree with arguments that shitty safety and shitty schools, employment rates and taxes kinda equal challenges to any city more than other issues.

Fair points, and you should post more often.

[iheartthed]

I forget my statistics classes and I'm too lazy to look it up, but I believe that sample size is enough to create a less than 5% margin of error. And ironically, as someone who has lived inside and also very near to the City of Detroit my entire life, I'd say the people most likely to agree with this poll are the ones who HAVE actually lived here, and those who have NEVER visited. It's the ones who visit every once in a while, or are hyped as transplants from the exurbs or somewhere else for the last couple years, that seem to disagree with arguments that shitty safety and shitty schools, employment rates and taxes kinda equal challenges to any city more than other issues.

I agree that the people hardest on Detroit are either the people who have never lived anywhere else, or those who have never been. The people with a perspective of life in and out of Detroit tend to be more nuanced.

[bust]

I forget my statistics classes and I'm too lazy to look it up, but I believe that sample size is enough to create a less than 5% margin of error....

I haven't been to all of these cities, and have personally lived in only four of them. So I'm not qualified to have an authoritative opinion about the rest. My familiarity is passing with many of them. And as for those I haven't visited all I can do offer my impression of their reputation based on the third and fourth party accounts and stereotypes I've heard. Why should anyone care what I think about them?

Meanwhile, I'm middle aged guy who has lived or worked in 9 states in 3 continents. And who has traveled extensively besides. That's certainly far more than the typical respondent to this survey, who probably has ever lived or worked in 1 or 2 of them, and perhaps has visited a few more.

How many of the 2915 respondents of this survey do you think ever stepped foot in Detroit? Of those few who have, how many ever lived here? More of them probably got their opinion about Detroit from Robocop than from having ever even visiting here. Their opinion of Detroit is about as good as my opinion of Missoula. I haven't been there either.

My point: Even IF the theoretical margin of error is small according to some one-size-ostensibly-fits-all theorem of statistics, let's be clear about what this survey expresses. Simple common sense dictates it expresses nothing more than opinions of people who have little, if any, authority to hold them.

If we accept a sample of 2915 respondents out of a US millennial population of 73,000,000 is enough to produce a small margin of error, that still means nothing more than that the survey is reasonably accurate about expressing stereotypes.

And what is that worth? Very little.

[bartocktoo]

I haven't been to all of these cities, and have personally lived in only four of them. So I'm not qualified to have an authoritative opinion about the rest. My familiarity is passing with many of them. And as for those I haven't visited all I can do offer my impression of their reputation based on the third and fourth party accounts and stereotypes I've heard. Why should anyone care what I think about them?

Meanwhile, I'm middle aged guy who has lived or worked in 9 states in 3 continents. And who has traveled extensively besides. That's certainly far more than the typical respondent to this survey, who probably has ever lived or worked in 1 or 2 of them, and perhaps has visited a few more.

How many of the 2915 respondents of this survey do you think ever stepped foot in Detroit? Of those few who have, how many ever lived here? More of them probably got their opinion about Detroit from Robocop than from having ever even visiting here. Their opinion of Detroit is about as good as my opinion of Missoula. I haven't been there either.

My point: Even IF the theoretical margin of error is small according to some one-size-ostensibly-fits-all theorem of statistics, let's be clear about what this survey expresses. Simple common sense dictates it expresses nothing more than opinions of people who have little, if any, authority to hold them.

If we accept a sample of 2915 respondents out of a US millennial population of 73,000,000 is enough to produce a small margin of error, that still means nothing more than that the survey is reasonably accurate about expressing stereotypes.

And what is that worth? Very little.

One of the points I was making is that there is nothing about saying that Detroit has higher crime rates than most cities, and worst schools than most cities, etc. It ACTUALLY happens to be true. A kid living in midtown who grew up in Brighton and wears a "Detroit vs. Everybody" T-shirt up and down the Q-line should spend a few years living in 95% of the city before pretending to be some grassroots urban champion.

[bartocktoo]

I agree that the people hardest on Detroit are either the people who have never lived anywhere else, or those who have never been. The people with a perspective of life in and out of Detroit tend to be more nuanced.

Is that why the four people you mentioned that you know from NY moved to Detroit the last few years? I'm going to go out on a limb and say it wasn't because of the schools here, and it isn't because of any nuance. It is well-known and been written about quite extensively that the people moving to Detroit from places like NYC are mainly doing so because of the relative cost. And I don't blame them, it seems like a good reason. But it doesn't take away from the fact that this report many people are wiping their asses with was actually accurate in terms of opinions as to what is practically good about living in Detroit, what is not so good about living in Detroit, and why overall that puts Detroit at the bottom of the list. No amount of nuance would change it that dramatically. The factors against Detroit are actually quite objective. And it was city proper, not metro, which I think also plays into it because as an overall region I'm sure we'd do much better.

[iheartthed]

Is that why the four people you mentioned that you know from NY moved to Detroit the last few years? I'm going to go out on a limb and say it wasn't because of the schools here, and it isn't because of any nuance.

Weird comment. Nobody picks up and moves across the country for a school system. If Detroit had the best school system in the country that wouldn't compel someone to uproot themselves and move hundreds of miles.

It is well-known and been written about quite extensively that the people moving to Detroit from places like NYC are mainly doing so because of the relative cost. And I don't blame them, it seems like a good reason. But it doesn't take away from the fact that this report many people are wiping their asses with was actually accurate in terms of opinions as to what is practically good about living in Detroit, what is not so good about living in Detroit, and why overall that puts Detroit at the bottom of the list. No amount of nuance would change it that dramatically. The factors against Detroit are actually quite objective. And it was city proper, not metro, which I think also plays into it because as an overall region I'm sure we'd do much better.

Cost of living is obviously a factor, but it is also obviously not the determining factor. There are many places to move that are much closer to NYC and are also cheap places to live. Philadelphia is much cheaper than NYC, and is just a 1.5 hour train ride away. Chicago is much cheaper than NYC, has more intact urban fabric than Detroit, and isn't that much farther away from NYC than is Detroit. Many people do opt to go to Chicago from NYC, but now some people are opting for Detroit.