Is Public transit Charity?

**O3H** · March-26-19, 11:09 AM

Why do so many in metro Detroit see Public Transit
as a ""thing"" we give to those without a car ?
It's the other way around, Public Transit is a necessity for all.
Great article in the Free Press today 3/26/2019
https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/...my/3269611002/

**dtowncitylover** · March-26-19, 11:29 AM

The fact that the 261 Michigan Express has outperformed itself is enough to say mass transit does in fact work when implemented and done correctly. If you built it, they will come has a factual basis.

Loosen sales tax laws that authorize regional transit authorities to allow that the choice to fund the RTA of SE Michigan. It would only be in place in the 4 counties. Unfortunately this is going to take the work of the legislature or ballot initiative to get this done.

There is no law, just a horrible brainwashed mentality, to say that SE Michigan needs to be so auto-centric. This is purely the engineering of bad policies by both Republicans and Democrats that we created what we are today. Now how are we going to turn this around?

I look forward to a post -L. Brooks Patterson region where we can actually focus on our counties being part of a region and work together to fix this.

If you are anti-transit, you are anti-economic development.

**O3H** · March-26-19, 11:54 AM

It has to be for MICHIGAN, the state economy.
Of course you'll build it where the bulk of the population exists

Wayne ~~~~~ 1,750,000
Oakland ~~~~~1,255,000
Macomb ~~~~~~ 875,000
Washtenaw ~~~~370,000
Livingston ~~~~~190,000
StClair ~~~~~~~159,000
Monroe ~~~~~~ 150,000

**Scottathew** · March-26-19, 12:28 PM

The 461\462 SMART FAST service has been getting crowded because of how much use it gets during rush hour. Each bus 461\462 bus potentially removes dozens of cars off of I-75, Woodward, or other NB\SB routes.

**mtburb** · March-26-19, 12:31 PM

Apparently, last year, the 561/563 Fast Gratiot line was SMART's second-busiest route in terms of ridership. Pretty successful if you ask me.

**EGrant** · March-26-19, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by 48307

The 461\462 SMART FAST service has been getting crowded because of how much use it gets during rush hour. Each bus 461\462 bus potentially removes dozens of cars off of I-75, Woodward, or other NB\SB routes.

No, Leon Drolet saw an empty bus once, therefore all mas transit is bad and we should invest in 15 lane highways. /s

**O3H** · March-26-19, 03:29 PM

Plan on sitting in your car, going slow, for a long time,
all over town , even on the main streets.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...rt/3275494002/

**stasu1213** · March-26-19, 05:03 PM

The Big 3 had really made Michigan a more car friendly state over the past 70 years and molded the minds of Michiganders to pooh any alternative transportation as to those who are using it are the unfortunate. I had been leaving my car home for years and had caught DDOT and SMART for more than 30 years. Also the only alternative that would force the insurance rate to go down is alternative transportation such as regional transportation. Everyone knows that there are entities controlling the elected officials across the state to throw a monkey wrench in plans that will bring good regional trasporatation to southeast Michigan and throughout the whole state. The Governor motto was "Fix the damn roads". The motto should had also been "Fix the damn mass transporation system in Michigan including metro Detroit. I think that SMART should resume weekend services into Detroit so people could enjoy going to games and events downtown as well as those who work on the weekends in Detroit. The bus stops for SMART and DDOT downtown are badly in need of rerouting to get rid of the dangerous bottlenecking on Michigan and Cass, on Griswold in front of the Buhl building, and on the side of the City County building on Larned. Love him or hate him Mayor Duggan had gotten the ball rolling on improving the bus services within the city of Detroit that had been neglecting since Coleman Young had taken office in the early 70s

**O3H** · March-26-19, 06:01 PM

We should KILL the love affair with cars and covet other industries
Public transit will revitalize the city and the nearby suburbs

**Zacha341** · March-26-19, 07:34 PM

^^^ How shall it be so killed? Guilt [[uh, nope most Detroiters don't do guilt)?

Or too expensive [[that's already a factor)?

In whatever case there'll those still driving, luxury level deluxe. Yet dictating to whom the privilege will be reserved...

...

**O3H** · March-26-19, 07:47 PM

If you don't build a massive parking structure - the message gets sent.
Leave the car home, we don't want it, we have no place for it.
It's about that simple.

Use the media, promote bike, bus, train, etc.

It's happening, and it's a FACT
https://www.businessinsider.com/citi...ree-ban-2017-8

**Zacha341** · March-26-19, 08:05 PM

Ok, I'll wait until age or the car-haters pry my hands off the steering wheel. LOL!

On the other hand, a car is a pain downtown. I take Qline or Lift/ Uber. Or the bus and hope people are sane. Headphones help to drown out crazy convos!

**SammyS** · March-26-19, 09:24 PM

If I live and work in or around downtown, car gone.....just like that.

**O3H** · March-26-19, 10:25 PM

Need a reminder where it goes :

https://www.smartbus.org/Portals/0/S...stem%20Map.pdf

Call SMART Customer Service to talk with a representative.
[[866) 962-5515

https://www.smartbus.org/Fares

**EGrant** · March-27-19, 06:37 AM

It will take 2-3 generations before this area adopts mass transit as anything other than a fun Disneyland ride. I don't think the most ardent transit advocates realize how ingrained car culture is in this region. I'd love to snap my fingers and see comprehensive BRT/light rail/commuter rail lines carrying people all over the region, but it just isn't going to happen overnight. You can't force a demand that isn't there.

Banning parking garages means either those developments will never get built, or people will avoid them. I wish it wasn't the case, but we're talking about an area with multiple weekends where we just drive up and down Woodward and Gratiot for no reason other than to just drive. We're obsessed with cars and the [[valid) freedom that comes with cars, damn all the negatives [[cost, maintenance, congestion, pollution, accidents, etc.)

We can make improvements to our pathetic system, and hope that over time, dense urban areas become more attractive and autos become less popular, but it's going to take a while.

And I agree, mass transit should be looked at in the same light as police, fire and roads; they aren't here to make money, they are here to improve the region as a whole. We just need to do it in a sensible manner, piece by piece.

**Honky Tonk** · March-27-19, 07:08 AM

Started reading this thread while having coffee this morning. Passed 6 buses on the way to work, a 17 mile one way trip, 2 SMART, 2 DDOT, 2 FAST. Both DDOT's were empty, one going East, one going West. One FAST was empty, going East, one FAST had 8 people on it going West. One SMART going West was empty, one SMART had 6 people on it going East. What does it cost to buy each bus? What does it cost to run each bus, fuel, maintenance, driver? How much is it to ride a bus one way? Where I live, I can observe buses all day, if I want, and I see this scenario repeated daily. Today, when I leave work, on my way home, I'll pick up groceries @ an affordable grocery store, and pick up hardware and garden supplies for a rehab I'm doing. One trip. So, to answer the original question, yes, it is charity.

**Honky Tonk** · March-27-19, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Ok, I'll wait until age or the car-haters pry my hands off the steering wheel. LOL!

On the other hand, a car is a pain downtown. I take Qline or Lift/ Uber. Or the bus and hope people are sane. Headphones help to drown out crazy convos!

I find myself having less and less need to go Downtown or Midtown for anything. I don't have a need to piss my money away on "craft" anything.

**Honky Tonk** · March-27-19, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by O3H

We should KILL the love affair with cars and covet other industries
Public transit will revitalize the city and the nearby suburbs

Strong words. Sounds like someone had a problem erecting their pup tent under the bedspread last night.

**JonWylie** · March-27-19, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Started reading this thread while having coffee this morning. Passed 6 buses on the way to work, a 17 mile one way trip, 2 SMART, 2 DDOT, 2 FAST. Both DDOT's were empty, one going East, one going West. One FAST was empty, going East, one FAST had 8 people on it going West. One SMART going West was empty, one SMART had 6 people on it going East. What does it cost to buy each bus? What does it cost to run each bus, fuel, maintenance, driver? How much is it to ride a bus one way? Where I live, I can observe buses all day, if I want, and I see this scenario repeated daily. Today, when I leave work, on my way home, I'll pick up groceries @ an affordable grocery store, and pick up hardware and garden supplies for a rehab I'm doing. One trip. So, to answer the original question, yes, it is charity.

Nice story. Every time a road is empty then it's charity too. Every time a firefighter is at the station sleeping it's charity too. See how stupid that is?

**dtowncitylover** · March-27-19, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Started reading this thread while having coffee this morning. Passed 6 buses on the way to work, a 17 mile one way trip, 2 SMART, 2 DDOT, 2 FAST. Both DDOT's were empty, one going East, one going West. One FAST was empty, going East, one FAST had 8 people on it going West. One SMART going West was empty, one SMART had 6 people on it going East. What does it cost to buy each bus? What does it cost to run each bus, fuel, maintenance, driver? How much is it to ride a bus one way? Where I live, I can observe buses all day, if I want, and I see this scenario repeated daily. Today, when I leave work, on my way home, I'll pick up groceries @ an affordable grocery store, and pick up hardware and garden supplies for a rehab I'm doing. One trip. So, to answer the original question, yes, it is charity.

I'll take "Things That Never Happened" for 500, Alex.

I highly doubt you had the time and wherewithal to count everybody on these buses or else you're seriously risking a car accident. None of those buses were truly empty.

As I turned left into a Michigan left today and looked right to view oncoming traffic. There was none. On Woodward. At 9 in the morning. What's supposedly is rush hour was nothing to be seen. I guess we can close down Woodward then during that time.

**Honky Tonk** · March-27-19, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

I'll take "Things That Never Happened" for 500, Alex.

I highly doubt you had the time and wherewithal to count everybody on these buses or else you're seriously risking a car accident. None of those buses were truly empty.

As I turned left into a Michigan left today and looked right to view oncoming traffic. There was none. On Woodward. At 9 in the morning. What's supposedly is rush hour was nothing to be seen. I guess we can close down Woodward then during that time.

That's the problem with being confined to one area and not getting out, your viewpoint narrows.

**dtowncitylover** · March-27-19, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

That's the problem with being confined to one area and not getting out, your viewpoint narrows.

Well I take the bus more often than you, so not sure I'm the one with the problem. [[In fact you're much more anti-transit, than I am anti-car.)

Here's some resources to treat your empty bus syndrome:

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2013/08/...rve-a-purpose/

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/...ou-might-think

https://humantransit.org/2012/11/eri...n-a-trans.html

**Honky Tonk** · March-27-19, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

Well I take the bus more often than you, so not sure I'm the one with the problem. [[In fact you're much more anti-transit, than I am anti-car.)

Here's some resources to treat your empty bus syndrome:

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2013/08/...rve-a-purpose/

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/...ou-might-think

https://humantransit.org/2012/11/eri...n-a-trans.html

I don't have an empty bus syndrome, or a "mommy gimme" syndrome. I'm out and about seven days a week, know what I see with my own eyes, and am capable of drawing my own conclusions. I don't need someone with an agenda telling me what i should think and do. Thanx anyway.

**dtowncitylover** · March-27-19, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I don't have an empty bus syndrome, or a "mommy gimme" syndrome. I'm out and about seven days a week, know what I see with my own eyes, and am capable of drawing my own conclusions. I don't need someone with an agenda telling me what i should think and do. Thanx anyway.

Ok but when you're wrong, you're wrong. And obviously, you're wrong. There literally is no agenda except that this region needs a comprehensive mass transit system to enhance its transportation network or we will risk continued stagnation and fade into irrelevancy in getting further investment, be it economic or population.

**Honky Tonk** · March-27-19, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

Ok but when you're wrong, you're wrong. And obviously, you're wrong. There literally is no agenda except that this region needs a comprehensive mass transit system to enhance its transportation network or we will risk continued stagnation and fade into irrelevancy in getting further investment, be it economic or population.

No, I'm not. 6 buses, 3 different agencies, in one spot, on one 17 mile route, with a total of 14 riders. I see this scenario daily, not just this one time. There it is, the transit system is already there, in place, tax money has been and continues to be shelled out for it, and few are using it. The rest is rhetoric.