Impact of Delta hub on Metro Detroit?

[MicrosoftFan]

One thing that sets Detroit apart from its midwestern counterparts is its airport. Delta's CEO once said in an interview that DTW is "the best airport in North America". Detroit is currently the second largest hub of one of the world's largest airline, undoubtedly bringing thousands of jobs in the aviation industry to the area.

Unfortunately, other midwestern cities have not been so lucky. Cleveland lost its United hub recently, and it now serves a shell of the passengers it once carried. Cincinnati is still a "focus city" for Delta, but it has been severely rolled back from its 1990s peak as Delta's 2nd largest hub. Worse, St. Louis dropped billions and leveled a neighborhood to build a long runway for long haul TWA flights- until TWA merged with American and American dropped the hub after 9/11. Worst of all, Pittsburgh built a massive, new, cutting-edge terminal for US Airways before they quickly departed to build a Philadelphia hub.

These other cities have lost hundreds to thousands of jobs and now see little to no international service, but Detroit maintains flights to Tokyo, Shanghai, Beijing, Seoul, Nagoya, London, Amsterdam, Rome, Paris, and Frankfurt. What is the impact of Detroit's continued use as a "fortress hub" for Delta and how would the area be different without it?

[Onthe405]

You can also add once-bustling Memphis to the cities thrown under the bus by Delta. How to assess DTW's situation? Good news that it's an economic engine & favored airport at the moment [[and hope that continues)---but also facing the reality that the plug could pulled on a whim by Delta with no advance notice, consequence, or conscience.

I've mentioned this point a couple times in previous threads: from a consumer standpoint, a city dominated by one airline as its "hub" doesn't automatically translate to convenience. Great that I can get a nonstop from Detroit to London . . . .but what if Delta's fare is exorbitant, is booked, or doesn't fit my schedule? What other choices do I have for a nonstop?

The advantage to cities like Chicago, NYC/Newark, Los Angeles, and Miami is that one airline doesn't overwhelmingly dominate the entire market [[domestic or international). The competition drives better schedules & fares for consumers living there. Granted, if a giant like United pulled out of ORD, the economic impact would be immense, and it isn't likely there could be a replacement for all those gates. Still, ORD's fate is not as vulnerable as DTW's total dependence on Delta.

[Bigb23]

Well said - who can add anything to those two posts ? Oh O3H.

[313WX]

Just a slight fact check:

DTW is only the 2nd largest hub by number of aircraft operations. In terms of passenger volume and destination, Minneapolis is actually Delta's 2nd largest hub.

Detroit has geography and scale on its side. Plus, the government would never approve the merger of Delta and one of the other big airlines [[American, United, Southwest, etc.), so I don't expect Delta to dump Detroit any time soon.

[401don]

What other choices do I have for a nonstop?

You can take the Via Rail train to downtown Toronto and then take the new convenient Up Express to the airport [[leaves every 15 min.)

[Lowell]

The transformation of DTW was been a triumph political and economic development largely through auspices of Wayne County. Friends I pick up have very favorable impressions.

From one dingy terminal we now have two clean and efficient terminals--in particular the McNamara [Delta's base]. Because of that I would pay more [within reason] to fly Delta, something I am guessing other might consider.

For obvious reasons I've never transferred through it, but I can imagine that transferring through it has to be a pleasant experience when I consider others where I have--Charlotte and Miami come to mind. Delta must notice such customer satisfaction.

[eastland]

Metro's runway configuration also makes it more efficient for airlines to operate at the airport. That is a big factor.

He often is maligned, but Ed McNamara had the vision and political expertise to make it happen.

[hybridy]

DTW is amazing. Easy in/out. Really good retail/food offerings. Big, bright and clean. It’s certainly a showcase for the region. I miss living in a hub city, especially for business travel as non-stop options become fewer and far between.

[Atticus]

The metropolitan area that DTW serves is over twice as big as Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, and other locations with airports that have been “de-hubed”.

The Detroit market is actually the perfect size in that it is more than big enough to serve as a hub for one airline, but not big enough to attract two [[like Chicago). This means Delta has a large enough market to meet its need, and yet it faces minimal competition. Point being, Detroit is actually one of the most profitable hubs to any airline, and is a big reason why Delta is the most profitable US airline. Delta actually makes more money in Detroit than United or American do in OHare, despite Chicago being a larger business region.

As for the complaint that Delta ticket prices are high, it is very true. But it is a necessary evil to meet the needs of the business community. If you talk to the Chamber of Commerce types in Indy, Cleveland, St. Louis, etc., they are all incredibly jealous of what Detroit has in DTW. Large corporations and business flyers don’t really care how expensive the ticket is, they just want the direct flight. Because of which, the Detroit region is able to attract business investment those other regions simply can’t.

For the casual flyer, it does suck that international flights are so expensive. But the blame shouldn’t be directed as Delta, and instead directed at the lack of lower cost airlines serving DTW. M This is why it is important to the region that the airport attract airlines like Norwegian, Aer Lingus, or Iceland Air. There is a good business case to be made for all three, and they would go a long ways in offering more affordable Transatlantic ticket fares, especially in WOWs absence. Delta serves business and premium travelers internationally, and will continue to do so and charge high international prices even if those other airlines come.

I could talk all day, but the summary is there are two markets: the business market and the budget conscious market. DTW with the help of Delta does an excellent job on the business market side, but the airport could still improve on the budget market side. Budget carriers will bring the lower prices. Fingers crossed they come.

[Luke09]

You guys are lucky to have Delta and DTW. Delta provides a better flying experience than United or American, I have over 350k in miles on all three. And, DTW is one of the best airports in the country, right up there with Denver's airport. Here we have LAX, which is going thru major renovations, but it will still fall short of the DTW travel experience after getting completed, very similar to what's happening at LGA.

[Zozo]

From one dingy terminal we now have two clean and efficient terminals--in particular the McNamara [Delta's base]. Because of that I would pay more [within reason] to fly Delta, something I am guessing other might consider.

I'm a frequent flyer and I've had more bad experiences at DTW than good. I find that the airport employees are the worst in the country. I was once cussed at by an airport janitor who was cleaning the bathroom I had entered, but he had neglected to post any signs that the bathroom was closed for cleaning. Another time I dropped off my luggage at the skycab, and because I didn't give the employee a tip, he stated in earnest that my luggage might not make it to it's final destination.

The wait time to retrieve your luggage is also way too much. Why does it take so long? Sometimes myself, and the rest of the passengers, are waiting twenty-five to thirty minutes for our luggage.

The process of picking up arriving passengers is worse than airports in third world counties. There is absolutely no organization of traffic. All the drivers are just dive-bombing into any space that opens up, all while being screamed at by Michigan State Troopers, who seem to be just randomly blowing whistles "directing" traffic. Whatever they are trying to do doesn't work. The traffic jams are epic, and even finding your Uber driver is a nightmare.

Also you'll never see a worse airport for trash. The exterior of the airport is covered in litter, and the passenger pick up areas are also covered in dead cigarette butts and other bits of plastic junk from cigarette boxes and candy wrappers.

I agree that the terminals are high quality, but I've never had these horrible experiences at other airports. DTW has a long, long way to go to provide a better experience to flyers.

[Gistok]

Geeze.... you remind me of some of the one star YELP reviews... while everyone else gives 4 or 5 stars....

[iheartthed]

Also you'll never see a worse airport for trash. The exterior of the airport is covered in litter, and the passenger pick up areas are also covered in dead cigarette butts and other bits of plastic junk from cigarette boxes and candy wrappers.

I fly into DTW quite often and cannot ever remember seeing any trash on the ground outside. I also fly on average several times per month, and DTW is one of the best airports in the world. I would much rather be stuck in the McNamara Terminal than almost any other airport terminal in the world, and I've seen quite a lot of them.

DTW is easily the most pleasant experience of any major Delta hub.

[SpartanDawg]

The metropolitan area that DTW serves is over twice as big as Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, and other locations with airports that have been “de-hubed”.

The Detroit market is actually the perfect size in that it is more than big enough to serve as a hub for one airline, but not big enough to attract two [[like Chicago). This means Delta has a large enough market to meet its need, and yet it faces minimal competition. Point being, Detroit is actually one of the most profitable hubs to any airline, and is a big reason why Delta is the most profitable US airline. Delta actually makes more money in Detroit than United or American do in OHare, despite Chicago being a larger business region.

As for the complaint that Delta ticket prices are high, it is very true. But it is a necessary evil to meet the needs of the business community. If you talk to the Chamber of Commerce types in Indy, Cleveland, St. Louis, etc., they are all incredibly jealous of what Detroit has in DTW. Large corporations and business flyers don’t really care how expensive the ticket is, they just want the direct flight. Because of which, the Detroit region is able to attract business investment those other regions simply can’t.

For the casual flyer, it does suck that international flights are so expensive. But the blame shouldn’t be directed as Delta, and instead directed at the lack of lower cost airlines serving DTW. M This is why it is important to the region that the airport attract airlines like Norwegian, Aer Lingus, or Iceland Air. There is a good business case to be made for all three, and they would go a long ways in offering more affordable Transatlantic ticket fares, especially in WOWs absence. Delta serves business and premium travelers internationally, and will continue to do so and charge high international prices even if those other airlines come.

I could talk all day, but the summary is there are two markets: the business market and the budget conscious market. DTW with the help of Delta does an excellent job on the business market side, but the airport could still improve on the budget market side. Budget carriers will bring the lower prices. Fingers crossed they come.

what in the world? I've had such a stark opposite experience to this, i fly in and out of dtw [[majority on delta in mcnamara) at least twice a year and every single time i have landed at the different airport i have been so thankful for having dtw as my homebase. it is hands down my favorite airport in the united states. the only other airport that i enjoyed was ronald reagan DCA, also had big bright terminals, huge windows, and high ceilings, although not quite as organized and clean/simple as DTW.

[Gistok]

what in the world? I've had such a stark opposite experience to this, i fly in and out of dtw [[majority on delta in mcnamara) at least twice a year and every single time i have landed at the different airport i have been so thankful for having dtw as my homebase. it is hands down my favorite airport in the united states. the only other airport that i enjoyed was ronald reagan DCA, also had big bright terminals, huge windows, and high ceilings, although not quite as organized and clean/simple as DTW.

Hey SpartanDawg... are you replying to the right comment? Atticus didn't poo-poo DTW...

[JDKeepsmiling]

I am a very frequent flyer, averaging flying about 40 weeks a year. DTW is a phenomenal airport, arguably the best large airport in the country. I still prefer to fly into smaller regional airports when able, but for a large airport, DTW is remarkably spacious and has some great amenities.

As far as its impact on the region. I work for a for a Fortune 500 company, in national sales. This company is HQ'd in Miami. They only have a few stipulations on where folks are located. The main one is that they are by a hub airport for a major airline. This means our 30+ team of national salespeople have like 12 cities to choose from, with Detroit being one of them. My company has 4 folks based out of Detroit right now. Average pay is probably about 250k. This is a direct result of Delta having a hub here. There are lots more companies like mine.

As far as the future of DTW as a Delta hub. I think we are pretty secure short and medium term. It's still a relatively new terminal, well run with a great customer experience for Delta's customers. If you are a airline dork [[like me), and have a chance you can read the airports strategic plan, and it is relentlessly focused on driving down per passenger costs to the airlines, which in turn attracts more flights. Currently DTW is just above 10 bucks, which is pretty solid, middle of the pack. ATL is the best in the country and they are around $5.50. DTW has a plan to get under 6, and if they can do that I can see Delta slowly moving stuff from Minneapolis to Detroit. If there is a Delta hub at risk, my money would be on Minneapolis.

[iheartthed]

As far as the future of DTW as a Delta hub. I think we are pretty secure short and medium term. It's still a relatively new terminal, well run with a great customer experience for Delta's customers. If you are a airline dork [[like me), and have a chance you can read the airports strategic plan, and it is relentlessly focused on driving down per passenger costs to the airlines, which in turn attracts more flights. Currently DTW is just above 10 bucks, which is pretty solid, middle of the pack. ATL is the best in the country and they are around $5.50. DTW has a plan to get under 6, and if they can do that I can see Delta slowly moving stuff from Minneapolis to Detroit. If there is a Delta hub at risk, my money would be on Minneapolis.

Yes, agree that Delta would de-emphasize MSP before DTW. Delta already flies quite a few more international routes from DTW than MSP.

I think there is risk to DTW if there was a sudden shake-up driven by a major recession or some other disaster. But in the status quo, I think Detroit wins over MSP.

[mwilbert]

I fly a reasonable amount, not every week or anything like that, but I fly into lots of different airports. I agree with the people who say that in general a smaller regional airport is a better experience than a large airport, but as large airports go DTW is pretty good. Biggest drawback of DTW relative to many other airports are bad options for surface connections if you aren't driving.

It is clearly a major advantage to the region, as it makes it easy to get lots of places on one plane, which is certainly what I always want if possible. For example, it lets me fly non-stop to the Manchester NH airport instead of Boston Logan which is a much bigger pain to deal with if you aren't just making a connection there.

If you think about a city like Columbus, which is kind of a competitor city, it is a pain to get to from a lot of places by air, both because of flight schedules and prices. I know people who fly into Pittsburgh and drive rather than fly to Columbus.

[rb336]

Minneapolis is the worst. I've had to pick up people flying into DTW from Delta's hub there enough times that I plan for them to be at least 1/2 an hour late, if not more.

[LongGone06]

I'm a frequent flyer and I've had more bad experiences at DTW than good.

I find DTW to be a much better experience than JFK, Newark, or DFW. My only complaint is after picking up your luggage on the lower level, you have to go back up to cross the road, then down again to get to ground transportation.

[313WX]

DTW has a plan to get under 6, and if they can do that I can see Delta slowly moving stuff from Minneapolis to Detroit. If there is a Delta hub at risk, my money would be on Minneapolis.

Can you please explain why you believe this? I'm curious to hear your reasoning.

Right now, Delta has actually been increasing the number of daily flights and destinations out of MSP. MSP also has a much more diverse economy and is growing at a much faster pace than Detroit, which would suggest it has better organic growth potential over the long term. MSP has already surpassed DTW in terms of passenger count.

While Detroit has more international flights now, I would think many of those routes could be at risk as the Big 3 continue to shrink thier global footprint and market share [[for example, GM leaving Europe).

[313WX]

And to be clear, I don't think either DTW or MSP will be de-hubbed. They both serve markets that don't overlap with each other and are Delta's by-far largest hubs in the country. That being said, I simply don't see a ton of growth potential for DTW either.

[JDKeepsmiling]

Can you please explain why you believe this? I'm curious to hear your reasoning.

Well, primarily it is based on a couple of thoughts.

1. Facilities - DTW is really top notch. I am not aware of any significant renovations planned for MSP's Delta Terminal. DTW is well maintained, and has a little room, especially in Concourse C to add flights.

2. Cost - If DTW can get its landed passenger cost down to ATL levels, which is pretty much unheard of anywhere else, it will become very attractive as an place for flights to go to regardless of the actual destination. ATL is jam packed and is struggling to handle the current traffic. Delta obviously prefers there due to landed cost, but that could shift in DTW's favor if they can get their costs down. In reading the plan, they primarily plan on doing that by paying off debt, not any service cuts.

3. You site expansion of service at MSP, but the fact is that Delta has been expanding service at DTW as well. Just a cursory glance has them adding additional flights to Mexico City, Bozeman, MT, Tokyo, a new route to Honolulu, and a new route to Sacramento and San Jose. Again, just a cursory internet search.

Like you, I don't see them dehubbing anywhere, more where any expansion of the network would go. This does not have to be dependent on the local economy, as I am more talking about where they would add flights to serve the entire network. However, I would say the Detroit mobility scene is more international then ever, and less reliant on the Detroit 3 then ever. Still a weakness, but not as glaring as in the past.

[Atticus]

And to be clear, I don't think either DTW or MSP will be de-hubbed. They both serve markets that don't overlap with each other and are Delta's by-far largest hubs in the country. That being said, I simply don't see a ton of growth potential for DTW either.

Agree. DTW biggest problem is the awful design on the ground transportation side, rental car facilities, and lack of transit options to downtown.

Basically from ticket counter to baggage claim, there isn’t a better airport in the country than DTW. But for someone from out of town,getting from the baggage claim to a rental car or to the city center is a giant pain compared to the majority of other mid to large sized airports in this country.

It would be easy enough to build a nice consolidated rental car garage somewhere, paid for by a modest rental car tax that no one would notice. But transit is a much tougher problem to address and pay for. Uber/Lyft have made the lack of airport transit less of an issue to the out of town visitor... but if you are paying your own way from the terminal to the city, you quickly learn that taxis aren’t cheap, and the Fast bus isn’t really fast [[just faster than what was there before).

[subterranean]

I lived in Michigan most of my life but now live in Portland, OR. I only fly Delta to Detroit as it’s the only direct flight. Alaska began flying direct last year but made the route seasonal and then I believe stopped direct service altogether.

However, my parents live in Midland with a cottage around Cadillac and I’ve found the flight times and cost to Traverse City with a layover in Minneapolis to be favorable and a lot less stressful. My folks also fly out of Flint and Lansing a lot because of the convenience of getting in and out over direct flights.