Getting to the AirPort

**O3H** · February-20-19, 12:48 PM

Taking a BUS to the airport used be an ordeal.
FAST stands for “Frequent Affordable Safe Transit.”
The Michigan bus, Route 261, runs from downtown Detroit
to the airport in a little more than an hour.

https://wdet.org/posts/2019/02/18/87851-detroit-bus-to-airport-more-than-one-year-old/

**EGrant** · February-20-19, 03:35 PM

"SMART already had local buses that served the Michigan Avenue corridor. Cramer says he knew that adding the FAST service there would decrease ridership on some of the existing routes. So, he says, in determining success, officials decided to look at the net impact on the corridor. They had hoped to see an overall increase in ridership of at least 10 percent. What they found was an increase of nearly 40 percent."

**Scottathew** · February-20-19, 03:39 PM

I use the FAST Woodward line, Route 461 to get to work. The ridership increase in the last year has been huge! They used me in one of the commercials, so that probably has a lot to do with it

**mtburb** · February-20-19, 08:29 PM

I took the Fast Woodward line once back in August to get to the zoo. Lot of riders both ways and we stopped at virtually every en-route station.

**O3H** · February-20-19, 09:40 PM

So you can get to the airport, even without a car, taking the bus

**dtowncitylover** · February-21-19, 12:40 PM

You mean public transportation CAN work in the Detroit area?!?!?!

How will Leon Drolet sleep tonight???

**Zacha341** · February-21-19, 01:55 PM

And there's also Lyft. Used it twice to get to and from the airport. Cheaper than taxi rates!

**Bham1982** · February-21-19, 02:57 PM

Is this really a big issue in an age of Uber/Lyft?

**dtowncitylover** · February-21-19, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Is this really a big issue in an age of Uber/Lyft?

It is when some of us can't afford $15-60 airport rides.

And before you say, "IT DOESN'T COST $60 FOR AN LYFT TO THE AIRPORT!!!" It did last week when I transferred to the 261 in the morning and looked, for shits and giggles, how much it would be from downtown to the airport. Yeah, I got a whole lot of giggles out of that price.

Like how can it be explained that some people can't afford rideshares and/or don't have the technology/resources/money to do it?

If I wanted to be in a car, I would've driven.

**hybridy** · February-21-19, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

It is when some of us can't afford $15-60 airport rides.

i have used uber several times traveling for business. work happily reimburses me the cost versus paying for my mileage and $24/day parking costs if i were to drive myself.

only downside is smelly + chatty drivers and smelly cars which i've had before #firstworldproblems

**Wesley Mouch** · February-21-19, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

You mean public transportation CAN work in the Detroit area?!?!?!

Alleluia! We're just a few decades late to the party of decent cities, but great that we've arrived. When I travel for work, I usually take transit into town. Vienna, Seattle, Atlanta, Chicago all come to mind as towns that have great airport transit. Yea, we've got it too!

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

How will Leon Drolet sleep tonight???

[/quote]
There's not only one right solution to a problem. Drolet has his opinions, which many of his voters share. Uber/Lyft has done just as much or more for airport transit as our monopoly gov't systems.

Related, what cities remain in the past? Who doesn't have good airport transit? Who doesn't allow ride share to their airports?

**dtowncitylover** · February-21-19, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by hybridy

i have used uber several times traveling for business. work happily reimburses me the cost versus paying for my mileage and $24/day parking costs if i were to drive myself.

only downside is smelly + chatty drivers and smelly cars which i've had before #firstworldproblems

Cool dude. I spent $2.25.

**dtowncitylover** · February-21-19, 03:48 PM

I didn't say we arrived. I said it can work. And looking at the numbers, it does. The still used cliche by Leon Drolet and his ilk of "no one takes the bus" or "there's nobody on the bus" simply isn't true.

I have no problem with Uber/Lyft as a business, but to say we don't need public transit because we have U/L also isn't true. We need them all. Part of a major city's image is based on how well one can get about the city. Tourists and visitors shouldn't have to shell out $15+ bucks every time they want to explore anywhere beyond downtown or getting back to the airport. Which is another reason why I'm happy for SMART and DDOT's upcoming streamlining of fares and passes.

I look forward to Metro Airport admins also reading this article and hopefully promoting the service more at the airport.

**Zacha341** · February-21-19, 04:01 PM

Yeah the inconsistent service [[over-chatty drivers, too fast driving or smelly cars) of uber and lyft is a pain. I prefer lyft.

Wish you could request the better drivers but no, it's luck of the draw. I had someone pick me up in a car smelling of weed. Great. But a very skilled, nice driver so I tipped him. Hah.

Originally Posted by hybridy

i have used uber several times traveling for business. work happily reimburses me the cost versus paying for my mileage and $24/day parking costs if i were to drive myself.

only downside is smelly + chatty drivers and smelly cars which i've had before #firstworldproblems

**Zacha341** · February-21-19, 04:04 PM

Agreed, the more options the better for transpo -- yes! Then everyone can happily choose per their desire, income, need etc.

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

...I have no problem with Uber/Lyft as a business, but to say we don't need public transit because we have U/L also isn't true. We need them all. Part of a major city's image is based on how well one can get about the city.

**RaumVogel** · February-21-19, 04:14 PM

I'm originally from Taylor.Try to use their web site and see how non existent service is in that suburb. https://www.smartbus.org/Services/Se...mmunity/Taylor

**Atticus** · February-21-19, 04:42 PM

If this region ever wants public “rail” transit again, downtown to the airport is the route where it has to start. Not Royal Oak to New Center, or AA to New Center... but DTW to downtown.

And that is because rich and middle income people would use actually it. Not saying it is socially just, but if only lower income groups and transit-lovers would use it... the politicos will never really get on board.

**Bham1982** · February-21-19, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Atticus

If this region ever wants public “rail” transit again, downtown to the airport is the route where it has to start. Not Royal Oak to New Center, or AA to New Center... but DTW to downtown.

And that is because rich and middle income people would use actually it. Not saying it is socially just, but if only lower income groups and transit-lovers would use it... the politicos will never really get on board.

None of this makes sense. Downtown-to-airport rail lines aren't typically heavily used, even in centralized, transit-oriented metros.

Detroit Metro is a hub airport, meaning most passengers never leave the terminal. It isn't generating that much traffic. Downtown is a relatively small piece of the regional puzzle, and isn't gonna have much airport demand.

And rich and middle income wouldn't use it. They would drive or Uber/Lyft like [[almost) everyone else. They don't even use airport lines in, say, Paris, why would they use them in Detroit?

And while I think regional rail is stupid, if you're gonna do it, you would obviously do it up Woodward first. Michigan Ave. isn't nearly as important and would generate less traffic.

**ABetterDetroit** · February-21-19, 08:05 PM

Nobody is dumb enough to think that a downtown that literally has been brought back from the dead with massive property tax abatements that are still being given out is going to start pushing a proven losing idea like a property tax mileage increase to connect it to the airport with rail. Right?

It would be providing the opposition everything they would need to kill it as soon as it the ballot.

**dtowncitylover** · February-21-19, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

And rich and middle income wouldn't use it. They would drive or Uber/Lyft like [[almost) everyone else. They don't even use airport lines in, say, Paris, why would they use them in Detroit?

So now you're claiming to know the demographics of the RER line in Paris?

Bham, somebody needs to finally say it. You're full of utter shit.

**softailrider** · February-21-19, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by hybridy

i have used uber several times traveling for business. work happily reimburses me the cost versus paying for my mileage and $24/day parking costs if i were to drive myself.

only downside is smelly + chatty drivers and smelly cars which i've had before #firstworldproblems

I park at the airport for 10.00 a day. I’ve never paid 24.00.

**dtowncitylover** · February-21-19, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Nobody is dumb enough to think that a downtown that literally has been brought back from the dead with massive property tax abatements that are still being handed out is going to start pushing a proven losing idea like a property tax mileage increase to connect it to the airport with rail. Right?

It would be providing the opposition everything they would need to kill it as soon as it the ballot.

Considering the 2016 RTA plan had Downtown-Ann Arbor rail with a station to connect with an airport shuttle that was only voted down within 1%, I don't think trains are the problem. It's already been discussed the high degree of bus-phobia here. In fact, I think most suburbanites prefer to spend money on regional rail rather than anything to do with buses.

I don't really care the flack I'm gonna get for this but the level of stupidity some people have about transit on DYes is staggering. How is it so fucking hard to convince people that our public transit, while not the silver bullet when hopefully funded right, is a major reason why this region sucks balls. That and our continued provincialism, shown in shit threads like this.

A 40% increase on a SMART route along a route like Michigan that now connects to airport is not nothing. It's a shining example of how transit can and does work here and the fact if we offer choices people do take them. Now we need better roads and greater investment.

**O3H** · February-21-19, 09:24 PM

I posted to see what shakes out of the woodwork.

The harsh reality of truth really rears its ugly head
- transportation of people to and fro - is a big problem

**Atticus** · February-21-19, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

None of this makes sense. Downtown-to-airport rail lines aren't typically heavily used, even in centralized, transit-oriented metros.

Detroit Metro is a hub airport, meaning most passengers never leave the terminal. It isn't generating that much traffic. Downtown is a relatively small piece of the regional puzzle, and isn't gonna have much airport demand.

And rich and middle income wouldn't use it. They would drive or Uber/Lyft like [[almost) everyone else. They don't even use airport lines in, say, Paris, why would they use them in Detroit?

And while I think regional rail is stupid, if you're gonna do it, you would obviously do it up Woodward first. Michigan Ave. isn't nearly as important and would generate less traffic.

Of the total passengers using DTW, 1/3 are connecting and 2/3 are origin/destination. The McNamara terminal is about half and half in that regard, and hardly anyone using the North Terminal in connecting.

Now, to state the obvious, out-of-town clients and business traffic use the airport. They arrive here with no car. They can rent a car, take Uber/Lyft/Taxi, or they can take FAST bus. If rail was built to downtown, some would choose that method. Again these are business clients. Businesses pay politicians. All of a sudden there is money to maintain the system.

Put the rail line somewhere else where only low income and transit lovers use it. All of a sudden businesses no longer care about the rail experience, politicians don’t get paid, and subsequently maintenance money dries up.

Sad story, but true.

**Wesley Mouch** · February-22-19, 12:12 AM

Unlike others, I've found the rail links to airports around the states to be pretty broadly used. Decent smattering of tourists, locals [[usually individuals as groups can more economically take a cab), workers, stewardesses [[great word), ground crew. Pretty diverse. Sure, not a lot of the 'rich'... but plenty of businessmen [[yes, mostly men) who are paying their own bills I would guess.

[[As to the RER, like Europe, it depends on where you're going. RER's about $12. A cab about $60 [[to the core of the tourist areas at least). If you are a group of at least 3, its really convenient to take a cab rather than muscle your luggage from RER over to the regular Metro -- and stairs are well-supplied. I've done both, and I'll scrape together a few Euros to avoid the efforts of public transit with luggage. Most systems in the State, OTOH, have no transfers, and usually have elevators. [[Paris may be somewhat of an exception, where elevators are really rare)