Detroit Incinerator shuttering

[Meddle]

^^ How 'bout the Pointeys burn their own trash, eh?

[Bigb23]

This. The thing is literally a hot mess. While the concept is ok, it shouldn’t be anywhere near a populated area. A better choice would be to consider placing this in some rural area up north that is in need of jobs.

Let's see - build a new incinerator upwind from Canada. They send their dripping garbage trucks of trash over to us - we get the energy, they get the smell.

[MikeM]

^^ How 'bout the Pointeys burn their own trash, eh?

We used to until the EPA said no.

[hybridy]

long range bet...incinerator site becomes gilbert's soccer stadium site. you heard it here first. presuming MLS keeps poo pooing on ford field idea.

31 acres and bordered by 2 interstate highways - adjacent to midtown and proximal to eastern market

[Gistok]

It's interesting that the incinerator was built in a decaying area... until Midtown and Milwaukee Junction started becoming hot for residential... now we have new NIMBY folks moving in....

[EastsideAl]

Not soon enough to prevent thousands of people from suffering with lifelong asthma, or worse...

[O3H]

Incineration anywhere is a fickle beast, part art, part science.
Getting everything operating efficiently, peak burn,
minimal emissions 24/7 and 365 for decades is damn tough.
Sensors, operators, budgets, regulations all play a HUGE role in it.
It is not easy, won't get any easier, and no one wants it nearby.

Ask Madison Heights folks - the incinerators smokestacks still pierce sky

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...eal/398752001/

[archfan]

Here's an article describing Sweden's approach. They contend the impact of burning the trash is less than the impact of methane emitted by landfills. It would be interesting to see a science-based comparison. Plus, they don't have room for landfills, so they don't have much choice. Helsingborg's incinerator is well northwest of the city.

[Gistok]

Here's an article describing Sweden's approach. They contend the impact of burning the trash is less than the impact of methane emitted by landfills. It would be interesting to see a science-based comparison. Plus, they don't have room for landfills, so they don't have much choice. Helsingborg's incinerator is well northwest of the city.

I can agree with everything except "they don't have room for landfills"...

They have the identical population as Michigan [[10 million), but they have 3 times the acreage!

[Lowell]

Here is a great gallery of Incinerator protest photos during its construction by the great Detroit-Dearborn photographer Millard Berry, including these two I had forgotten about where Green Peace protestors scaled a tower of the Renaissance Center to unfurl this banner.

[Wesley Mouch]

I think waste to energy plants are great, they just shouldn't be built right in the middle of a populated area.

Why? Smell? or Pollution?

Pollution? I'm not an expert, but seems that there are two issues.

1) Is the burning complete, or is the remaining gas dangerous? I assume that if Europe is burning trash now, that its possible to get it down to a very acceptable level.

2) Is the smokestack doing its job? The idea of a smokestack is to both enable chimney effect, but also to get the discharge up high enough to ensure its distribution.

And this leads to:

Smell?

The stack should be keeping the smell of any discharge away from the local area. That's why Canada is concerned. They argue that they get hit with the discharge [[prevailing winds and all).

If there's smell nearby, its likely either a) The garbage itself as it arrives, which is never quite like roses, b) the nearby waste transfer station, c) the rendering plant [[is that still over there?).

So I'm not convinced that the actual trash burning is that smelly or dangerous to the nearby area.

Question? Where are these new trash burners being located?

Question #2? We were that advanced that our trash burning plants has already hit its life expectancy? Or was this plant closed for other reasons? Or are we getting ready for doing it 'like the Europeans'? [[Pardon me if the links explain any of this.)

[O3H]

If anyone gets to visit a High Tech Trash Incinerator, the first thing you'll
notice is the extreme intense high pitched, incessant whine of the turbines.
It's irritating, horrendous, and earplugs are everywhere, every entrance, dock door, etc., etc.

Think about heat, caloric value. PAPER burns hot, metal can not so much. Incinerators kill the recycling movement. They need ""stuff"" that burns hot to generate heat for steam, and ideally super-heated steam, above 212 degrees F, under high pressure. It also still smells, because rotting garbage has to be dumped "somewhere" before it goes into the hopper to burn.

Connecticut tried the garbage to energy approach and its mediocre.
https://connecticut.crains.com/artic...waste-strategy

The five plants no longer participate in the energy capacity market with its supply obligations to the regional electricity grid operator, ISO New England Inc.

[Jason]

Why? Smell? or Pollution?

Pollution? I'm not an expert, but seems that there are two issues.

1) Is the burning complete, or is the remaining gas dangerous? I assume that if Europe is burning trash now, that its possible to get it down to a very acceptable level.

I believe so. "Acceptable" air pollution is relative though, and there are concerns about the specific types of particles etc that incinerators make, but landfills also make pollution. We do have our own regulations though, and the incinerator was consistently not meeting them.

2) Is the smokestack doing its job? The idea of a smokestack is to both enable chimney effect, but also to get the discharge up high enough to ensure its distribution.

I don't know for sure, but I think smokestacks do, but not perfectly. I vaguely recall a study that showed that areas downwind of the incinerator had lower than expected health outcomes.

The stack should be keeping the smell of any discharge away from the local area. That's why Canada is concerned. They argue that they get hit with the discharge [[prevailing winds and all).

If there's smell nearby, its likely either a) The garbage itself as it arrives, which is never quite like roses, b) the nearby waste transfer station, c) the rendering plant [[is that still over there?).

So I'm not convinced that the actual trash burning is that smelly or dangerous to the nearby area.

Yeah the smell is rotting garbage. They're legally required to manage that, but they don't. And yeah I think that a lot of the pollution ends up in Windsor.

Question? Where are these new trash burners being located?

Question #2? We were that advanced that our trash burning plants has already hit its life expectancy? Or was this plant closed for other reasons? Or are we getting ready for doing it 'like the Europeans'? [[Pardon me if the links explain any of this.)

I would assume the new incinerators are located on the edges of town in places that are convenient for garbage drop off, but far enough away from densely populated areas. Some of them might be located near urban areas, to provide heat, like ours did.

The company that was operating the incinerator said that upgrading it to meet pollution requirements would be too expensive. I think part of it is that everything gets old over time and that costs money, and I think part of it is that pollution technology and requirements have advanced to the point that it might be legitimately difficult for our incinerator to keep up.


My understanding is that the topic has been studied and that when you add everything up, overall, waste to energy plants create less pollution and use less energy than landfills, so that's where my general support comes from. But they still do create pollution, and there's pros and cons.

[Detroitnerd]

Do I recall correctly that Kevyn Orr signed a contract to supply GM's Hamtramck plant with energy generated at the Detroit Incinerator? Does
the possible January, 2020 closing of Hamtramck Assembly contribute to the welcome demise of the Detroit incinerator?

Do we have a trash crisis in the US? In the past, we sold much trash to Chinese brokers. The Chinese stopped that about a year ago and then
Thailand and India banned US trash.

What are we going to do with trash? Philadelphia is starting to burn their trash in an incinerator in Chester. Is it a "clean" incinerator?

I have heard that burning trash is a major source of energy in Denmark.
Do they have modern pollution free plants to burn trash? If so, why
arn't hedge funds investing in new trash burning plants in the US to be
located in Opportunity Zones where there will be no capital gains taxes?

The facility can switch from trash burning to natural gas anytime it wants to. It has done so in the past while the burners were serviced.

[takascar]

Here is a great gallery of Incinerator protest photos during its construction by the great Detroit-Dearborn photographer Millard Berry, including these two I had forgotten about where Green Peace protestors scaled a tower of the Renaissance Center to unfurl this banner.

I was part of a group protesting it when it was about to open - we had a student group, "Concern for Responsible Technology" at WSU that did a lot of educational events and other "actions".

[wolverine]

I hope it will be soon when there’s a handle on packaging material. I like that cities are getting tough on these policies because it drives up demand and competition for biodegradable packaging and bags, which will ultimately lower the cost for businesses to purchase.

When that happens, we won’t need to worry about incineration and will cut down on landfill deposits.

I just finished a meal at a burrito place where the utensils are made of starch, the cups are out of cellulose and the napkins are recycled paper. Good to know that stuff will dissolve up after a single use. I realize this 50 cent cost was passed onto me, but good knowing I’m not mortgaging our environmental future.

Still weird visiting Michigan and they give you a free bag when you buy something.

[Jimaz]

Uncovering the Horrors of the Abandoned Detroit Incinerator

Detroit Renewable Power aka The Detroit Incinerator. It was at the center of controversy for nearly three decades. It’s been a target for activists, protestors, environmental groups, city officials, state legislators, and neighborhood residents alike. It’s been celebrated, but mostly hated....

[drjeff]

I work 1.6 miles from the incinerator and some summer days the smell is overwhelming. I can't imagine actually living in that neighborhood. Good riddance.

[Lowell]

Bye bye instinkerator.