Mass Transit in the next 15-20 years

**shawring** · January-23-19, 07:55 PM

I believe it is inevitable Detroit will get a real mass transit system, in the next 15-20 years, any opinions. any comment. It happened in Houston, Charlotte and Phoenix

**Uncledave54** · January-23-19, 08:20 PM

Until the 52 suburbs, townships and county governments can work together for the good of the region, i don't see it happening.

**Meddle** · January-23-19, 08:37 PM

I don't see a transit mess being good for anything but draining tax coffers.

**Seven&wyo** · January-23-19, 08:55 PM

Yeah Meddle all the positives of pollution, grid lick, widening of roads ruining Urban landscapes, ugly ass parking lots and plazas, historic buildings being torn down for parking and the recent discovery that the powder of grinding down the brakes may be toxic. The only reason we don't have an RTA is because LBP was against it. Wayne said Yes, Wastenaw said Yes, Macomb said fuck no and Oakland barely said no. Next time it's only the ballot I betting it would past especially if brooksy boy is gone.

**ABetterDetroit** · January-23-19, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by shawring

I believe it is inevitable Detroit will get a real mass transit system, in the next 15-20 years, any opinions. any comment. It happened in Houston, Charlotte and Phoenix

Which one of those cities used 100% property taxes to raise the local funding?

How the money is raised to pay for mass transit is critical if you actually want to have it. It would seem that simple fact would be pretty obvious around here by now but maybe we need to bash our heads against the same wall one more time.

**casscorridor** · January-24-19, 07:15 AM

Ultimately, funding for mass transit comes down to a question of political will. You can debate the costs and benefits but without political will, nothing will happen. That will simply does not exist in Detroit, and it hasn't for generations. This is unlikely to change.

Detroit may therefore never have a proper mass transit system. It's not the end of the world, but it certainly doesn't signal that the region is in any way progressive. It symbolic of a region that is backwards, resistant to change, unable to change, and therefore not a particularly good place to do business.

No, transit won't change everything but it will change mindsets, and how we see ourselves and how others see us. Even the transit skeptics here should understand this. In a time when our industries are collapsing around us and the region is in steady decline, it's a worthy investment, something to change attitudes, to feel more optimistic, to look towards the future.

**O3H** · January-24-19, 11:34 AM

It won't happen in my lifetime, and I'm in my mid 50's .
I've lost all hope that Detroit will ever have fully functional mass transit.
When I think Detroit, I include the nearby communities like Warren too.
Metro Detroit, the metropolis, the metropolitan area, moving efficiently ?

**JonWylie** · January-24-19, 11:39 AM

The Michigan Constitution needs to change to allow a sales tax to be levied by individual cities. I don't want it to happen necessarily because it is a regressive tax, but it's what other cities do and we need that option.

My radical take would be to make the Lodge our first trasit route. Rerouting traffic to the 96 via the Southfield Freeway and 75 via 696 would give us a viable path to make the Lodge either a subway or a separated rail, connecting Downtown and Southfield

**brizee** · January-24-19, 01:22 PM

Look to 2024 [[2022 if we're lucky).

Nothing will happen until

1. Train unanimous poison pills are removed.

2. County specific plans that were propposed but voted down in the original bill language is restored.

That won't happen until the obstructionist party propped up by gerrymandering is slain.

The most recent state amendment already took care of that from 2020 onward.

The new Secretary of State might be helping that a couple of years early.

**iheartthed** · January-24-19, 01:53 PM

I don't think it is inevitable that Detroit gets a mass transit system. But I do think it is inevitable that the Detroit area will continue to decline if it does not get its act together and start investing in transit infrastructure.

**softailrider** · January-24-19, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by JonWylie

The Michigan Constitution needs to change to allow a sales tax to be levied by individual cities. I don't want it to happen necessarily because it is a regressive tax, but it's what other cities do and we need that option.

My radical take would be to make the Lodge our first trasit route. Rerouting traffic to the 96 via the Southfield Freeway and 75 via 696 would give us a viable path to make the Lodge either a subway or a separated rail, connecting Downtown and Southfield

That is going to happen around the same time you look up and see flying pigs.

**stasu1213** · January-24-19, 06:09 PM

The Mass Transit people would have to get lobbyist in Lansing. As long as General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler also other entities who are affiliated with the automobile have the politicians in their back pocket nothing will be done to have Mass Transit or reliable mass transit in Southeastern Michigan. The Greenway project have stronger lobbyist in Lansing to have these bike lanes installed in some of the most unnecessary places such as on Cass or Jefferson. Bicycles are not a greater threat to the automobile than alternative transportation is. I am a bicyclist myself and I don't agree with some of these bike lane installations. I would love to see more rapid busses with their own lanes and traffic lights and I would love to see more sparsely traveled streets dedicated to busses and autocars

**Tig3rzhark** · January-25-19, 05:48 PM

I'm well aware that it's going to take a lot of extreme actions to restore a mass transit system to metro Detroit.

Of course if there's any top reasons that this area needs it:

Highest auto insurance in the nation.

That is the top one.

Also remember, that every year, there will be a pothole on those roads. Tax money goes both ways, from transit to putting salt on those icy roads and freeways.

We all have to pay for those. Whether we have cars, or not.

**masterblaster** · January-25-19, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by JonWylie

The Michigan Constitution needs to change to allow a sales tax to be levied by individual cities. I don't want it to happen necessarily because it is a regressive tax, but it's what other cities do and we need that option.

My radical take would be to make the Lodge our first trasit route. Rerouting traffic to the 96 via the Southfield Freeway and 75 via 696 would give us a viable path to make the Lodge either a subway or a separated rail, connecting Downtown and Southfield

Ironically, the section of the Lodge Freeway from Wyoming Avenue to 8 Mile was originally a 200-foot wide street with a median in the middle. Completed in the 1930's, the street was called James Couzens Parkway and its wide median was intended for a rapid transit line, as was the medians of Woodward, Gratiot, Fort, etc.

There was a thread about James Couzens Parkway 5 years ago. A photo of the original Parkway is shown in post #16

https://www.detroityes.com/mb/showth...Couzen-Highway

**masterblaster** · January-25-19, 07:30 PM

How hard would it be to mount a campaign to get the constitution changed to allow local sales tax? Would any forumers be interested in helping lead such an effort.

**313WX** · January-25-19, 07:38 PM

Speaking of James Couzens, somewhat off-topic, but I saw a picture of the proposed subway system from 1918.

The City Council approved the plan [[had funding and everything in place for construction), but Couzens vetoed it. City Council's attempt to overrule his veto then fell one vote short.

Just imagine how much different the city would be today had that plan been approved...

https://i.redd.it/xzqbw7znkhc21.png

**stasu1213** · January-25-19, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by masterblaster

How hard would it be to mount a campaign to get the constitution changed to allow local sales tax? Would any forumers be interested in helping lead such an effort.

It should not be hard at all if there wasn't lobbyist blocking the process just to keep Michigan car dependent. Each elected official should be transparent to who are funding their campaigns. If their campaigns are funded by corporations especially the Big 3, Insurance Companies, and probably the oil companies then you will know who's tunes that the elected officials will dance to. Many of these road were repaved with cheap asphalt material that usually break up after the first winter. That's another racket. Look how torn Gratiot is after 13 years of having concrete laid on it instead of asphalt. Too many companies are getting over the Michigan taxpayers. Mass transit need a lobbyist or a group of supporters in Lansing to make Mass Transit a serious issue in Michigan such as the cyclist lobbied to have bike lanes installed

**Worldsgreatest** · January-26-19, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I don't think it is inevitable that Detroit gets a mass transit system. But I do think it is inevitable that the Detroit area will continue to decline if it does not get its act together and start investing in transit infrastructure.

It's not declining so...

It comes down to the big leaders. Brooks is on his way out the future looks bright.

**K-slice** · January-26-19, 12:41 PM

Only one thing needs to happen for Detroit to finally begin working on a mass transit system: millennials need to take power from baby boomers and gen X.

Study after study will show you that millennials have less interest in owning cars than their parents or grandparents. They want to live in vibrant, dense, diverse communities, not suburban and exurban sprawl. They understand man-made climate change is a real thing that will have an effect in their lifetime. One needs to not look any further than who is driving the revitalization of downtown and other neighborhoods.

Of course, you will find exceptions to the above statements. Some millennials will still dream of their parents cul de sac and 3 car garage but they'll be in the minority.

So far, baby boomers have clung to their power well into their retirement years, but the day is coming when the old guard who would still like to see a wall on 8 mile will run out of time. That's when we will finally see comprehensive mass transit become a reality.

**Meddle** · January-26-19, 04:46 PM

Get more money, spend more money

Tax more, spend more

Bigger government, more control, less individuality

Do it again, harder, harder.

Thank you SIR, may I have another!!!

Everything that was old is new again. It only failed because they didn't do it right, but we know better, we'll do it right this time.

**iheartthed** · January-26-19, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Worldsgreatest

It's not declining so...

It comes down to the big leaders. Brooks is on his way out the future looks bright.

Relative decline is decline. During my lifetime, Detroit's fallen from a top 5 metro to barely hanging on in the top 20. I'm in my mid 30s.

**313WX** · January-26-19, 05:41 PM

Metro Detroit is currently the 14th largest metro in the US, and while that's a significant relative decline from its top 5 position a few decades ago, I wouldn't describe it as "barely hanging on in the top 20." Only Seattle and Minneapolis are likely to surpass it by 2030, and even then, it will still be the 16th largest metro area.

**JBMcB** · January-27-19, 01:32 PM

My issue is that, it seems, most people want to start throwing rail all over the place, and the metro Detroit region has yet to prove it can manage to run an integrated bus system properly. Let's see DDOT and SMART get together, run a proper bus system into the neighborhoods and suburbs, THEN start talking about rail.

That being said, we need to get the regional bus system running properly. It's a mess as it stands.

**313WX** · January-27-19, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

My issue is that, it seems, most people want to start throwing rail all over the place, and the metro Detroit region has yet to prove it can manage to run an integrated bus system properly. Let's see DDOT and SMART get together, run a proper bus system into the neighborhoods and suburbs, THEN start talking about rail.

That being said, we need to get the regional bus system running properly. It's a mess as it stands.

People can walk and chew gum at the same time. It shouldn't be either/or.

**iheartthed** · January-27-19, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Metro Detroit is currently the 14th largest metro in the US, and while that's a significant relative decline from its top 5 position a few decades ago, I wouldn't describe it as "barely hanging on in the top 20." Only Seattle and Minneapolis are likely to surpass it by 2030, and even then, it will still be the 16th largest metro area.

At this rate, Metro Detroit will be out of the top 20 by 2040.