Whitmer’s Road Fix

[softailrider]

Good god, from what I’ve read I’m not loving it. Forty five cents a gallon seems pretty heavy duty. If I’m on fumes I can sometimes squeeze 18 plus gallons in my Accord, that’s another eight dollars a tankful. I hope that there is accountability for this money collected and spent., but I’m not holding my hopes up real high.

[Atticus]

Good god, from what I’ve read I’m not loving it. Forty five cents a gallon seems pretty heavy duty. If I’m on fumes I can sometimes squeeze 18 plus gallons in my Accord, that’s another eight dollars a tankful. I hope that there is accountability for this money collected and spent., but I’m not holding my hopes up real high.

Much like the person who racks up years of credit card debt, and who then sits down with a financial planner to finally get their budget in order... it can be a real sticker shock.

We have gotten this far paying among the lowest per capita in the nation towards transportation, and the reward is our crumbling infrastructure that scares away new jobs and investment. Not to piss in anyone’s Cheerios, but it is either pay big to get it fixed... or not, and watch the state crumble away further.

[Bigdd]

Even if she manages to get the money somehow,... the roads won't be fixed during her tenure. When she leaves office,.. the roads WILL NOT be fixed.

If someone gave us $50 billion today, it would still take 20-30 years to play catch up. There are still only so many contractors that can do big road projects, and they already have a lot of work lined up. And you can only close down so many major roads and freeways at a time without crippling the economy.


Properly directing the tax revenues [[school stuff to schools, gas taxes to roads etc) requires a vote of the people,.. and the voters rejected the best plan we've seen to date some 4-5 years ago. After that, Gov Snyder managed to scrounge a couple billion to start fixing the roads,.. but even that work will take many years to actually get done.

So Gov Whitmer will get credit for Snyder's meager accomplishment,.. and if Gov Whitmer gets more somehow,.. the next gov or two will in turn get the credit for that.

In the meantime,.. best to drive cars with big balloon tires.

[O3H]

Did the companies who actually create the cars get tax breaks
-- and the actual folks who drive them get higher taxes ?

Seems a bit backward and an ass hat tactic in my eyes.

Get the companies to pay their share of TAXES
and quit beating up on the people that live in the state.

The U.S. federal corporate tax rate is 35%,
Actual effective tax rate vary significantly.

Ford tax rate of just under 15% for the 2011-2015 period.
General Motors averaging a rate of roughly 9.5% over that period.

$6 billion in tax credits Michigan owes 50 companies
-- over the next decade -- is an unfunded liability

The MEDC has estimated Michigan
could owe companies $9.38 billion in tax credits through 2031

In the meantime all 10 million residents have to pay -- more taxes

[Wesley Mouch]

Did the companies who actually create the cars get tax breaks
-- and the actual folks who drive them get higher taxes ?

Seems a bit backward and an ass hat tactic in my eyes.

Whether a company pays the taxes, or an individual pays the taxes, the result is the same. The tax is paid by consumers in the end.

Get the companies to pay their share of TAXES
and quit beating up on the people that live in the state.

The U.S. federal corporate tax rate is 35%,
Actual effective tax rate vary significantly.

Ford tax rate of just under 15% for the 2011-2015 period.
General Motors averaging a rate of roughly 9.5% over that period.

$6 billion in tax credits Michigan owes 50 companies
-- over the next decade -- is an unfunded liability

The MEDC has estimated Michigan
could owe companies $9.38 billion in tax credits through 2031

In the meantime all 10 million residents have to pay -- more taxes

The general effective international rate on corporate taxes is roughly 10-15%, as I understand it. 35% was paid by NOBODY. It was like those high rates AOC likes to quote from the 1950s. NOBODY paid those rates.

Fortunately, Trump's tax reform has cleaned this up. And the actual tax rate dropped. Trump 2020 is you want more of this. AOC 2020 if you want a 45 DOLLAR per gallon gas tax increase. [[Meanwhile, AOC uses Uber to get to the subway stop a few blocks away... see NYPost if you want to see how the goddess of the new left actually flies around the country rather than use the Acela.)

But seriously folks, is that 45c/gal real? I've not been following this. Sounds more like the level of carbon tax than road repair. Our current state road tax per gallon is about 18c.... so this is more than tripling the tax? Is this right? [[That's from Michigan.gov: https://www.michigan.gov/documents/m...6_473561_7.pdf).

WXYZ says the tax is 26c. So 45 is about double.

No government can double spending efficiently. There's more here going on than road tax. I'll bet some of this cash will find its way elsewhere. Now who does Gretchen need to pay off? I'll place my bet on Pension obligations.

[Embee]

It's all a matter of perspective. 45 cents per gallon sounds pretty good compared to the gas tax in Ontario [[25 cents per litre....which works out to 95 cents per gallon). Look at the difference in the roads between those two jurisdictions. It's worth it.

[Meddle]

Will it really accomplish anything without de-Matty-fying the roads?

[middetres]

We should move to taxing per mile driven, not gas. Hopefully we move in that direction. As we move to increased electrification, this will cover costs from all drivers.

.03/mile driven to replace gas tax [[$450 for 15,000 miles driven)
.05/pound for annual vehicle registration [[$200 on a 4,000lb vehicle)

Drop the sales tax on gas purchases and replace that money with expanding the 6% sales tax to cover services, in effect becoming a GST.

Or raise the sales tax to 8% and create one or two week-long tax holidays in late August and/or early January.

Use the increased revenue on education and restoring revenue-sharing with cities.

[Danny]

A proposed 45 cent gas tax will help fix the d____ roads. That's fine by me.

[Atticus]

As pro-business as Snyder was, the truth is the Republicans wanted the roads fixed too. Bad roads are bad for business. And yet, despite wanting the road fix, 8 years of a Republican Legislature and Republican Governor couldn’t get them fixed... because doing so would require a significant raise of taxes.

You can throw out all the tin-foil hat theories you want about how the roads are bad because of bad construction practices, or overweight trucks, or corruption, or insert theories here..., but the honest answer is if the road issue could have been addressed by any of these and not raising taxes, Snyder and the GOP would have done it.

That is where we are folks. And now the tax increase is especially high because, like a bad credit card bill, we as a state kept kicking the can and never fully paid it. I don’t like the 45-cent hike either.... but also know that it is necessary.

[Meddle]

.05/pound for annual vehicle registration [[$200 on a 4,000lb vehicle)

You want to punish people just for having a vehicle even if they don't drive it? I have two, neither of which gets driven over 2,000 miles a year. You would be increasing my vehicle registration by something close to ten times even if I never started either car.

You'd probably also kill sales of trucks and SUVs. And since that's about all US carmakers still produce, you'd be driving sales to other brands. More plant closing and layoffs is what you want?


Seems like accountability would be more appropriate. Make sure road dollars are spent on roads and not transferred for other uses.

[sirrealone]

Bad roads are bad for business.

This is precisely what I think people truly don't understand when they complain about having to pay more in any way. Look at the thread for the Amazon HQ2, it's over 50 pages, many of which were devoted to the idea that this area had a shot.

Come on. This region never had a prayer. While Amazon probably wasn't going to come here, the fact is that our region has bad roads and bad schools. As much as I, as well as anyone, don't want to pay more taxes, I'm impressed that Gov. Whitmer is making these things her two top priorities.

Companies will come here if they feel it's going to improve their bottom line. If their execs get off the plane, and the first thing they experience are crumbling roads, and they look at the reports that show our educational numbers declining, they're not going to bring their workers here. Why? Because they know that their workers will likely decline to come along or will leave.

Roads and schools matter. Instead of trying to bribe companies to come here with stupid tax incentives, just fix these two things, and they might start coming anyways. And, stop saying that roads and education can be fixed just by making changes within our current funding. That is pie-in the sky. If this were really true, don't you think someone would have figured out ways to do that by now?

[expatriate]

I was in Southern California last month where gas was $3.38 per gallon so I think it is still a bargain here. Fuel use tax is the most equitable way to pay for road repairs as it focuses on the greatest users.

[jackie5275]

The 45 cents is to be phased in over a time. It's not a full force hit all at once which makes it a little more digestible for me. I don't care for it, but I don't care for driving on jacked up roads that damage my vehicle either. However, I would like our federal Congressional reps to try to get more road funding out of Washington as well.

[Oddz313]

As pro-business as Snyder was, the truth is the Republicans wanted the roads fixed too. Bad roads are bad for business. And yet, despite wanting the road fix, 8 years of a Republican Legislature and Republican Governor couldn’t get them fixed... because doing so would require a significant raise of taxes.

You can throw out all the tin-foil hat theories you want about how the roads are bad because of bad construction practices, or overweight trucks, or corruption, or insert theories here..., but the honest answer is if the road issue could have been addressed by any of these and not raising taxes, Snyder and the GOP would have done it.

That is where we are folks. And now the tax increase is especially high because, like a bad credit card bill, we as a state kept kicking the can and never fully paid it. I don’t like the 45-cent hike either.... but also know that it is necessary.

They held a vote on the roads and it got voted down a couple years ago. Really you have to diversify how we are going to come up with more money for roads.

[Burnsie]

Some people here and many elsewhere seem to think that Whitmer is going to ram this down our throats single handedly. Learn your damned civics class. Any fuel tax first has to be passed by both Republican majority legislature chambers, then signed by the Whitmer. So, the Republicans would have equal responsibility for it. And any tax this reactionary legislature passes will be first watered down and have some more business tax cuts thrown in.

[Honky Tonk]

So, Gretchen has dismissed the professional make-up artist, removed her blue dress, and says "How do you like me now?" Yet another tax increase for MI drivers. I'd be more receptive, except, as I've posted previously, gas tax goes into MI's General Fund, and gets used for things other than actually repairing the roads. This is another reason why MI will never have real public transportation, just 3 sets of expensive empty buses running around in circles @ $1.75 a ride, or "pay to ride" Uber and Lyft. [[which by the way use gasoline) Gas tax is MI's cash cow, it's how the State generates revenue. Leave the roads in disrepair, people buy larger, more gas guzzling vehicles, = more revenue. Here's a breakdown of where your money goes. By now every kid in MI should be a rocket scientist.

https://www.michfb.com/MI/Farm-News-...-moneys-going/

[EGrant]

This would put Michigan's gas tax at a total of $0.73/gallon, the highest in the country. Knowing Ontario is paying 20 cents more doesn't do much for me.

I haven't read anything official about whether or not this will go in the general fund, but if so, this has the makings of a disaster.

I fear we're never going to solve this problem; we've let our roads crumble so much that we'll never approve the money needed to fix AND maintain them. This state will just play pothole whack-a-mole until we're all using teleportation technology.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

The bad roads are a big reason Trucks and SUV's are so big here. They can endure the punishment better, in most cases.

[EGrant]

The bad roads are a big reason Trucks and SUV's are so big here. They can endure the punishment better, in most cases.

A vicious cycle.

[DetBill]

Everyone seems to complain, however Ohio, and the Republican governor DeWine is presently proposing a gas tax increase also, although not as large as Michigan’s, however, their roads are in much better shape as they have been increasing the tax all along a lot more than Michigan and they have been a much better custodian of the road system as a result.So I guess it’s time to bite the bullet, or turn the state road system into a total disaster which will kill the economy and the visitors bureau as well. People will have little desire to even move to the state or visit it [[ tourism is huge for Michigan ) if they see how poor the road system is and the damage to their cars, this effects our property values also. One thing I never understand, is why they don’t increase the sales tax to 7% from 6% instead. I know this has been suggested and voted down however a sales tax is not only incurred by the residence but also by every person visiting and traveling through the state. Ohio and Illinois already have higher sales tax than we do, and the effect would spread out the pain even more evenly then those who are consuming gas. One middle of the road compromise would be to raise the gas tax perhaps by 15% and the sales tax by 1/2 %, that way it would be spread out even more evenly and people would not notice the price differences as much.

[Smirnoff]

Some prior tax payer increases & promises by Gov't to fix the roads: Sales tax increase [[4-to-6 cents), multiple gas-gallon increases, license plate increases, the "Lotto", now another tax increase gimmick.....

[Scottathew]

I'm not necessarily against it. People who buy gas are generally the people that use roads. So raising the gas tax impacts people who drive on our roads the most.

Bus riders will probably not be impacted, which is good, because public transit is something we want to incentivize.

Electric cars get a free pass, but that's fine for now, as that's something I want to incentivize. Once we make our electricity production cleaner these cars will be even better for the environment.

Bottom line is, we've neglected to fund our roads. It's time to fix it.

[Meddle]

Gas Taxes [[unlike registration fees) are like Sales Taxes, they get everybody, no matter which state or country they call home.

But, I'll say it again, they MUST be strictly allocated to roads only. There must be an iron clad prohibition against other uses.

[Bham1982]

I think it's too high [[and may be a bargaining tactic). But I'm fine with an increase.