Senator Rand Paul comes to Canada for Surgery.

[Canadian Visitor]

That's an aside but maybe Rand's purchase of a mesh-less hernia operation in Canada is a bigger deal than Bush and Obama creating millions of refugees. To each his own.

I don't recall drawing any comparison between these.

I don't know why I would.

I, like most Canadians firmly opposed Bush's intervention in Iraq.

Afghanistan had somewhat more support [[our troops were there); though I had reservations about a scale larger than get the specific terrorists/abettors, as I am well aware of the penchant for invading armies to create a bigger mess, a power vacuum and then leave.

That one is not unique to the US.

Syria likewise hasn't been particularly useful, if intervention were decided upon, it should have been definitive. The West [[Canada, France, UK, US, among those involved there) could have squashed Assad in a week or less if that was the goal. It clearly wasn't. Which makes the whole exercise rather questionable.

But none of that bears on Mr. Rand. His foibles are his own and not be measured against military escapades of dubious value.

If we only hold politicians to account for the latter, they'll get away with more than they already do.

[Meddle]

Yabbutt whaddabout .....

[oladub]

I don't recall drawing any comparison between these.

I don't know why I would.

I, like most Canadians firmly opposed Bush's intervention in Iraq.

Afghanistan had somewhat more support [[our troops were there); though I had reservations about a scale larger than get the specific terrorists/abettors, as I am well aware of the penchant for invading armies to create a bigger mess, a power vacuum and then leave.

That one is not unique to the US.

Syria likewise hasn't been particularly useful, if intervention were decided upon, it should have been definitive. The West [[Canada, France, UK, US, among those involved there) could have squashed Assad in a week or less if that was the goal. It clearly wasn't. Which makes the whole exercise rather questionable.

But none of that bears on Mr. Rand. His foibles are his own and not be measured against military escapades of dubious value.

If we only hold politicians to account for the latter, they'll get away with more than they already do.

No, you didn't make that comparison. On the Democratic thread, Pam is commenting on how the press went into overdrive attacking Tulsi Gabbard for defending heterosexual marriage a couple of decades ago. Tulsi Gabbard began receiving flack when she personally visited Assad when the Obama administration was trying to overthrow Assad. Tulsi Gabbard's opinion was that the U.S. should not intervene against Assad.

We've seen other peace candidates derailed by their parties and corporate media. Kucinich was pitted against Marcy Kaptur when Ohio had to give up a congressional seat. Both had opposed the Federal Reserve and Kucinich was opposed to U.S. interventionism. Kaptur won and no longer complains about the Federal Reserve. Kucinich is gone. Ralph Nader challenged the war machine and is also gone.

Anti-war Republican RON Paul had his congressional district gerrymandered twice to squeeze him out. In 2008, the media and Republican Party pulled all sorts of stunts to silence him.

Ross Perot claimed his family was threatened when he came out against needless wars and government waste.

So I wondered, without having proof, if the media blitz, the faux outrage, against Rand Paul for buying a minor surgery costing him up to $8,000 in Canada doesn't fit that same pattern. Meanwhile there is no similar media outrage directed at Congress members who buy Asian cars costing much more or R&D Party members who voted for Bush's war on Iraq or remained silent about Obama's middle eastern foreign policy disaster.

So I wasn't accusing you personally anymore than for buying into and propagating the putsch that somehow paying for something in Canada made Rand Paul a 'hypocrite". I sometimes buy Costco yoghurt made in Canada but that doesn't mean I am hypocritical about wanting to help U.S. family farmers.

[canuck]

What is the problem with Asian cars? Aren't a lot of them assembled in the U.S?

Why bother selling U.S. products abroad if you can't fathom a congressman using his 75th amendment right to choose what he likes. Ditto for congresswomen or congressanything-in-between and yourself, of course.

[oladub]

What is the problem with Asian cars? Aren't a lot of them assembled in the U.S?

Why bother selling U.S. products abroad if you can't fathom a congressman using his 75th amendment right to choose what he likes. Ditto for congresswomen or congressanything-in-between and yourself, of course.

"Assembled" as in importing a transmission from Mexico, an engine from Japan, then bolting them together on a factory in a non-union state, sending profits abroad to foreign management and ownership in Asia to a company with a glass ceiling preventing women from running the company? There's nothing wrong with that depending on one's politic's and perspective. Besides, isn't it trendier in blue areas to be seen in an Accura or Prius than in a GM product?

I've exaggerating of course. Some foreign label cars assembled in the U.S. or Canada have more domestic content than GM or Ford vehicles. There are still all those other problems about where profits go, unions, glass ceiling... of course. A case could be made that the Manhattan tribe that sold Manhattan for some strings of beads were savvy consumers. After all, isn't it worth a premium to buy the best beads available to make Lizzy's maternal ancestor happy?

With GM and Ford all but giving up building sedans in the US, importing Buicks from China built in factories built with Obama bail out money, and putting an increasing percentage of foreign content in US/Canadian built cars it is becomming more difficult to employ unionized U.S. and Canadian workers.

I don't know what Amendment you are referring to. People have the right to be pursue happiness. Congress also has the right to apply tariffs on import corporations, domestic and foreign, as an alternative to taxing our middle class. The compromise is probably somewhere in between protecting U.S. workers from cheap foreign labor in order to employ and make U.S. workers happy while allow trendier people to be happy buying Kias with an added tariff tax. A balance can be achieved. Happier taxpayers should also be part of our happiness equation.

Trying to get back on topic, faulting Rand Paul for buying a $4-8,000 mesh-less hernia operation in Canada does seem to better fit the weakly supported charge of "hypocrisy" Canadian Visitor claimed; especially if the same mesh-less operation was available in the U.S.. Spending $8,000 on a Canadian operation still only sends a quarter as much money out of our country as buying a Prius. That raises the question of why Huffington Post isn't running stories about members of Congress who buy foreign cars instead of employing Americans.

[canuck]

Globalization is the resulting big step, the further enhancement of profitmaking by ever cheaper sources of labor. 70 years of capitalist interests directing foreign policy, steering Japan and Korea away from communism by handing them privileges over competing American companies devolved into doing the same with China. The Western captains of industry are not feeling the pinch, there is no National interest when the good times roll and that so called National interests are equated with all things Financial at the expense of every other consideration, save military dominance.

When culture is only understood in terms of Hollywood box office-best seller terms, you get what is coming to you; i.e.: a stunted, narrow interpretation of life. A painting is only worth it if a million dollar tag is assigned to it and so on.

I am positive about China's rise in economic and technological terms. I think the Chinese deserve praise for bettering their country and providing a better life for themselves. In spite of the pollution and harmful effects of that rise, it is still possible to find solutions to Energy demands if we cooperate.


But the kind of unbridled capitalism we have now is not going to save us, that is for sure.

[Richard]

The problem is with global capitalism,when the banks control the money globally if the US sneezes so does the rest of the world or visa versa globalization has killed the independent countries and markets

The future is going to be determined by the gold standard again,China and Russia has been on a stockpiling binge for quite some time,the UK dumped half of its gold reserves when it was $220 an ounce,we as the US survives on printed paper money not really backed by anything.

I remember when If our economy was slow they could devalue the dollar and encourage foreign investment,UK and other countries were the same.

Right now with Brexit the UK seems to be the only one that sees the writing on the wall,I agree one day we will be in for a rude awakening.

All free markets and trade do is put everybody’s eggs in one basket worldwide,the last crash showed us it does not work.

But having said that,they say we have really only mined 1/4 of the gold in the ground here,we have plenty of fossil fuel reserves and can grow enough food to feed our country,so even when it does hit the fan we will all still adapt and survive.

China has to steal all of their technology and now even Germany is starting to put the brakes on them.

GE has managed to control 60% of the worlds energy markets so green is already dictated,the Chinese control the colbalt and solar aspects so they control that part.

Once 5G and the power generation windmills finish turning our minds to mush,it will not matter anyways,legalized weed will numb the pain and we will not know what we are eating anyways,just little green wafers will do.

[Canadian Visitor]

The problem is with global capitalism,when the banks control the money globally if the US sneezes so does the rest of the world or visa versa globalization has killed the independent countries and markets

The future is going to be determined by the gold standard again,China and Russia has been on a stockpiling binge for quite some time,the UK dumped half of its gold reserves when it was $220 an ounce,we as the US survives on printed paper money not really backed by anything.

I remember when If our economy was slow they could devalue the dollar and encourage foreign investment,UK and other countries were the same.

Right now with Brexit the UK seems to be the only one that sees the writing on the wall,I agree one day we will be in for a rude awakening.

All free markets and trade do is put everybody’s eggs in one basket worldwide,the last crash showed us it does not work.

But having said that,they say we have really only mined 1/4 of the gold in the ground here,we have plenty of fossil fuel reserves and can grow enough food to feed our country,so even when it does hit the fan we will all still adapt and survive.

China has to steal all of their technology and now even Germany is starting to put the brakes on them.

GE has managed to control 60% of the worlds energy markets so green is already dictated,the Chinese control the colbalt and solar aspects so they control that part.

Once 5G and the power generation windmills finish turning our minds to mush,it will not matter anyways,legalized weed will numb the pain and we will not know what we are eating anyways,just little green wafers will do.

WTF? What the hell are you on? I need to avoid that stuff....it clearly makes the mind mush.

[Meddle]

Ranny is the same doink crybaby that refused to be told he couldn't run for senate and president at the same time. As I recall he basically bought the change in policy to allow him to do so. Of course he got his ass beat by the voters too. Not really a surprise his neighbor did it.

[coracle]

The Fraser Institute “estimated” there was over 63,000 Canadians that travelled abroad for Health Treatments in 2016, which was up about 40% from the previous year. One of the main reasons given was the long wait times for medical procedures.

Wonder if Senator Paul can pull “rank” or will have to wait his turn? Hope he don’t get lost in the crush coming out the other way!

[Canadian Visitor]

The Fraser Institute “estimated” there was over 63,000 Canadians that travelled abroad for Health Treatments in 2016, which was up about 40% from the previous year. One of the main reasons given was the long wait times for medical procedures.

Wonder if Senator Paul can pull “rank” or will have to wait his turn? Hope he don’t get lost in the crush coming out the other way!

First off, while there is no denying that some Canadians seek care in the US or elsewhere, that 'study' is a very poor one.

Its an 'estimate' based on voluntary surveys with a select group of specialists.

The number is likely somewhat lower.

Be that as it may........

There's an entire industry in Canada for attracting Americans to come get their healthcare here.

https://www.findprivateclinics.ca/re...al-tourism.php

One hospital group in Toronto UHN, has earned 30M in net profit off Americans getting care in its hospital set.

***

Again, this is not a pissing contest about which country is better or which health system[[s).

Its about calling out hypocrisy and lies.

The fact that some of you who clearly know very little about your own country and next to nothing about any other feel the need to come out and display your insecurities in public speaks ill of you.

The United States is a great country in spite of you, not because of you.

[coracle]

^If it isn’t a “pissing contest” in your mind, why did YOU start the Thread with the snide observation “This amuses me no end.”?

[Richard]

That is why I posted what I did,to provide an example of hypocrisy,the opertuinity was presented and it was excepted.

[Canadian Visitor]

^If it isn’t a “pissing contest” in your mind, why did YOU start the Thread with the snide observation “This amuses me no end.”?

I'm going to start by being pedantic and pointing out that my assertion that I find this amusing is not in fact an observation.

Now, to your point.

I didn't critique the US healthcare system in any way in that original post.

Nor did I critique the United States, nor her citizens writ large, nor you personally.

I critiqued one person, for 2 specific acts. Lying and Hypocrisy.

Your counterpoints don't establish any distruth in those original assertions.

They are some kind of pissing contest nonsense.

The issue at play is not the quality of Canadian healthcare per se, nor its relative quality to US care.

Its about someone who has described Canadian healthcare derisively and insultingly then crossing the border to take advantage of it.

Hypocritical liar.

With that said, if you post bupkis nonsense from a Canadian right-wing think tank in order to insult me, my country and to misrepresent the facts, I can and I will defend my country and the truth.

[coracle]

^ OK, I’ll just go with “snide” then.

[coracle]

if you post bupkis nonsense from a Canadian right-wing think tank in order to insult me, my country and to misrepresent the facts, I can and I will defend my country and the truth.

I’m not sure how you can be insulted when it’s obvious from your writings you are legend in your own mind. You are a credit to your Country and it deserves you.

[[I see though you have followed my earlier suggestion and have swallowed at least one Dictionary).

[Richard]

First off, while there is no denying that some Canadians seek care in the US or elsewhere, that 'study' is a very poor one.

Its an 'estimate' based on voluntary surveys with a select group of specialists.

The number is likely somewhat lower.

Be that as it may........

There's an entire industry in Canada for attracting Americans to come get their healthcare here.

https://www.findprivateclinics.ca/re...al-tourism.php

One hospital group in Toronto UHN, has earned 30M in net profit off Americans getting care in its hospital set.

***

Again, this is not a pissing contest about which country is better or which health system[[s).

Its about calling out hypocrisy and lies.

The fact that some of you who clearly know very little about your own country and next to nothing about any other feel the need to come out and display your insecurities in public speaks ill of you.

The United States is a great country in spite of you, not because of you.

So the hospitals exist because of the ability to retain the private aspect and if has to be based on strictly social medicine they would be out of luck.

Still not seeing where the hypocrisy comes into play,the hospitals need the cash because they could not survive,so they offer the lower rate in order to get the business.

Rand is paying cash and not useing the social aspect,like already mentioned,it is two separate issues.

You might as well be saying that the Americans that spent the 32 million in order to prop up the social medicine part are also hypocritical.

They have two unrelated customers,social use and cash payers.

[Meddle]

The hypocrisy is that of Li'l Bitch Ranny whining about the Canadian Health Care system, then running to Canada to get his nuts fixed after his neighbor kicked his ass for being a whiney little bitch.

[Richard]

Then people go on a website forum and whine about him whining.

Bunch of snowflakes.

[Honky Tonk]

The hypocrisy is that of Li'l Bitch Ranny whining about the Canadian Health Care system, then running to Canada to get his nuts fixed after his neighbor kicked his ass for being a whiney little bitch.

Yeah, that took balls.

[Canadian Visitor]

So the hospitals exist because of the ability to retain the private aspect and if has to be based on strictly social medicine they would be out of luck.

Still not seeing where the hypocrisy comes into play,the hospitals need the cash because they could not survive,so they offer the lower rate in order to get the business.

Rand is paying cash and not useing the social aspect,like already mentioned,it is two separate issues.

You might as well be saying that the Americans that spent the 32 million in order to prop up the social medicine part are also hypocritical.

They have two unrelated customers,social use and cash payers.

Not surprisingly, you missed the point, as usual, no matter how clearly it is laid out for you.

[Richard]

^ you are still whining.

[oladub]

The hypocrisy is that of Li'l Bitch Ranny whining about the Canadian Health Care system, then running to Canada to get his nuts fixed after his neighbor kicked his ass for being a whiney little bitch.

"Nuts fixed"? Where did you read that and why did you go there?

It sounds like you are condoning violence and the neighbor exercising his Democratic privilege on Martin Luther King Day. Getting only a 30 day sentence for mugging a U.S. Senator, or anyone, makes it politically worthwhile to take someone out of circulation with violence.

Canadian Visitor never made the connection between how paying cash for a medical procedure in a Canadian clinic was what he was referring to by writing that "Its slavery [[Rand) said! Its socialism!" That's a bit of a stretch. Rand was referring to being forced as a doctor to do things. Maybe, for instance, he really didn't want to violate the Hippocratic oath by doing abortions to keep his medical license. That still wouldn't be actual slavery but it would be hyperbole. Rand's 2011 comment about slavery was not specific to the Canadian medical system. Nor did was it, in any way, a criticism of the capitalist paying for cash aspect of Canadian medicine or the quality of medical procedures in Canada.

[Canadian Visitor]

"

Canadian Visitor never made the connection between how paying cash for a medical procedure in a Canadian clinic was what he was referring to by writing that "Its slavery [[Rand) said! Its socialism!" That's a bit of a stretch. Rand was referring to being forced as a doctor to do things. Maybe, for instance, he really didn't want to violate the Hippocratic oath by doing abortions to keep his medical license. That still wouldn't be actual slavery but it would be hyperbole. Rand's 2011 comment about slavery was not specific to the Canadian medical system. Nor did was it, in any way, a criticism of the capitalist paying for cash aspect of Canadian medicine or the quality of medical procedures in Canada.

Except that doctors in Canada aren't 'forced' to do anything. As I noted, they can decline to be involved w/abortions or assisted suicide. Their only obligation is to honestly inform a patient of their options; and to refer, if requested to a doctor willing to perform a legal procedure.

I could care less about Rand's reasons for needing surgery and won't touch on those.

The issue for me is that he has improperly described a healthcare system. That he has done so on more than one occasion, in an insulting, and derisive manner.

Yet, when it suits him, even though it establishes the very thing he said to be wrong, there he is making use of that system and its non-slave doctor who is free to perform work on him.

[oladub]

Except that doctors in Canada aren't 'forced' to do anything. As I noted, they can decline to be involved w/abortions or assisted suicide. Their only obligation is to honestly inform a patient of their options; and to refer, if requested to a doctor willing to perform a legal procedure.

I could care less about Rand's reasons for needing surgery and won't touch on those.

The issue for me is that he has improperly described a healthcare system. That he has done so on more than one occasion, in an insulting, and derisive manner.

Yet, when it suits him, even though it establishes the very thing he said to be wrong, there he is making use of that system and its non-slave doctor who is free to perform work on him.

As far as I can tell, Rand Paul's 2011 comment was not directed at the Canadian health system and was an expression of his personal feelings, as a doctor, at a committee meeting. Did he make another similar statement with any reference to Canada in the same sentence or even paragraph? He paid cash for his operation. Maybe I should stop buying hothouse tomatoes and Costco yoghurt from Canada or that might be taken as somehow supporting everything Justin Trudeau says and otherwise being a "hypocrite".