Two years in, Detroit’s QLine falls far short of expectations

[softailrider]

I’m in the city almost every day. I’ve never been on the thing, actually have no reason to use it at all. I drive everywhere I want to go, which is fine with me, I like to drive.

One of these days I’ll take a ride on it just so I can say I’ve done it.

[Zacha341]

Ok you stop meddling, or you're gonna get the anti-car folks a-stirred up ----! I find driving around, ahead or along side the Qline ok. Not as much of a problem as I thought it would be.

Put the little Choo-Choo out at Greenfield Village with the other one, or maybe on Belle Isle and give the streets back to the cars.

[Zacha341]

Where did you park your car? Is there a lot nearby at the New Center end?

I rode the Q-Line for the first time last Saturday. After taking the kids to a DSO children's series concert, we took it downtown for lunch....

[Bigdd]

Had to be in New York for business last week. Took the Air Train from JFK to Howard Beach and switched to the A train, which took me directly to downtown Brooklyn. By far the best way to navigate that city. Thankfully, they did not adopt the pave over/use buses mentality in the 1950's.

Sure,.. and when I'm in DC I use the subway almost exclusively. And when in Shanghai,.. the mag-lev is AMAZING for getting to the airport in 8 min [[at 270 mph) in luxury,.. instead of creeping through gridlock traffic for 45 in the back of a cab.

BUT,.. those actually go from someplace where people ARE, to where they want to be,.. and they do it faster than the alternatives.

The Q-Line doesn't do either those things. It's really just a place for downtown employees to expand their lunch circle. They still had to drive or take a bus to get to work.

[Honky Tonk]

Sure,.. and when I'm in DC I use the subway almost exclusively. And when in Shanghai,.. the mag-lev is AMAZING for getting to the airport in 8 min [[at 270 mph) in luxury,.. instead of creeping through gridlock traffic for 45 in the back of a cab.

BUT,.. those actually go from someplace where people ARE, to where they want to be,.. and they do it faster than the alternatives.

The Q-Line doesn't do either those things. It's really just a place for downtown employees to expand their lunch circle. They still had to drive or take a bus to get to work.

I remember when I used to go to Montreal riding the subways to get to where I was going. People there couldn't understand why I was so geeked out over owning a car. But their system actually worked. Remember the Detroit trolleys? You're not going to get the Blight Rail to work running it in traffic no matter what you do, curbside, median, whatever. Cut down stops? You cut down usage. Run lights? You can't even be serious with that one. Close off Woodward? You've closed off a percentage of outside [[read 'burbs) money coming in. About the only thing that's still working as planned is the People Remover.

[JBMcB]

BUT,.. those actually go from someplace where people ARE, to where they want to be,.. and they do it faster than the alternatives.

The Q-Line doesn't do either those things. It's really just a place for downtown employees to expand their lunch circle. They still had to drive or take a bus to get to work.

To be fair, it's also used by WSU students and people who live in midtown to get downtown. However, compared to airport or daily commute traffic, that's a relatively small number of people.

[Hermod]

Before this thing was built [[at great expense) the term "parking lot shuttle" was poo-pooed by the urban crowd here, but that was exactly what they got. My opinion was that the proposed line would be great for getting intoxicated Wayne Staters from the downtown bars to campus without a DUI.

I also suggested running it up John R so that it didn't create problems with the Woodward traffic and you could have pre-emption, but was shot down.

[dtowncitylover]

Where did you park your car? Is there a lot nearby at the New Center end?

There's multiple side streets that have free parking available.

[dtowncitylover]

Remember the Detroit trolleys? You're not going to get the Blight Rail to work running it in traffic no matter what you do, curbside, median, whatever. Cut down stops? You cut down usage. Run lights? You can't even be serious with that one. Close off Woodward? You've closed off a percentage of outside [[read 'burbs) money coming in.

1) The Detroit streetcars were median running and intermingled with traffic and worked just fine. The populace never wanted them gone and it was city government that pushed for abandonment in favor of "modern buses", which was one of the worst mistakes in Detroit history.

2) It's not running red lights. It's signal prioritization which would allow the streetcar to signal the light to change to green. That's already been installed in some spots.

3) God-willing one day lower Woodward will be pedestrianized because "burb money" will either deal with it or take a commuter train or bus into town and won't have to worry about cars. Then again we may not have to pander to burb money because the city will actually be functioning and have enough wealth and population in it to sustain an urban shopping district. Alleluia to that!

I actually don't get why people are saying there's too many stops. It seems the original Woodward streetcar route had way more stops.

[LongGone06]

Before this thing was built [[at great expense)

I don't recall the specifics of funding. Was there any public money used? If this was all private funding, the cost is not an issue. Private benefactors can direct funds wherever they choose, I suppose; and the results are theirs alone to evaluate.

[dtowncitylover]

Was there any public money used?

I believe $25 million from the feds. But no city or state funds.

[iheartthed]

Sure,.. and when I'm in DC I use the subway almost exclusively. And when in Shanghai,.. the mag-lev is AMAZING for getting to the airport in 8 min [[at 270 mph) in luxury,.. instead of creeping through gridlock traffic for 45 in the back of a cab.

BUT,.. those actually go from someplace where people ARE, to where they want to be,.. and they do it faster than the alternatives.

The Q-Line doesn't do either those things. It's really just a place for downtown employees to expand their lunch circle. They still had to drive or take a bus to get to work.

Actually, the NYC subway line was the catalyst for development in many of the city's neighborhoods. You could argue that the Q Line is doing the same. For the first time in a century there are high rises being developed north of Mack Avenue.

[O3H]

QLine stops dead in its tracks - for EMS, for Police, for Fire
They park curbside everyday, every emergency, all the time.
OOOOOps, oversight, perhaps someone being stubborn and foolhardy.

[Meddle]

one day lower Woodward will be pedestrianized because

Been tried.

Failed.

[softailrider]

There's multiple side streets that have free parking available.

If you drive a nice vehicle you may not want to park it on a side street for any length of time.

[Zacha341]

^^^ That was somewhat my thought......

[archfan]

I don't recall the specifics of funding. Was there any public money used? If this was all private funding, the cost is not an issue. Private benefactors can direct funds wherever they choose, I suppose; and the results are theirs alone to evaluate.

Well, if they're building on the city streets, the city [[and citizens) will evaluate the plans and results, too.

[dtowncitylover]

Been tried.

Failed.

Yeah because an urban mall doesn't work and not what we're talking about and downtown's shopping crowds were diminishing by the day and public transit was suffering and everyone then had at least 2 cars in the driveway. Pedestrianizing spaces doesn't work when car infrastructure is built.

[Bliebs77]

One additional QLine 'perk' that we [[CBD residents) get to contend with everyday is the CONSTANT horn blowing that these trains are always doing.

Someone [[usually some moron from the burbs) parks on Woodward with the ass of their car hanging into the lane, and here we go! 3 minutes of non stop whistle blowing, in a fruitless effort to entice the parking offender to come move their car. Of course, the offender is no where to be found, so howabout another 4 minutes of WHOOOOOOM WHOOOOOOM until finally the Transit police come and tow the idiot.

Finally, when the car is up on the flatbed, a bewildered motorist approaches the police officer with a disgusted look on their face, and the policeman points to the rail tracks in the ground.

This happens every other week in front of the Shinola Hotel.

[Gistok]

Someone [[usually some moron from the burbs) parks on Woodward with the ass of their car hanging into the lane, and here we go!

Ummmm.... since you haven't passed the "50 posts and half a brain" threshhold on this forum yet... just an FYI... anecdotes without proof [[do you know it was a suburbanited, or are you guessing?)... don't go over too well on this forum, where the city resident vs. suburbanite vs. out of state ratio on this forum isn't in your favor....

[Honky Tonk]

Ummmm.... since you haven't passed the "50 posts and half a brain" threshhold on this forum yet... just an FYI... anecdotes without proof [[do you know it was a suburbanited, or are you guessing?)... don't go over too well on this forum, where the city resident vs. suburbanite vs. out of state ratio on this forum isn't in your favor....

Good post Gistok. Please, feel free to add your proof that the ratio isn't in the poster's favor...

[Bliebs77]

Ummmm.... since you haven't passed the "50 posts and half a brain" threshhold on this forum yet... just an FYI... anecdotes without proof [[do you know it was a suburbanited, or are you guessing?)... don't go over too well on this forum, where the city resident vs. suburbanite vs. out of state ratio on this forum isn't in your favor....

Wow, so that's how it is around here.

I live across the street from the Shinola hotel and let me give you the blow by blow from the last three instances when this has happened.

April - A Woman in a hijab and her son [[wearing a Fordson Jacket) got towed while at the Nike store in a black Jeep. [[I have included a picture of the Jeep for your viewing pleasure).


Also April - A man with an Orange Brother Rice bumper sticker in a Charcoal Gray Grand Cherokee was towed.

In March - A couple wearing matching United Shore hoodies [[US is HQ'd in Pontiac) with a white Ford Fusion was towed.

Any other thinly veiled insults you would like to throw my way?

What an infantile imbecile you are; all you needed to do was politely ask why I thought that way, but no!! You opted to welcome me to the forum with unwarranted insults, which speaks volumes about the 'half' full status of your own brain.

Well, thanks good sir, you have certainly earned the title of asshole of the day. Congrats!

[dtowncitylover]

So wait, you live in the city's downtown but you're complaining about the noise from the streetcar horn?!

Also, your descriptors mean nothing. A woman in a hijab? A Brother Rice sticker? Are you saying Muslims and Catholics don't know how to drive?

Yeah welcome to forum buddy. Be prepared to be eaten alive.

[drjeff]

I drive down Woodward several times a week and without fail there is some asshole sitting in their car [[or left it parked whilt they "ran in" somewhere) blocking a lane between Campus Martius and Grand Circus. There are "No Standing" signs all along there. There should be cops there daily writing $500 tickets for impeding traffic.

[Worldsgreatest]

The M1 rail has a full life ahead of it. to judge it as a "failure" just because it hasn't reached exact ridership targets is moronic and nothing but biased clickbait news. You want the streetcar to be more useful? Then we need expansions with dedicated lanes along Michigan and Jefferson.