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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor View Post
    The United States is not in a legal military conflict with Iran!

    So its a perfect example. At no point has the U.S. President declared such a war.

    Therefore there was no legal basis, even under American law, for the assassination. Period.
    Presidents can't constitutionally declare war. Only Congress can. You are correct about that. That goes for Korea, Vietnam, Bombing Serbia, Libya, Iraq, Syria among other un-declared conflicts. However, to the American soldiers being shot at and mined, they are wars. We agree, I think, that they should come home from Iraq ASAP. We disagree on the safety of U.S. troops as long as they are stuck there. You would rather limit the Commander in Chief's ability to defend American troops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor View Post
    (quote)Also, General Soleimeni was not an "immigrant". He was an Iranian combatant with a long history of killing Americans in Iraq helping Hezbollah do so. (quote)

    General Soleimeni has never personally killed a single American. His proxies doubtless have; but US soliders and proxies have killed far more people around the world; is that justification in your mind for any third-party country to assassinate U.S. Generals? I don't support that. I don't imagine you do. No double standards allowed!
    That's almost like saying that Goering "never personally killed a single American". If General Soleimeni was sent to Iraq to kill Americans, he was put in jeopardy by his own government that same way American PFCs were put in jeopardy by our government. General Soleimeni doesn't get a free pass to help kill Americans except from you guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor View Post
    The U.S. military did not just 'find itself' anywhere. Its there on purpose, where it has no business.
    Agreed, but unlike you and Trudeau. I'm not going to tie our soldiers hands while they are being shot at.

    [QUOTE=Canadian Visitor;585363]Good try, Iran phoned ahead and explicitly stated its targets and attack times 2 full hours ahead. That's why there were no American deaths.

    Iran may have "phoned" Iraq 2 hours before attacking U.S. airbases but according to one interviewed soldier, he was evacuated from a bombed barracks a few minutes before it was destroyed. Trump notably held his return fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor View Post
    For the last time, there is NO war. Only illegal military action.
    Tell that to American soldiers that are being targeted with roadside bombs and Iranian missiles. You continue to confuse declared wars with proxy warfare when convenient.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor View Post
    HE was no immediate threat. By that logic Iran can attack Trump or any US general based in Washington. Plenty of folks in DC have tried to cause Iran trouble over the years and indeed succeeded quite a bit.

    I don't support that leap of logic. Not for Iran, not for the U.S. American soldiers are welcome to fire on anyone firing a gun at them or a missile, not at someone having a chat.
    Yes, Iran and its proxies can strike American generals in Iraq just as it targets other u.S. military personnel. Iran, meanwhile, is targeting American military personnel through Hezbollah. American soldiers were not allowed to strike back at missile launch sites in Iran.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor View Post
    You mean I'm on the side of virtually every country on earth*, the majority of the world's people, and the law.
    And I am siding with the plight of U.S. Troops even if you side with Islamists, Communists, Russians, Europeans who prefer that the U.S. protect its oil supply, and Trudeau believing that anyone but Iran was responsible for shooting two rockets into a Ukrainian plane. I am unaware of any U.S. law that does not allow the Commander in Chief to take out hostile military personnel in combat zones who are involved with killing Americans. Maybe Democrats will pass something to that end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor View Post
    The U.S. took action which put Canadian lives in harms way. as Iran must bare responsibility for its role, so must those in the United States that set the wheels in motion.
    I already covered that. Trudeau's quote was based on two ifs and excluded the possibility of other ifs.

    Iran set wheels in motion by killing an American contractor and by attacking our Embassy. Enough was enough. You can hope that Americans will elect someone more likely to send Iran more plane load of money (1.)(2.)instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor View Post
    If Mr. Trump actually cares about U.S. soliders let him pull them all back, from everywhere outside the United States.

    They'll be safe at home; provided, of course, you stop training Saudi Terrorists at US military bases!
    I agree with your last two sentences. Europe can pick up where we left off to protect its oil supply if it chooses to do so. My guess though is that should Trump remove our mid-east troops, there will be howls from *"virtually every country on earth" and the Democratic Party as there was when Trump pulled back troops from the Turkish border before Turkey invaded Syria.

  2. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor View Post
    So its a perfect example. At no point has the U.S. President declared such a war.
    Technically true, however there is a blanket use of force authorization covering Iraq. Soleimani was in Iraq at the time (going to a wedding?!?)

    imagine you do. No double standards allowed!



    The U.S. military did not just 'find itself' anywhere. Its there on purpose, where it has no business.

    The U.S. took action which put Canadian lives in harms way. as Iran must bare responsibility for its role, so must those in the United States that set the wheels in motion.
    Now *that's* quite a logical leap. You could argue if Iran hadn't ordered the assault on the American embassy, the US probably wouldn't have hit Soulimani. It's quite a jump to go from there to the US being responsible for Iran shooting down a passenger airplane under control of it's own air traffic control, in a known domestic flight path, near one of it's own airports.

    Also, keep in mind that attacking the US embassy, in political terms, is exactly the same as attacking the US itself. You could argue the legalities of the response, but this is inexcusable behavior.

    Just take a step back and look at the big picture for a moment. Iran backs a paramilitary group that attacks an embassy. One of it's top generals is killed in Iraq. It fires a bunch of missiles at Iraq in retaliation and ends up killing a few Iraqis and no US personnel. During the funeral of the general, 50 people die in a stampede. Then they shoot down a passenger plane taking off from one of their own airports.

    And you think this all makes the US look bad? I'm no fan of US foreign policy, and agree we should pull out of the middle east as much as is possible, but holy cow there is no way Iran is even remotely in the right in this case.

  3. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBMcB View Post
    Now *that's* quite a logical leap. You could argue if Iran hadn't ordered the assault on the American embassy, the US probably wouldn't have hit Soulimani. It's quite a jump to go from there to the US being responsible for Iran shooting down a passenger airplane under control of it's own air traffic control, in a known domestic flight path, near one of it's own airports.

    Also, keep in mind that attacking the US embassy, in political terms, is exactly the same as attacking the US itself. You could argue the legalities of the response, but this is inexcusable behavior.

    Just take a step back and look at the big picture for a moment. Iran backs a paramilitary group that attacks an embassy. One of it's top generals is killed in Iraq. It fires a bunch of missiles at Iraq in retaliation and ends up killing a few Iraqis and no US personnel. During the funeral of the general, 50 people die in a stampede. Then they shoot down a passenger plane taking off from one of their own airports.

    And you think this all makes the US look bad? I'm no fan of US foreign policy, and agree we should pull out of the middle east as much as is possible, but holy cow there is no way Iran is even remotely in the right in this case.
    At no point did I in any way whatsoever suggest 'Iran is in the right'.

    Right in that quote you took of mine, I said "as Iran must bare responsibility for its role"

    That doesn't sound at all like 'Iran is in the right', because its not.

    That Iran is in the wrong, very clearly, does not, however relieve the United States government of its responsibility in committing an illegal act, a murder, which they knew or ought to have known would result in some form of calamity and loss of life.

    I don't expect they knew it would be a passenger liner being shot down by Iran.

    But this hardly the first such instance, the U.S. having been responsible for the exact same misdeed in the past.

    Had the United States government abided by international law, however, that aircraft would be in tact as would the many passengers lives.

    That doesn't mean the U.S. is directly responsible, or intentionally so, nor does it let Iran off the hook in any way.

    But really, with great respect your country needs to s#$t or get off the pot.

    If the U.S. wants to rule the middle east, then all-in, go conquer it and rebuild their schools, their societies and stay for 4 generations. You get the costs and the benefits.

    OR get out and stay out. This messing about is harmful to everyone.

  4. #29

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    ^ had the passengers never boarded that flight
    had the passengers never been born
    had the plane never been built
    had Iran never existed
    had missiles never been developed
    had the passengers never migrated to Canada they would have never been in that flight visiting relatives for the holidays.

    You are just parroting your leader that told Iran,that’s okay,just send us some cash and we can blame it on the US.

    If Canada wants to rule the Middle East then go all in and conquer it and rebuild their schools,maybe for the first time in thier history and yours even offer them a National school lunch program.

    You guys are as deep in the crap over there as we are so how do you come off with it is America’s fault?

    You act like Canada has zero blood on their hands and spend their days riding unicorns and acting like they are the poster child for humanity.

    You are not,sorry to burst your bubble but just because your government has a good propaganda machine that hides the truth from their people,it does not resolve you from bearing your burdens of actions.

    You guys sell weapons to terrorists and then act all righteous when terrorists strike back at you,can’t figure it out,eh?

    You know what the difference is between the United States and Canada ?

    When we sell weapons to terrorists and they use them against us,they learn really quick that we have tools in the box that they do not even see coming.

    So they know better.

    Your atonement is with your government and Iran,if thier issue is with us then they will let us know,they had an issue with your citizens on that plane and they let you know,what and how you wish to deal with it is on Canada and Canada only,deal with it without crying about United States actions that have zero to do with that situation.

    Your leader needs to grow a set with that wako in Iran,he is a dictatorship that gives zero shits about a plane load of traitors in his eyes,and the first thing you do is tell him,bad boy,let’s start the money negotiations.

    Now in the future when they need attention,pop goes another Canadian citizen.

    You guys should have spanked them that very night,we would have had your backs,now they know the price Canada puts on its citizens life’s.

    In 2016 there were forces from 16 different countries in the ground fighting ISIL,it is not just a US action.

    Every one of those countries are on Iran’s target list of enemies but yet they shoot a airliner out of the sky filled with Canadians,wonder why?
    Last edited by Richard; January-22-20 at 07:36 PM.

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