Michigan among top 10 states hit hardest by "The Retail Implosion"

[mtburb]

Not surprisingly, Michigan [[barely) made the top 10 states hit hardest by the retail apocalypse. Part of this could likely be blamed on the massive Detroit Three disruptions during the Great Recession.

Nearby states Illinois, Ohio and Pennsylvania had worse retail job losses.

https://www.businessinsider.com/reta...-job-losses-42

[ABetterDetroit]

Not surprisingly, Michigan [[barely) made the top 10 states hit hardest by the retail apocalypse. Part of this could likely be blamed on the massive Detroit Three disruptions during the Great Recession.

Nearby states Illinois, Ohio and Pennsylvania had worse retail job losses.

https://www.businessinsider.com/reta...-job-losses-42

What is not surprising at all is that this list is chock full of high property tax states. It makes no difference if it is a widget store or a widget factory. If the cost of the brick and mortar is much higher annually then they will locate to where the property taxes are substantially lower. It is a simple business decision that is made by employers every day in America. It is impossible to count on and live off of special circumstance abatements with miles of bureaucratic red tape.

Michigan’s tax laws have to be reconfigured to finance government properly and meet the needs of the whole population and at the same time remain competitive with a large majority of the other states.

Whatever advantage that Michigan had in the past to be able to get away with the garbage Lansing pulls on property taxes is long gone. The system is practically designed to prevent capital improvements to real estate with the exception of the ‘favorite’ communities. Sprawl is no longer king, the 1960s-1980s are over. There is nothing left to rob and move within in our own state.

Both political parties continue to push a failed archaic property tax system forward for entirely different reasons but the end result is the same. Jobs, people and economic growth are leaving the state for other states that do not have this problem.

[313WX]

Michigan is a textbook example of a state that is/was overstored.

Despite relatively stagnant population since the 1970s, the amount of shopping malls and store redundancies had drastically increased by the 2000s.

The auto industry collapse accelerated the apocalypse, but the region/state was always one big commercial real estate bubble waiting to bust with the ridiculous amount of building and retail expansions that were going on.

I was watching an episode of Alice the other day from 1980, and there was a joke about the irresponsible bank lending at the time that led to the over-saturation of retail space we have today. They wouldn't give her a $40 loan to rent her son a tuxedo, but they were apparently eager to sell her a loan to build a shopping center.

[ABetterDetroit]

Michigan is a textbook example of a state that is/was overstored.

Despite relatively stagnant population since the 1970s, the amount of shopping malls and store redundancies had drastically increased by the 2000s.

The auto industry collapse accelerated the apocalypse, but the region/state was always one big commercial real estate bubble waiting to bust with the ridiculous amount of building and retail expansions that were going on.

I was watching an episode of Alice the other day from 1980, and there was a joke about the irresponsible bank lending at the time that led to the over-saturation of retail space we have today. They wouldn't give her a $40 loan to rent her son a tuxedo, but they were apparently eager to sell her a loan to build a shopping center.

Do you travel around the United States? I only ask because what you are saying conflicts with what has actually happened around a majority of the country over the last thirty odd years.

Michiganders that did not leave have a strong tendency to set a very low economic bar. Next, they complain that the same low bar was actually set to high as a excuse for the failure.

[313WX]

Do you travel around the United States? I only ask because what you are saying conflicts with what has actually happened around the rest of the country over the last thirty odd years.

Michiganders that did not leave have a strong tendency to set a very low economic bar. Next, they complain that the same low bar was actually set to high to excuse away the failure.

What are you talking about?

[Danny]

Blame Amazon

[ABetterDetroit]

What are you talking about?

Nevermind. No chance we see each other’s points. Continue to Hulu up another episode of “Alice” for more economic lessons.

[Johnnny5]

Blame Amazon

I blame those in Washington for allowing Amazon to destroy the competition by operating their retail at a nearly continuous loss for two decades. Why should any other retailer of similar goods even bother expanding or continuing operation when the incentive is all but gone?

[313WX]

Nevermind. No chance we see each other’s points.

True.

All you seem to do is interject a completely irrelevant rant about property taxes [[or taxes in general) into discussions at every opportunity you get, for whatever reason.

[Richard]

Michigan is a textbook example of a state that is/was overstored.

Despite relatively stagnant population since the 1970s, the amount of shopping malls and store redundancies had drastically increased by the 2000s.

The auto industry collapse accelerated the apocalypse, but the region/state was always one big commercial real estate bubble waiting to bust with the ridiculous amount of building and retail expansions that were going on.

I was watching an episode of Alice the other day from 1980, and there was a joke about the irresponsible bank lending at the time that led to the over-saturation of retail space we have today. They wouldn't give her a $40 loan to rent her son a tuxedo, but they were apparently eager to sell her a loan to build a shopping center.

Even more so when you just take 6 years on thier own in the 2000s.

Corps were in a rush to capture market that it did not seem to matter how many redundant locations they built.

The people that instigated it walked away with millions and what is left behind is millions of sqft of newly built outparcels that are sitting worthless and vacant.

Outside of wal-mart and Amazon giving people a reason not to support thier local markets,I wonder what the level of retail space would have been today if one subtracted what was added in the 2000-2006 timeframe.

Is this a correction in the retail brick n mortar from a time when it was expanded purely based on short term demand,or a continuation of the internet impact.

[O3H]

But yet """selling things"" downtown will revitalize Detroit ?
There is no definitive item that will be flying off anyones shelves.
We had the watches, the bicycles, etc., etc. and still people are hopeful.

[Richard]

But yet """selling things"" downtown will revitalize Detroit ?
There is no definitive item that will be flying off anyones shelves.
We had the watches, the bicycles, etc., etc. and still people are hopeful.

It seems to have to be niche markets that survive locally,as more options are eliminated more turn to online and it seems like it is just natural for the younger generations.

I have piles of stuff bought online that was the wrong size,received defective,or went bad within days of use,it is more cost defective not to send it back and just go buy the same thing locally,sometimes a quick project can turn into a two week ordeal when dealing with online.

Waiting for it,sending it back,waiting for it again it to much of a PIA.

The only company I have dealt with online in over 10 years that nails it every time with the right thing and quality has been Detroit axle,they even beat what I can find locally in quality .

That is the difference they know their stuff where everybody else just seems to be a go in between for cheap crap.

That is why brick n mortar will really never die,there are some who still prefer to be able to deal with somebody that can immediately resolve issues and returns etc.

You cannot compete with a big corp selling socks using cheap overseas labor but maybe with a solid product that people are will to pay a bit more for the quality.

[O3H]

...and yet many followed Lands End policy leading the way

Period. “If you're not satisfied with any item, simply return it to us at any time for an exchange or refund of its purchase price.”

Return Policy | Lands' End Business

[Richard]

...and yet many followed Lands End policy leading the way

Period. “If you're not satisfied with any item, simply return it to us at any time for an exchange or refund of its purchase price.”

Return Policy | Lands' End Business

How to return merchandise within the U.S. :

1. Locate the Return Form you received with the merchandise and separate it from the Order Summary. Keep the Order Summary for your records.
2. On the Return Form enter the reason return code to the left of each item returned.
3. Detach the Return Label. Please make address corrections if necessary.
4. Fill out the section telling us how you would like your return processed [[refund, gift card or exchange.)
5. Enclose your Return Form with the merchandise in a sealed box. You may pay for the postage yourself, or attach the Easy Return Label. This pre-paid form allows you to put the package in your mailbox, USPS drop box or take it to the Post Office. We will deduct $8.95 from your return credit. Sorry, returns are not accepted at Sears Stores

To much messing about,get in the car,go to the store,buy the right thing in the first place and not have to keep revisiting spending all that time on a lousy shirt.

Depends on how one values their time verses the actual savings by purchasing online,sure if the right thing arrives the first time and you do not have to return it,but how much are you really saving when you have to spend time messing about with returns.

Even more so if one has a day job and cannot just drop into the local post office.

My favorite is,we will charge your account and send you another one then refund the difference when we receive the original back.

You screwed up and now want to play with my money for 3 weeks while i spend even more time and money sending an item back for replacement.

Imagine the interest they are making on that,you get 500,000 customers sending you money that you bank and collect interest on for a couple of weeks before you send the item back.

As of late I am finding Amazon to be in most cases double priced of what I can buy it locally,so that convenience seems to come at a price.

[EGrant]

^Many items on Amazon are also fake. Phone chargers, clothing, electronics; Amazon has no way of really regulating any of it, they're just the cheap distributor.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

The only company I have dealt with online in over 10 years that nails it every time with the right thing and quality has been Detroit axle,they even beat what I can find locally in quality .

Have to agree with you about Detroit Axle. I ordered a front suspension rebuild kit for my car [[mostly due to these shitty roads), and the parts fit perfect, were affordable and high quality. I'd recommend them to anyone.

[Johnnny5]

^Many items on Amazon are also fake. Phone chargers, clothing, electronics; Amazon has no way of really regulating any of it, they're just the cheap distributor.

Amazon could easily eliminate the majority of counterfeit goods on their site, but keeping them available is in their own best interest. So they have little to no incentive to do so, and appear to only do so when they are forced.

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/24/how-amazon-counterfeits-put-this-mans-business-on-brink-of-collapse.html

[O3H]

Amazon did come to Michigan - opening huge operation centers.
Romulus, Shelby Twnshp, Livonia, Brownstown all benefited with jobs.

Retail downtown isn't the magic bullet to turn Detroit around
into a financial powerhouse of viability thru tax revenue for services.

[O3H]

I do not hate Detroit. I was downtown volunteering at the Dequindre Cut.
Ate lunch and supported a local brew pub, AtWater over on Jos Campau.
The ice is gone, I'll be kayaking downtown, on the Detroit River.

What I despise is those who deal in smoke and mirrors, myths, nonsense.
Walking around with "perma-smile" 24/7, 365 is a foolish endeavor.
Discus hard facts, revenue generation inbound, for services outbound.
A few restaurants, trinket shops, here and there doesn't amount to much.

If people want to hate me, go right ahead.
I'll continue to my thing, the way I do it, just like I always have.

[O3H]

Can we stay on topic ? I didn't start the thread, it's not about me.

Thread:
Michigan Among Top 10 States Hit Hardest By "The Retail Implosion"

[313WX]

Can we stay on topic ? I didn't start the thread, it's not about me.

Thread:
Michigan Among Top 10 States Hit Hardest By "The Retail Implosion"

Oh the irony, lol.

[Pat001]

YouTube video of anonymous DetroitYES posters arguing online:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GboBmTdNr3Q

[O3H]

Detroit won't get itself out of financial woes via retail stores.

[O3H]

Let me back up that previous statement :

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-e...ood-resurgence

[Former_Detroiter]

Detroit won't get itself out of financial woes via retail stores.

I agree. What industry do you think will get Detroit out of it's financial woes?