Venezuela- Some Alternative Media coverage

**Pam** · February-02-19, 09:22 AM

From the Democracy Now program:

https://youtu.be/mdKBnBM7G_g

https://youtu.be/QS3s9xFhzGc

Veterans for peace statement:

https://www.veteransforpeace.org/our...coup-Venezuela

Open letter from Chomsky and others:

https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...empt-venezuela

**Pam** · February-02-19, 09:32 AM

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/yo...latin-america/

On Friday, The New York Times

continued

its long, predictable tradition of backing U.S. coups in Latin America by publishing an editorial praising Donald Trump’s attempt to overthrow Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. This will be the 10th such coup the paper has backed since the creation of the CIA over 70 years ago.

**oladub** · February-02-19, 10:23 AM

President Trump has no more right to overthrow Maduro than Obama had to overthrow Khaddafi and attempt to overthrow Assad. Another big mess is likely to result from any such endeavor. President Trump would do better to allow Venezuelans to wallow in the social democracy they democratically voted for until they decide for themselves that they have had enough.

**Richard** · February-02-19, 11:46 AM

^ when the government holds all of the guns it does not matter if you decide when you have had enough,all systematic choices have been removed from your options.

...........

We hear our representatives talking about immigration and the most repeated line is .. It is not who we are as a country.

South America has a history of brutal dictatorships most took power as military leaders that did a coup,not through elections.

They say things should be worked out through diplomacy and dialog but these guys are in it for two reasons,total power and offshore accounts for when they lose their position.

When they gain power they do not run around and say,the Russians helped you,they go around and kill or jail anybody that apposes them.

Back in the late 40s,50s the dictator of Chile gave sanctuary to Hitlers doctor of Death,the guy that set up the concentration camps,he did the same thing in Chile,250 camps where he flew the Nazi flag alongside the flag of Chile,anybody that apposed the government or was thought to, was sent there where the medical experiments and torture continued,over 200,000 just disappeared.

In Venezuela,Chavez took power based on offering the have nots a free ride and preaching on the evils of big corporations,he nationalized the country by appropriating everything,he took the farms in order to divide the land up to the non land owners so they could grow their own food.

Take a city slicker and throw them on a piece of land and tell them to grow their own food,even more so when they had no money to even buy the seeds and were using hoes like it was back in the 1800s.

Then he took control of the food supply and set a price limit to where it forced the other farmers,suppliers and the rest of the food chain out of business.

The ones that saw the writing on the wall back then that had the money,moved it all over to the states into real estate,what happens when the investors pull out of a city? You guys see the daily result of that.

Then he goes through the petrochemical industry and removes everybody with experience and replaces them with people under the guaranteed government jobs for all,imagine working flipping burgers with no education,then the next day you are now a engineer at a petrochemical plant.

They have lots of oil,the problem is it is really heavy crude but they do not have the ability to convert it so it can be refined before it can even be converted into fuel.

Then he kicked all of the companies that were buying the heavy crude but before he set up a refinery,it is kinda like when you have a running car then pull the motor out and on Monday wonder how you are getting to work.

Then he set about setting up the national news,all the reporters were fired or jailed.

The civil rights lawyers either escaped or were rounded up and jailed.

Everybody became a spy for the government,speak negatively about the government and somebody overheard you,if they turn you in they get extra food rations and you and your entire family is jailed.

It is just wash rinse and repeat of creating a socialist dictatorship.

Fast forward to Maduro.

In his re-election people were starving and did not have excess to food,the government was supplying a monthly ration box of food.

If you agreed to and voted for him your name was put on a list and you received your ration box,if you did not vote for him you did not.

You guys can decide if they was a legal election or not.

It is a really simple process either you support him or you flee or die,imagine for a second,no matter what your situation is you have 5 minutes to grab what you can,if you are lucky,and run or be imprisoned or die.

They own Citco,we used to buy 78% of their oil,now they sell it to China and Russia,the doctors all left after the hospitals were nationalized,your family are now your nurses,bring your own sheets,meals,medicine etc.

It has little to do with sanctions and everything to do with maintaining an iron grip of control over the people.

The chosen ones at the top are not suffering,they are still enjoying the perks and living in opulence while fueling their offshore accounts.

Chavez a son of a school teacher takes power,now is gone but his family is still enjoying the billions squirreled away.

His bodyguard was arrested in Florida and had over a billion dollars of assets seized,that was one high paid body guard.

I guess if one believes that a form of government like that is the preferred way to live,as many seem to,without even looking at the allow me to have power or you and your families die aspect of it,then you would appose intervention.

There is no dialog between the parties,you support me or die,pretty easy concept if one really thinks about it.

Obama gave dialog and 1.7 billion in cash to Iran,how well did that work out?

So who are we as a county,what do we stand for,and at what point do we turn a blind eye.

The last time that happened 30 million civilians lost their life,entire cities were destroyed and some of the most evil things that can be done to a human being were common place.

People in this country waste no time in accusing the current president of being a dictator without even realizing that if that was the case,all of their names would have been compiled from the voter registration and two years later they would either be dead or in prison.

It is actually a pretty simple process,eliminate anybody that opposes you and you remain in power,there is no grey area there.

I have met quite a few of Venezuelans that are here in refugee status,they were doctors,petrochemical workers,nurses,reporters,lawyers,taxi cab drivers,everyday people that had a choice of leave or die.

What did they do? They came here and got their women and children settled and safe and went back,they are the ones fighting in the streets and dying and fighting for a way of life that we take for granted everyday.

If it was possible I would be right alongside of them,but not in a dialog situation.

**Meddle** · February-02-19, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

President Trump
Obama
President Trump

Interesting where you put the P word and where you didn't.

Says a lot about your judgment in affairs of state.

**oladub** · February-02-19, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Interesting where you put the P word and where you didn't.

Says a lot about your judgment in affairs of state.

Oops, I didn't preface Maduro, Assad, or Khaddafi as "President" in post #3 either. Nor did I disrespect the presidency of Obama, such as it was, by calling him names like "Chump" or "Drumpf" either. One difference, so far, cross my fingers with Abrams, Bolton, and Pompeo onboard, is that President Trump hasn't overthrown any governments.

**Bham1982** · February-02-19, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

Oops, I didn't preface Maduro, Assad, or Khaddafi as "President" in post #3 either. Nor did I disrespect the presidency of Obama, such as it was, by calling him names like "Chump" or "Drumpf" either. One difference, so far, cross my fingers with Abrams, Bolton, and Pompeo onboard, is that President Trump hasn't overthrown any governments.

I love this stuff. Utter, complete delusion.

Reads like Cult satire, but I think you're actually speaking with conviction. Incredible.

Why is there a Venezuela thread on DYes anyways? Bizarre.

**JBMcB** · February-02-19, 03:27 PM

Backing a coup in Venezuela is ridiculous. They made their bed, they can lie in it. It'll be interesting to see how long they can hold out before selling off all of their assets to China or Russia. If the oil stream is disrupted, there are plenty of other sources these days.

**Pam** · February-02-19, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Why is there a Venezuela thread on DYes anyways? Bizarre.

This is the non-Detroit section. We can discuss anything. If you aren't interested, why are you in the thread? Bizarre.

**Honky Tonk** · February-03-19, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I love this stuff. Utter, complete delusion.

Reads like Cult satire, but I think you're actually speaking with conviction. Incredible.

Why is there a Venezuela thread on DYes anyways? Bizarre.

A Venezuelan thread in the Non-Detroit section and a small child repeatedly using the word cult. Bizarre.

**Bham1982** · February-03-19, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

A Venezuelan thread in the Non-Detroit section and a small child repeatedly using the word cult. Bizarre.

Indeed. It's almost like said Cultists are desperately diverting to nonsense about random irrelevant third world countries led by tinpot mini-Trumps to distract from the epic disaster in the White House. Nah, couldn't be.

But no doubt you have "great concern" for the people of Venezuela. Very hot geopolitical topic here in Melvindale and Fraser. Don't want the Venezuelan people led by a pathologically lying "businessman" who screams "fakenews" at the media and declares "believe me, only I can fix things". Oh, wait...

**oladub** · February-03-19, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Indeed. It's almost like said Cultists are desperately diverting to nonsense about random irrelevant third world countries led by tinpot mini-Trumps to distract from the epic disaster in the White House. Nah, couldn't be.

But no doubt you have "great concern" for the people of Venezuela. Very hot geopolitical topic here in Melvindale and Fraser. Don't want the Venezuelan people led by a pathologically lying "businessman" who screams "fakenews" at the media and declares "believe me, only I can fix things". Oh, wait...

From your previous posts, the "epic disaster in the Whitehouse" and distraction must have to do with the illegal alien living there since W.Bush and Obama are gone.

In post #3, I opposed any Trump effort to topple the democratically elected President Maduro and his social democracy. Venezuelans got what they voted for. JBMcB's post #8 comment is similar. How is opposing something Trump might do "cultist"? I disagree that Venezuela is an "irrelevant third world countr[[y) led by [[a) tinpot mini-Trump". Venzuela has 28M people and huge oil reserves to make them rich. Hugo Rafael Chavez and Maduro's economic policies are more akin to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's policies than Trump's. Sons and daughters from places like "Melvindale and Fraser" who often die needlessly in places like Syria, Afghanistan, and maybe Venezuela.

**Bham1982** · February-03-19, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

From your previous posts, the "epic disaster in the Whitehouse" and distraction must have to do with the illegal alien living there since W.Bush and Obama are gone.

Can you translate this gibberish into readable English? I think your Google Translate isn't working.

You're claiming Melania was secretly living in the White House under Bush? Like in the attic or something? What does this have to do your grave "concern" over Venezeula? She's like a Venezuelan secret agent?

**oladub** · February-03-19, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Can you translate this gibberish into readable English? I think your Google Translate isn't working.

You're claiming Melania was secretly living in the White House under Bush? Like in the attic or something? What does this have to do your grave "concern" over Venezeula? She's like a Venezuelan secret agent?

You claimed that there was "an epic disaster in the Whitehouse" and in most of your recent posts, you claimed that Melania is an "illegal alien". My tweak, although I am guilty of making complicated compound sentences like this one, was that W. Bush and Obama were, as you put it, an "epic disaster in the Whitehouse". Maybe I should use Dick and Jane sentences instead. Look Bham look, see Trump do bad things. Then, perhaps, you might comprehend that I was actually criticizing Trump's possible move although it might not fit your "cultist" narrative. This thread is supposed to be about Venezuela. Remember, in post #7 you wrote "Why is there a Venezuela thread on DYes anyways? Bizarre."?

**Pam** · February-03-19, 03:23 PM

US foreign policy blunders aren't "nonsense" Bham. Isn't it about time we stopped inteferring in other countries? We "can't afford" healthcare but there is an endless supply of money for the CIA and the defense budget. Take your mind off Trump for one second. This crap continues no matter who is President.

Is the US Meddling in Venezuela? Max Blumenthal Asks US Congress Members.

https://youtu.be/BrapYLtkBhY

**Honky Tonk** · February-03-19, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Indeed. It's almost like said Cultists are desperately diverting to nonsense about random irrelevant third world countries led by tinpot mini-Trumps to distract from the epic disaster in the White House. Nah, couldn't be.

But no doubt you have "great concern" for the people of Venezuela. Very hot geopolitical topic here in Melvindale and Fraser. Don't want the Venezuelan people led by a pathologically lying "businessman" who screams "fakenews" at the media and declares "believe me, only I can fix things". Oh, wait...

I'm not sure about the cult thing anymore. I think you're more like obsessed, maybe even possessed. Anyway, keep stock-piling that amo and practicing those safe-space drills. You know, for when "they" come.

**Richard** · February-03-19, 06:26 PM

^ he/she/AJ is anti gun so they will proably be stocking cucumbers or broomsticks to take to a gun fight.

Remember that song.... they are coming to take me away ha ha ...

**Richard** · February-03-19, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Pam

US foreign policy blunders aren't "nonsense" Bham. Isn't it about time we stopped inteferring in other countries? We "can't afford" healthcare but there is an endless supply of money for the CIA and the defense budget. Take your mind off Trump for one second. This crap continues no matter who is President.

https://youtu.be/BrapYLtkBhY

The thing is that if we do not intervene,we become the landing zone for those fleeing,over 3 million have fled Venezuela.

If we really wanted to do a regime change in Venezuela,a simple little drone would work,cheap and cost effective.

The current problem there is Maduro has the military on his side,narco dollars buys a lot of loyalty.

The problem is we just really suck at picking or installing a next in charge and it usually comes down to the worse of two evils.

Venezuela has already ready chosen a next in charge until a fair election can accrue and their constitution can be re-instated.They just need help taking out the trash.

So where do we stop?

Africa has warlords creating genocide,women and children either get chopped up,sold to the sex trade or sold at slave auctions.

The boys as young as 8 are taken and shown how to fire an AK-47 and either join or die.

The men just get chopped up.

We are not the only ones,other countries make money selling weapons to both sides and are in it neck deep as we are.

The reality is that there are a lot of sick demented people out there that will stop at nothing for power and control by fear and any means necessary.They make Hitler look like an amateur.

Lets say for instance,Mexico becomes controlled by a cartel backed President and they start useing the military to systematically eliminate anybody that opposes them,100s of thousands,men women and children it does not matter.

What would you do,let them be?

Sorry but I have seen chopped up babies,it is not a pretty site and personally given the choice of seeing that or healthcare is not an option.

Most of the time it is not in the name of democracy,it is in the name of humanity.

What price tag do we put on that?

**Johnnny5** · February-03-19, 07:14 PM

I'd say we should stay out of it, but why now? We've already been involved for quite some time, and shoulder much of the responsibility for the situation there in the first place. The U.S has been using monetary policy, political pressure, covert operations and more recently sanctions to undermine and destabilize the Venezuelan government for more than a decade. The socialist government of Venezuela likely would have eventually fallen on it's own, but the U.S government wasn't going to sit idly by and watch. We made sure they failed, so we should share some of the burden of cleaning up the mess.

**Richard** · February-03-19, 07:26 PM

They have been propped up by Cuba,Russia and China so really what we do there is insignificant.

Here is a little more that delves into the crux of most of it.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/10/vene...na-russia.html

But to me anyways they cut their own throat when they came up with the jobs for all,no matter what your experience was.

Fry cooks may cook with oil but usually they do not know how to produce and refine it,so it proably was not the best move to put them in charge of it.

This goes back to 2002 when Chavez was in control.

During the Venezuelan general strike of 2002–2003, Chávez fired 19,000 employees of the state oil company Petróleos de Venezuela, S.A. [[PDVSA) and replaced them with employees loyal to his government.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier.../#7a07e8ab7399

**Pam** · February-05-19, 06:07 AM

We need your voice to speak up against another U.S. war for oil.

With Abby Martin from The EmpireFiles

https://youtu.be/g-3hcCe8Rdk

**Pam** · February-05-19, 07:08 AM

The Real News Network

Larry Wilkerson joins Paul Jay as they discuss the special meeting of the Security Council that took place on January 26, where many small countries stood up against American pressure and refused to recognize Juan Guaido as president of Venezuela, and defended the UN principle of non-interference

https://youtu.be/3Yvuapn5jEc

**Richard** · February-05-19, 08:55 AM

^ no surprise China,Russia,India,Bolivia etc reject it,that’s like cartel rejecting enforcement.

Then there is the whole,we are after their oil,because we stopped buying their oil China,Russia and India is now buying it at a reduced rate,so it would be in their best interests to keep it low.

Even if there is a change,the link I posted showed that Venezuela has already committed the oil to China as debt payment for many years to come.

Even at that China does not look at keeping a full commitment because of the unstable history of South America flip flopping between dictatorship and democracy otherwise they would do the same as they are doing in Africa and establishing a solid physical presence in order to secure their investments.

It was not a free and fair election when you give people a choice of vote for me or you do not get to eat,of course those who like that sort of thing will show the support for it.

Russia is not exactly a poster child either for how to run the world,until they say something that somebody agrees with,then it becomes okay.

**Pam** · February-18-19, 07:40 AM

Jimmy Dore show. Aron Mate reports from Venezuela.

https://youtu.be/vq7ngZgzU-k

**Richard** · February-18-19, 02:31 PM

The United States delivered 200 tons of critical supplies to the Venezuela and Columbia border,medical and nutrition supplements for babies and children,but the Venezuela military locked down the border bridge and refused to let it pass.

A flight from Puerto Rico did make it in by flying under the radar but could not even make a dent in the needs.

Venezuela is saying that they will not except humanitarian aid from the United States because it is all part of the plan to overthrow their government.

But yet with Cuba,China and Russia as their allies,none of them are flying in aid,so keep em starving and you can control them.

A weapons flight from Miami was intercepted on the ground and that was used as an example of how Trump is arming the opposition,but it was a grass roots organization of people donating to the cause.

If the United States really wanted to arm the opposition the CIA would be useing Colombian X rebels to bring it all over the border and nobody would know it,not in a radar trackable plane on a tarmac.