Ridership counts for Q Line and People Mover

[renf]

Are ridership data available for these two mass transit systems? The American Public Transit Association posts
monthly, quarterly and annual passenger counts for most
public transit systems in the country but does not, apparently, include the Q line nor the People Mover. The Q line web site does not report passenger counts.

I have a 2016 report of 2.286 million riders on the People Mover but nothing more recent. There has been some increase in employment in downtown Detroit so you might expect a rise in the patronage of the People Mover but Joe Louis closed.

Thanks.

[Jason]

The wikipedia page is out of date. https://www.thepeoplemover.com/about-us

The 2018 fiscal year [[July 1 through June 31) was 1,952,505, which averages out to 5,349 per day.

The 2017 fiscal year was 2,212,662, which averages out to 6,062 per day.


There's not much info about the Q-Line. https://qlinedetroit.com/wp-content/...r-May-2018.pdf https://www.crainsdetroit.com/articl...-in-first-year

2017 [[May 2017 to April 2018) was 1,350,000, which averages [[divided by 335) to 4,029 per day.

However, that includes May 2017 to the beginning of September 2017, when it was free to ride. After they started charging, ridership fell by 40%.


I think you're right that the People Mover's drop was from Joe Louis Arena closing. Other than dips because of construction on the system, its ridership has been pretty consistent, despite downtown's growth, so I'm personally not expecting dramatic changes, although I agree that it will generally trend upwards over the next few years.

While the People Mover had a drop because of the Joe, I think the Q-Line will have a drop because it's not free and there's less newness novelty. But as people get used to the new system, and as midtown grows, I think it will also generally go upwards over the next few years. But there's also the risk of them cutting service to stretch their money, or people giving up on riding it after too many bad experiences, or people learning that the bus is faster.


I do think it's telling that the Q-Line doesn't release much ridership information, and it doesn't list a schedule. If either of these things were good they would be bragging about them.

[Bigdd]

I spoke with the Q-Line people a bit over a year ago about this. They claim to not pay any attention to ridership, and so do not have any up to date data available.

And being as they are privately funded [[for now),.. there is very little they are required to reveal. However,.. per contract, they are required to release ridership numbers once a year,.. and so in early May or so,.. we'll get to see the first full years worth of data.



The numbers from Sept of 2017 showed 3,000 riders a day, with about 40% of those actually paying the fare.


According to QLine spokesman Dan Lijana, that 40% [[of riders actually buying a ticket) is higher than the 32.5 percent national average of similar downtown city rail systems.

[poobert]

I spoke with the Q-Line people a bit over a year ago about this. They claim to not pay any attention to ridership, and so do not have any up to date data available.

And being as they are privately funded [[for now),.. there is very little they are required to reveal. However,.. per contract, they are required to release ridership numbers once a year,.. and so in early May or so,.. we'll get to see the first full years worth of data.



The numbers from Sept of 2017 showed 3,000 riders a day, with about 40% of those actually paying the fare.


According to QLine spokesman Dan Lijana, that 40% [[of riders actually buying a ticket) is higher than the 32.5 percent national average of similar downtown city rail systems.

A transit entity that doesn't pay attention to ridership? Well that is special, isn't it?

One look at his LinkedIn and it appears that Dan Lijana appears to deal in spin. "[[he) provide[[s) communications and marketing strategy that shapes public opinion." Apologies if you've just eaten.

[iheartthed]

I do think it's telling that the Q-Line doesn't release much ridership information, and it doesn't list a schedule. If either of these things were good they would be bragging about them.

I'm fuzzy on the details, but is the Q-Line technically private? It doesn't get operating capital from public funds, right?

[Jason]

I'm fuzzy on the details, but is the Q-Line technically private? It doesn't get operating capital from public funds, right?

Yeah, it's private. It did get some federal money iirc, but that might have technically been passed through one of the public agencies. I'm not sure exactly how that worked.

The QLine organization itself doesn't actually do much, a company called Transdev is the one who operates, maintains, does fare collection, everything. The People Mover provides and is reimbursed for transit police, which they also do for DDOT.

The initial fundraising included money for 10 years of operations. I'm not sure whether or not the 10 years number includes revenues based on projected ridership.

The idea was that after the 10 years, it would be taken over by the RTA, or some other public transit agency. As far as I know, the various public transit agencies could decline to take it over. I don't think DDOT or DTC [[People Mover) would want it, but I don't know anything about the behind the scenes politics of it.

[O3H]

Would it be called a P3 enterprise ?

[Jason]

Would it be called a P3 enterprise ?

It wouldn't.

In public private partnerships, the government has requirements, and bids out the project. Groups of companies will form consortiums and respond, and the government will pick a winner. The consortium might manage, partially finance, design, build, operate, and maintain the system for a certain number of years, and they might get a cut of the fares, or payments based on certain factors. Rather than just make money from providing services, they make money as investors.

The QLine isn't a government project, and it's not intended to be a profitable company.