New Downtown vs. Old Downtown Detroit

[stasu1213]

Now that downtown Detroit is making a comeback and will be getting H&M and other upcoming retail and restaurants do you think that this downtown will be better than Downtown Detroit of the 1950s? Do you think that Downtown Detroit with it’s unique concept will be able to rival New York’s, Chicago’s, Atlanta’s and Los Angeles’s downtown areas?

[SammyS]

Not many predicted Detroit's rise over the past few years so it is difficult to predict what's coming but, if past performance is any indicator of future results, then we're all in for a pleasant surprise. NY is a stretch but the others are certainly within firing range. I'll give it 10 years.

[313WX]

Now that downtown Detroit is making a comeback and will be getting H&M and other upcoming retail and restaurants do you think that this downtown will be better than Downtown Detroit of the 1950s? Do you think that Downtown Detroit with it’s unique concept will be able to rival New York’s, Chicago’s, Atlanta’s and Los Angeles’s downtown areas?

Not even close.

[stasu1213]

I remember reading somewhere Dan Gilbert saying that he want downtown Detroit to not be like a typical downtown or something he had said like that

[DetroitRises]

I remember reading somewhere Dan Gilbert saying that he want downtown Detroit to not be like a typical downtown or something he had said like that

It will be unique, and a destination for people around the country , but it will never be New York or Chicago. Gilbert tested things out in Cleveland before returning to Detroit and he has often compared this as a similar project on a larger scale. We’ ll Just have to enjoy the ride as Gilbert’s Hudsons tower, Monroe blocks, and eventually fail jail site project rise from the ground. As Gilbert has also said, Detroit’s greatest need is skilled workers and schools to train them, so we may see he focus shift behind the scenes. I think it’s telling he is selling off his casino assets. He will have more cash to build his vision.

[401don]

You're kidding right? There will never be a demand for the kind of bricks and mortar retail downtown that existed in the '50's and '60's unless you're going to get rid of every shopping mall and strip plaza within 50 miles and ban the internet.

[DeLemur]

Lots of progress downtown but nothing near the 40's/50's. I really hope Gilbert brings some more Detroit cultural elements into the 'feel' downtown. Its my one knock on him. He pours money into his buildings [[yay!) he works fairly well with other businesses ect, but his design is typical of the going rate for a city nationwide. Where is the Motown? The heavy manufacturing edge? The auto style? The Great Lakes? We need some flourishes in the design that evoke Detroit and the region. It takes great attention and creativity but will keep our fascinating story as part of the downtown picture. Because Detroit without a fascinating story is just a poor city with a decent downtown, craft cocktails and trendy restaurants.

[Worldsgreatest]

Not even close.

Agreed. Atlanta doesn't even have a proper downtown. it's built like a suburb. why was that thrown in? It doesn't even rival downtown Omaha let alone vibrant downtown Detroit.

[Worldsgreatest]

Its my one knock on him. He pours money into his buildings [[yay!) he works fairly well with other businesses ect, but his design is typical of the going rate for a city nationwide.

yeah, I mean every city in the US is getting development designed by Shop, and schmidt hammer lassen.

That was sarcasm for those who didn't catch. Gilbert's developments have been FAR above the going rate. some of you need to travel more!

[mwilbert]

The world is different. Of course the future isn't knowable, but there's no reason to expect downtown to be anything like the regional shopping center it was in the 50s.

On the other hand, the restaurants are already much better, and more people probably live downtown than have for 100 years. It's definitely in a virtuous cycle right now, so people are right to be optimistic, but there's still a lot of room for improvement.

[O3H]

How long does the New Downtown remain new ?
What is the timetable on the newness ?
For me, it will always be the Cass Corridor area, regardless of nickname.

[SammyS]

Gilbert's developments have been FAR above the going rate. some of you need to travel more!

Right on. A couple more Gilberts [[Ilitch, WAKE THE F*%# UP) and Detroit would be unstoppable.

[Luke09]

Right on. A couple more Gilberts [[Ilitch, WAKE THE F*%# UP) and Detroit would be unstoppable.

I keep waiting for Stephen Ross to enter the Detroit development scene, he is one of the largest real estate developers in the country and Detroit is his hometown. Anyway, to answer the original questions, Downtown Detroit will never be like those cities [[except mediocre Atlanta) until they fix the schools. Until then, they are only catering to single people in their 20s and 30s

[Gistok]

How long does the New Downtown remain new ?
What is the timetable on the newness ?
For me, it will always be the Cass Corridor area, regardless of nickname.

Cass Corridor was just the west side stretch of Midtown. And even in Midtown... the Woodward corridor and points east [[not even WSU) was never considered part of the Cass Corridor.

[Towne Cluber]

I keep waiting for Stephen Ross to enter the Detroit development scene, he is one of the largest real estate developers in the country and Detroit is his hometown.

Ross stated at the Detroit Homecoming two years ago that he will not be significantly involved in the Detroit development scene.

[313WX]

Agreed.

Thanks!...

[archfan]

yeah, I mean every city in the US is getting development designed by Shop, and schmidt hammer lassen.

That was sarcasm for those who didn't catch. Gilbert's developments have been FAR above the going rate. some of you need to travel more!

Yes, but both firms are designing buildings in many cities. How are the buildings here uniquely interacting with Detroit?

[O3H]

Midtown, corktown, downtown, the town, that town - clown town.
That was sarcasm for those who didn't catch.

[Atticus]

Downtown, from a retail perspective, is never going to be what it was in the 50s or 60s simply because of cultural changes. The internet and society’s shift from brick and mortar retail create a situation where the retail demand is not going to be what it was... even after if Detroit comes “back” 110%.

Next, comparison to New York, Chicago, etc... isn’t fair either, simply because of the different market sizes and tourist traffic. However, if you compare Detroit to similar size metros like Atlanta, Minneapolis, Seattle,etc... there is opportunity to be the best of that class.

[Bham1982]

yeah, I mean every city in the US is getting development designed by Shop, and schmidt hammer lassen.

That was sarcasm for those who didn't catch. Gilbert's developments have been FAR above the going rate. some of you need to travel more!

You do realize that SHoP does actually have developments built all over the U.S., right? And they haven't actually built a thing in Metro Detroit.

I have no idea who Schmidt Hammer Lassen is, and googling, them, they're not particularly prominent.

And if big name architects were the mark of a city ascendant, then Detroit must have been Dubai in the 60's, 70's and 80's, because Philip Johnson, Mies, Yamasaki and Portman all built prominent towers. In the last 20 years, the most prominent tower built is a casino hotel.

[Bham1982]

I keep waiting for Stephen Ross to enter the Detroit development scene, he is one of the largest real estate developers in the country and Detroit is his hometown.

Ross has built two sizable projects in Metro Detroit. [[disclaimer- If you're a downtown booster, probably should stop reading now).

Ross' firm built the Palladium complex in downtown Birmingham, and the AMC Star 20 complex in Southfield.

[Gistok]

Midtown, corktown, downtown, the town, that town - clown town.
That was sarcasm for those who didn't catch.

Since there are no psychics on this forum... reading the minds of people who are all over the map in their comments on this forum becomes next to impossible to read. That's why the use of <sarcasm off> at the end of a post on this forum becomes a must! Otherwise it's futile...

[swingline]

Now that downtown Detroit is making a comeback and will be getting H&M and other upcoming retail and restaurants do you think that this downtown will be better than Downtown Detroit of the 1950s? Do you think that Downtown Detroit with it’s unique concept will be able to rival New York’s, Chicago’s, Atlanta’s and Los Angeles’s downtown areas?

No. And that answer is in no way admitting inevitable failure. It's important for folks in our region to acknowledge that the days of "Detroit, the fifth largest city" are gone forever. We, along with the rest of the country, do not compete on the same level with New York. That city is on a different plane altogether. Nor do we compete with Chicago or Los Angeles. We don't even compete with Boston, San Francisco or Dallas. Our peer cities in the 21st century are places like Pittsburgh, Columbus, Indianapolis, Charlotte, Minneapolis, Nashville, etc. Of course, cities are more than their downtowns, but ours should indeed seek to provide commercial, residential, entertainment and tourist experiences to rival at least these peer cities. That goal is certainly attainable if our political and business leadership continue to make policy and land use decisions that build on the recent successes. And sadly, [[sorry to pile on the Ilitch family but) the District Detroit is looming larger by the day as a land use failure that will significantly diminish our city's comeback.

[stasu1213]

So maybe it is wise not to get too many stores downtown being that most people are ordering online but leave space open for any retail who want to invest in Detroit. I hear the local entrepreneurs say why don’t Detroiters support local. I would agrgue that if you want me to support local then make or sell products that could be an atternaive to the main streamed products. I shop a Carhartt because it is an alternative to buying a pair of Levis or Lees. I feel that downtown could have locally owned shops that wont go under due to a deep recession. Hudson’s was local and had sold quality goods that rivaled Macy’s, Nordstroms, and Jacobson’s. One thing that I give Gilbert is that he had given downtown Detroit a shot in the arm while others before him just sat on those buildings on Merchant Row for years and didn’t do anything to them.

[Hans320i]

It won't rival NYC or Chicago unless something happens that we can't foresee. But with a unique location, waterfront assets, international border, Belle Isle, old world street grid, and historic buildings from a city that WAS 1M large [[and a metro area to go along with it), it can surpass LA which has a downtown of almost nothing, Atlanta, and would more appropriately be in competition with Seattle, Portland, and maybe even Boston. We have alot more going for our waterfront than landlocked cities like Minneapolis, Columbus and Austin. New Orleans might be an interesting comparison. Houston isn't all that interesting. We can be interesting and unique AND bustling IF the current upward trends continue.