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  1. #51

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    What did you do this morning when you got up? I took a hot shower - I’ll bet over half the population of the world has never seen a hot shower.

  2. #52

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    And some parts of Detroit. There are many families squatting in homes, no heat or water.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meddle View Post
    Or parts of the US, say ... Appalachia, many other rural and some urban areas, some Native American Reservations .....

  3. #53
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    What exactly do we pay for every month - reliability ?

    fail-safe systems fail by failing to fail safe

    In response to reporter questions about why one facility distributes 64% of Consumers Energy's natural gas, utility says the station has three separate plants - to allow for 'redundancy.' The problem: fire shut down everything initially. And just 1 of 3 is fully running now

    .....And nobody is calling for hanging some CEO
    from his big toe, naked in the wind chills ?

  4. #54

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    Actually you pay every month for what you consume and not what you anticipate on consuming.

    You have to read your contract with the gas company and see if they are actually required by law to provide you with gas.

    Or you could revolt and switch to,electric,coal,or wood heat and get even with them,or put a bag of dead salty fish on their doorstep,light it on fire,ring the bell and run,that would get em.

    I think it is ultimately Canada’s fault,if you notice all the cold fronts drop down from there,so they must have some liability in it all.

  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post

    I think it is ultimately Canada’s fault,if you notice all the cold fronts drop down from there,so they must have some liability in it all.
    Damn Canadians! Maybe we should build a wall.

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnny5 View Post
    This past Tuesday I actually had to "donate" some of the sand I carry in my vehcile to an Amazon delivery driver. He was stuck on flat, ice covered ground in one of those Enterprise rental vans and couldn't move.
    Ain't no way. I'd have let him sit on it and spin. Let Jeff eat the costs of towing his vehicles out.

    Now, if the guy had been in his own vehicle on his own time, that would have been different.

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Actually you pay every month for what you consume and not what you anticipate on consuming.

    You have to read your contract with the gas company and see if they are actually required by law to provide you with gas.

    Or you could revolt and switch to,electric,coal,or wood heat and get even with them,or put a bag of dead salty fish on their doorstep,light it on fire,ring the bell and run,that would get em.

    I think it is ultimately Canada’s fault,if you notice all the cold fronts drop down from there,so they must have some liability in it all.
    Tell me more about how you switch to electric, coal or wood heat? That's the problem here. There's limited competition. Pot belly stoves are illegal, they try to squeeze you if you do solar http://www.michiganradio.org/post/bi...KYBVPIVsFpQnzI, I guess you could get a heat pump that works off of cherry pits. If there was true competition I guess I wouldn't get so angry at them.

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meddle View Post
    Ain't no way. I'd have let him sit on it and spin. Let Jeff eat the costs of towing his vehicles out.

    Now, if the guy had been in his own vehicle on his own time, that would have been different.
    I don't approve of the way Amazon operates, and think they should have been reined in by the Feds years ago. That said, the majority of their delivery drivers
    are in their own vehicles (Sometimes rented) and on their own time. It's not Bezos who is losing out if they're stuck, it's the contracted driver in the vehicle.
    Last edited by Johnnny5; January-31-19 at 06:44 PM.

  9. #59

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    ^^^Hah! Yeah in the perceived short-term interest (Amazon's) of giving folks down the chain a thin slice of profits, the whole personal delivery option has grown. But if you jack up your car you're on your own.

    Reminds me of the days of yellow pages books. Decades ago, I did the door to door deliveries only to see it was too much. Like get you're own private company to deliver the things. Folks would do well if they had a van and their kids to help. But officially, the said don't use kids to help...

    The money was pitiful, considering the wear and tear on your car and unlike Lyft or Uber you could not build up the earnings with frequency of run. It was sorry, small amount for just a limited drops.

    All profit for the company. Your car run down to the ground.

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLemur View Post
    Tell me more about how you switch to electric, coal or wood heat? That's the problem here. There's limited competition. Pot belly stoves are illegal, they try to squeeze you if you do solar http://www.michiganradio.org/post/bi...KYBVPIVsFpQnzI, I guess you could get a heat pump that works off of cherry pits. If there was true competition I guess I wouldn't get so angry at them.
    I hear you,I live in the sunshine state where it is illegal to be solar dependent.

    Aside from that,dealing with hurricanes where you can lose services for up to 90 days and boating in the ocean I like to have a plan A-B-C and no be 100% reliant on anybody.

    Granted it is different up there and if you are not a homeowner you would be kinda stuck,but for the most part natural gas is a fairly reliable source.

    I would be looking at what if and what can I do in an emergency or not be tied to fluctuating fuel costs.

    In a vintage house that had a fireplace you could get a pellet/wood burner insert they are at 89% efficiency rate and actually are 53c per btu cheaper then Natural gas.The new ones burn 95% of the logs and leave hardly any ash.

    They have dual or even tri fuel boilers for hot water base board heating and forced air heating.

    Even with just dual fuel,Nat gas or Propane,if you had a couple of 78 gal cylinders which are easy enough to store,if you lost the natural gas you could use the propane as a back up in an emergency.

    If an ice storm comes through you could also use the propane to run the generator to at least power the furnace,refrigerator.

    Its more about getting by for at least a week on being self dependent.

    It costs money for the upgrades but there are tax credits and incentives to upgrade the pellet/wood stoves.

    The government put in a program,cap it or something like that,that requires the gas companies that have dead lines,they either have to activate them with customers or remove them,it is cheaper for them to add customers then to dig them up.

    They offer all kinds or free incentives on anything gas related,boilers,heater,cook stoves,dryers,on demand water heaters etc. that helps offset the costs.

    It does not get comparatively cold here and when it does not for an extended amount of time but I am a wuss and have 4 different heat sources for a 1300 sqft 80 year old house with little insulation.

    An electric window A/C heat and cool.
    A 1950s cool looking oil burner with a 55 gal drum.

    An in stream with the central air system with a heat ex changer that uses hot water from a propane fired hot water heater.

    I have a heat pump A/C but they are worthless under 50 degrees and burn lots of electricity.

    My utility bill,even in the heat of the summer rarely goes over $110,I buy the fuel oil off season when it is cheaper,or free on craigslist,but probably not likely up there, and shop propane prices.Uhaul seems to be the cheapest consistently.

    I am going to add a fireplace this summer because,I like them and push comes to shove,I can heat and cook with it with no electricity.

    Interesting enough up until 1945 to 1950 it was like up to 70% of rural farms still had no electricity,they still survived.

    Sometimes you have to find your own options when others are limited .

    Interesting that you mentioned the Pot Belly stove,in the mid 70s,Minnesota,I used to help this lady in her 70s with cutting teh grass and snow shoveling etc. after her husband passed,she heated her smaller two story house all winter long with a pot belly stove,I would go in there to get my hot coca and it was always toasty in there,that was her only heat source and it was not for lack of funds.
    Last edited by Richard; January-31-19 at 07:45 PM.

  11. #61

    Default

    Consumers Energy Gives “All Clear” to Customers at Midnight to End Emergency Natural Gas Reductions

    Jackson, Mich. Thursday, January 31, 2019
    Company Expresses Gratitude for Unprecedented Assistance
    Latest Update: 4:15 PM - January 31, 2019

    Consumers Energy announced that its emergency public appeal to conserve natural gas is ending at midnight tonight for all customers – commercial, industrial and residential.
    “There is no doubt the gas reduction efforts by residents and businesses across the Lower Peninsula played a key role in helping maintain natural gas flow in our distribution system at a time when it was critically needed,” said Patti Poppe, Consumers Energy’s president and chief executive officer. “Because of the swift action of all, we were able to continue critical services – from the bottom of my heart and on behalf of the men and women of Consumers Energy, we thank you,” she said.
    Consumers Energy made its public appeal to conserve Wednesday, following a morning fire that damaged equipment at its Ray Natural Gas Compressor Station in Macomb County. There were no injuries and the cause of the fire remains under investigation. The fire reduced the amount of natural gas that could be delivered to customers from underground storage located at the compressor station. The site is a combination compression and storage field where Consumers Energy stores natural gas until it is needed by customers.
    The damage to compressor equipment at Consumers Energy’s largest storage and delivery system, coupled with continued historically cold temperatures, prompted the company to ask customers to dial back their thermostats and conserve natural gas use in their homes.
    Repairs at the Ray Compressor Station are ongoing, and one of the station’s three compressors is partially in service. A root cause analysis to try and determine why the fire occurred has also been initiated.

  12. #62

    Default

    I'm not trying to imply any skullduggery here but I'm reminded of this scene from Thunderdome:

    Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome (1985) - Master Blaster Scene (3/9) | Movieclips

  13. #63
    Join Date
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    Let us hope - the PUBLIC utility is probed long deep and hard.

    https://www.bridgemi.com/public-sect...re-bitter-cold

  14. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by O3H View Post
    Let us hope - the PUBLIC utility is probed long deep and hard.

    https://www.bridgemi.com/public-sect...re-bitter-cold
    She is doing exactly what she is supposed to do and what proably should have been done long ago,have a plan B and response to weather related emergencies and how it applies to the state.

    Then find out what happened and see what can be done in case it happens again,that is proactive.

    The one thing that is guaranteed is when it comes to utilities,no matter what happens,you will pay for it.

    Utilities have a responsibility to their customers but at the end of the day things happen and as we already know,this country has a serious infrastructure problem.

    Something happened,most of the residents stepped up to the plate and pulled together in a group effort to help,which is commendable,while others want to start waterboarding without knowing exactly what happened.

    What might be even worse is after eating a bunch of salty fish the water system goes down.

  15. #65
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    Mar 2017
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    1,638

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    There was a WAKE-UP call back in 2016/2017 and little happened.
    Ordinary citizens felt no power, no authority, no voice back then either.
    PUBLIC utility my ass, most citizens don't have a clue who is in charge

    michigan-needs-over-5600-at-risk-natural-gas-pipelines-fixed-study-says

  16. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimaz View Post
    Am I the only one that was hopping mad about that text?

    For the record, I am totally okay with the request to turn down the thermostat.

    However, what the actual fuck? 10:30 p.m.? They knew about that fire for TWELVE HOURS. I was so sound asleep and couldn't fall back asleep and had to work the next day, and I'm sure I wasn't alone. Why wait twelve hours to send that? How many more people would have turned it down had they actually been awake?

    Also, it was the most ambiguous, poorly-worded turd I've run across in a while. Consumers is asking? Like I give a fuck about them. I don't have Consumers - and as evidenced by the immediate shitstorm on the Twitter-verse, people were completely confused by that cryptic message. Be clear. Be succinct. Show your work.

    It just pissed me off that we live in the wealthiest country in the world and this is what we get from the titans of industry and the governors' mansions. If I sent something like that at work I'd be in somebody's office explaining myself.

    Glad it worked out but I'm just sick of what passes for leadership these days. The Orange Imbecile is no Eisenhower, Whitmer is no G. Mennan Williams, and late-night-plea Polly Pajamas whoever-who-cares should ask Stanford for her money back.

  17. #67

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    DTE wants to make sure that you know that this was only an issue with Consumers Energy and that they in-fact gave\sold excess gas supply to Consumers as well as sold excess electricity to the grid.

    Dear Valued Customer,

    We know how challenging the subzero temperatures of this past week were for each of you. Keeping our families safe, warm and comfortable is our number one priority. We don’t want you to ever have to worry about whether or not your energy provider can keep your home warm and well-lit.

    We want to reassure you that our electric and gas delivery systems responded, as planned for during such weather events, to provide DTE's more than 3.3 million customers across Michigan with safe and reliable energy. In fact, we were able to provide assistance to others, exporting electricity as called upon to stabilize the regional grid and providing additional gas supplies to Consumers Energy as they contended with a reduction in deliveries from one of their facilities.

    We know how important it is for our customers and Michigan’s economy to have safe, reliable and affordable electric and gas service you can count on day in and day out. That’s why we are committed to doing our part to give you peace of mind, whether in the dog days of summer or the bitter cold of winter.

  18. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by 48307 View Post
    DTE wants to make sure that you know that this was only an issue with Consumers Energy and that they in-fact gave\sold excess gas supply to Consumers as well as sold excess electricity to the grid.
    Got the same e-mail today.

  19. #69

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by poobert View Post
    Am I the only one that was hopping mad about that text?

    For the record, I am totally okay with the request to turn down the thermostat.

    However, what the actual fuck? 10:30 p.m.? They knew about that fire for TWELVE HOURS. I was so sound asleep and couldn't fall back asleep and had to work the next day, and I'm sure I wasn't alone. Why wait twelve hours to send that? How many more people would have turned it down had they actually been awake?

    Also, it was the most ambiguous, poorly-worded turd I've run across in a while. Consumers is asking? Like I give a fuck about them. I don't have Consumers - and as evidenced by the immediate shitstorm on the Twitter-verse, people were completely confused by that cryptic message. Be clear. Be succinct. Show your work.

    It just pissed me off that we live in the wealthiest country in the world and this is what we get from the titans of industry and the governors' mansions. If I sent something like that at work I'd be in somebody's office explaining myself.

    Glad it worked out but I'm just sick of what passes for leadership these days. The Orange Imbecile is no Eisenhower, Whitmer is no G. Mennan Williams, and late-night-plea Polly Pajamas whoever-who-cares should ask Stanford for her money back.
    Yeah, having to awaken from your slumber is a such a terrible thing. It's not like it was an emergency situation where a large portion of the surrounding area was at threat of losing natural gas service during the coldest days in a generation. God forbid that someone has to roll out of bed for 20 seconds to check their phone and push the thermostat button a couple times.

    Odds are that Consumers waited so long because making such a request isn't something that is taken on lightly. They were probably initially hopeful that it could be corrected in time and that step would not be necessary. But with record low temps and record high gas usage obviously that wasn't the case, hence the late evening text.

  20. #70

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I hear you,I live in the sunshine state where it is illegal to be solar dependent.

    Aside from that,dealing with hurricanes where you can lose services for up to 90 days and boating in the ocean I like to have a plan A-B-C and no be 100% reliant on anybody.

    Granted it is different up there and if you are not a homeowner you would be kinda stuck,but for the most part natural gas is a fairly reliable source.

    I would be looking at what if and what can I do in an emergency or not be tied to fluctuating fuel costs.

    In a vintage house that had a fireplace you could get a pellet/wood burner insert they are at 89% efficiency rate and actually are 53c per btu cheaper then Natural gas.The new ones burn 95% of the logs and leave hardly any ash.

    They have dual or even tri fuel boilers for hot water base board heating and forced air heating.

    Even with just dual fuel,Nat gas or Propane,if you had a couple of 78 gal cylinders which are easy enough to store,if you lost the natural gas you could use the propane as a back up in an emergency.

    If an ice storm comes through you could also use the propane to run the generator to at least power the furnace,refrigerator.

    Its more about getting by for at least a week on being self dependent.

    It costs money for the upgrades but there are tax credits and incentives to upgrade the pellet/wood stoves.

    The government put in a program,cap it or something like that,that requires the gas companies that have dead lines,they either have to activate them with customers or remove them,it is cheaper for them to add customers then to dig them up.

    They offer all kinds or free incentives on anything gas related,boilers,heater,cook stoves,dryers,on demand water heaters etc. that helps offset the costs.

    It does not get comparatively cold here and when it does not for an extended amount of time but I am a wuss and have 4 different heat sources for a 1300 sqft 80 year old house with little insulation.

    An electric window A/C heat and cool.
    A 1950s cool looking oil burner with a 55 gal drum.

    An in stream with the central air system with a heat ex changer that uses hot water from a propane fired hot water heater.

    I have a heat pump A/C but they are worthless under 50 degrees and burn lots of electricity.

    My utility bill,even in the heat of the summer rarely goes over $110,I buy the fuel oil off season when it is cheaper,or free on craigslist,but probably not likely up there, and shop propane prices.Uhaul seems to be the cheapest consistently.

    I am going to add a fireplace this summer because,I like them and push comes to shove,I can heat and cook with it with no electricity.

    Interesting enough up until 1945 to 1950 it was like up to 70% of rural farms still had no electricity,they still survived.

    Sometimes you have to find your own options when others are limited .

    Interesting that you mentioned the Pot Belly stove,in the mid 70s,Minnesota,I used to help this lady in her 70s with cutting teh grass and snow shoveling etc. after her husband passed,she heated her smaller two story house all winter long with a pot belly stove,I would go in there to get my hot coca and it was always toasty in there,that was her only heat source and it was not for lack of funds.
    Thanks for the advice. If we do an addition on this Detroit house I'm certainly getting a fire place or stove. In addition to the boiler I have 25K btu Mitsubishi mini/splits (I think the same as a heat pump) and yes I barely use them in the winter because I hear they're quite inefficient. The A/C is great with them though.

  21. #71

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    The reason they waited until 10:30pm is because demand wasn't falling as they'd hoped. Typically demand drops down through the evening, but that wasn't happening with the chilly temperatures.

  22. #72

    Default

    I'm guessing rate hikes to 'cover the losses' followed by huge bonuses to The Suits for 'aggressively and effective crisis management'.

  23. #73
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
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    So who has the GUTS to go on file and bitch about it ?
    Put it on the record, express your thoughts, - it is a PUBLIC utility

    https://www.michigan.gov/mpsc/0,4639...243---,00.html

  24. #74

    Default

    Have you considered immolation as a form of protest? That would be ironic.

    Accidents happen. No one died. Get over it. Utilities' rates are limited by regulation. You want to starve the beast then complain about their crappy service.

  25. #75
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    Mar 2017
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    BULL SHIT - yes in caps - at 500 decibels

    Pipeline redundancy can handle ""accidents""
    These bastards just didn't want to buy natural gas at the market price.

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