Chroma in Milwaukee Junction
MILWAUKEE JUNCTION RISING  »

FUN THINGS TO DO IN DETROIT »



Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 75
  1. #1

    Default Allen Park bucking the inner-ring trend?

    Much has been said about the decline of inner-ring suburbs in Detroit. Most of it is true- Eastpointe, Melvindale, Harper Woods, Garden City, etc. just aren't what they used to be. Outside of Dearborn and GP, nearly every inner ring suburb is declining. Allen Park might be a notable exception. It's not doing bad or great- it's doing fine.

    Allen Park's stable position is best viewed when compared with its neighbor, Lincoln Park. Lincoln Park has two leveled shopping centers, dying retail corridors, and dilapidated housing in the northern sections. LP, it's worth mentioning, has a school district that's fallen off a cliff in the past few years. Carr and Hoover schools, which are closer to Wyandotte, remain fine; the rest are looking worse by the day.

    It's also worth mentioning that Allen Park, while not bordering the city of Detroit, has a lot in common with other 1950s built inner ring communities such as Lincoln Park, Redford, and Eastpointe. It probably has more in common with these communities than Melvindale, which has its roots in housing Rouge plant workers in sided bungalows.

    Allen Park is not a growing or thriving suburb by any means (as much of the population is getting older and dying out), but there isn't much evidence to say it's declining. The city remains composed of small, well-kept brick homes on tree lined streets. Shopping options on "The Hill" are plentiful and are growing. Ford and other engineering companies maintain white-collar offices in the city. Perhaps the most interesting part of Allen Park's relative stability is its school district. Allen Park High School is second-best to only Woodhaven High School in mainland Downriver.

    Allen Park also remains stubbornly white. The city has gone from 95% white in 2000, to 92% in 2010, to 87% now. Melvindale has dropped from 87% to 57% in that time, and LP from 93% to 70%. The school district, which in inner ring suburbs is usually less white than the city itself, is 87% white. Even the hispanic population, which is surging in Melvindale and LP, is just 9%.

    Overall, AP has resisted the downward trend of other inner-ring communities. The question, of course, is why?

  2. #2

    Default

    I think a key issue is home construction. Nearly all of AP homes are built solidly of brick (well, okay, face brick, but that's okay), while so many of the post-WWII homes in the inner circle were frame with asbestos siding -- now covered with aluminum.

    Home quality is what destroyed much of Detroit following "the war". They threw up 2-bedrooms frame homes as fast as they could build them, and the long-term quality just wasn't there.

    Hey, I had one of those asbestos-shingle places for 20 years on Lindsay, north of Pembroke. That neighborhood does not look that good today, from what I can see on Google street view.

  3. #3

    Default

    Good housing stock, more affluent residents, better schools, good restaurant/retail mix, and a more stable tax base.

  4. #4

    Default

    I propose:

    -Spillover from Ford Motor Company's Dearborn facilities

    -Detroit Lions Facility (so lots of tax revenue from Ford and Lions)

    -Not directly touching Detroit

    -I wonder if it's intact and mildly charming Main Street has helped it all?

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MicrosoftFan View Post
    Outside of Dearborn and GP, nearly every inner ring suburb is declining.
    Can you provide a source for this quote? Thanks!

  6. #6

    Default

    Doesn't anyone remember the state takeover of Allen Park finances and its' receivership after the failed 2009 Movie Production Studio fiasco? The residents there will be paying millions for years.....

    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...udio/18594027/
    Last edited by Gistok; December-05-18 at 01:52 AM.

  7. #7

    Default

    I don't really agree that every Inner-ring suburb is failing. Hazel Park, Ferndale, Southfield(not booming but failing either), Novi and Farmington are all doing good. Livonia, Redford and Dearborn all seem to be doing pretty well and maintaining their middle class. It seem the fat Southwest (LP, ecorse and RR) Isnt doing all that good, but were they ever? The problem to me it seems like the Eastside is declining the most. Outside of GP who the fuck would want to live in Warren,Eastpointe or Roseville? Sorry to sound insulting, just my 2 cents.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    5,067

    Default

    Allen Park has very low property values. It may be stable-ish, but not thriving. Yes, it's better than Lincoln Park, but that's not saying much.

    Also, many inner suburbs are stable or thriving. Obviously everything touching the Woodward corridor north of 8 Mile is doing well.

    And I disagree that Dearborn is stable. It's generally less desirable than 20 years ago. The "fancy" part of Dearborn near the golf club is very cheap. Anecdotal, but a family I know with one of the biggest homes (a mint-condition 4,000 sq. ft. stunner) had a bear of a time getting their home sold. It basically sold for the price of a bungalow in Royal Oak.

    And GP, while still very nice, is in relative decline. It had the most expensive homes and greatest concentration of wealth in Metro Detroit through the 70's. Now the same home would cost 3x as much in affluent parts of Oakland County. There's very limited retail, restaurant or services, and unless you work downtown the Pointes aren't really on the radar. Also not considered welcoming to non-WASPs. How many Jews, Chaldeans and Asians live in the Pointes compared to, say, West Bloomfield?
    Last edited by Bham1982; December-05-18 at 08:28 AM.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MicrosoftFan View Post
    Much has been said about the decline of inner-ring suburbs in Detroit. Most of it is true- Eastpointe, Melvindale, Harper Woods, Garden City, etc. just aren't what they used to be. Outside of Dearborn and GP, nearly every inner ring suburb is declining. Allen Park might be a notable exception. It's not doing bad or great- it's doing fine.

    Allen Park's stable position is best viewed when compared with its neighbor, Lincoln Park. Lincoln Park has two leveled shopping centers, dying retail corridors, and dilapidated housing in the northern sections. LP, it's worth mentioning, has a school district that's fallen off a cliff in the past few years. Carr and Hoover schools, which are closer to Wyandotte, remain fine; the rest are looking worse by the day.

    It's also worth mentioning that Allen Park, while not bordering the city of Detroit, has a lot in common with other 1950s built inner ring communities such as Lincoln Park, Redford, and Eastpointe. It probably has more in common with these communities than Melvindale, which has its roots in housing Rouge plant workers in sided bungalows.

    Allen Park is not a growing or thriving suburb by any means (as much of the population is getting older and dying out), but there isn't much evidence to say it's declining. The city remains composed of small, well-kept brick homes on tree lined streets. Shopping options on "The Hill" are plentiful and are growing. Ford and other engineering companies maintain white-collar offices in the city. Perhaps the most interesting part of Allen Park's relative stability is its school district. Allen Park High School is second-best to only Woodhaven High School in mainland Downriver.

    Allen Park also remains stubbornly white. The city has gone from 95% white in 2000, to 92% in 2010, to 87% now. Melvindale has dropped from 87% to 57% in that time, and LP from 93% to 70%. The school district, which in inner ring suburbs is usually less white than the city itself, is 87% white. Even the hispanic population, which is surging in Melvindale and LP, is just 9%.

    Overall, AP has resisted the downward trend of other inner-ring communities. The question, of course, is why?
    Wow, I take offense to this. I live in Huntington Woods, 2 miles from the inner city and we continue to be on “top” lists for safety, wealth, housing values, etc. Berkley is booming across the street with dozens of new homes under construction at any given point, Oak Park is improving considerably from years ago and has a solid, well-kept, brick housing stock. Royal Oak and Ferndale to my east and south...well I’m not even going to comment except to say you’d have to be living in a hole to not realize they are booming more than ever.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bham1982 View Post
    There's very limited retail, restaurant or services, and unless you work downtown the Pointes aren't really on the radar.
    Limited big box stores obviously, but the rest is a stretch.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    5,067

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMichigan View Post
    Limited big box stores obviously, but the rest is a stretch.
    I think the reverse is generally true. The Pointes have decent access to big box stores, but very limited retail/restaurants/services.

    How many destination/special occasion restaurants are in the Pointes compared to upscale areas in Oakland? How many higher-end retailers? Nicer hotels? Elective medical practices like dermatologists or plastic surgeons? Upscale gyms? How many interesting ethnic markets or bakeries?

    If you're in, say, Bloomfield, you have three Whole Foods, two Plum Markets, two Papa Joes and two Holiday Markets within a few minutes. In the Pointes there's nothing. For gyms you have multiple Lifetimes, multiple LA Fitness and even Equinox. For shopping you have Somerset, Orchard Lake Road, Telegraph, Woodward, Maple, etc. For dining you have upwards of dozen high-end steakhouses. You have three French bakeries within a mile of downtown Bham. You have kosher everything in WB and Indian everything to the west.

    The Pointes have really nice homes, but not a lot of nearby "stuff" serving a higher-income demographic. It's a place to nest, not really a place to consume. On the positive side, it's less of a "Keeping up with the Jones" feel and there are FAR fewer poseur types. And no traffic congestion.
    Last edited by Bham1982; December-05-18 at 01:02 PM.

  12. #12

    Default

    perhaps allen park is an enclave of semi/full retired ford blue collar workers. many of these people have paid off their homes and children have moved out by now. the recession hindered any prospects for selling homes and relocating. since the neighbors have stayed so then have you, and continue to maintain the home. shopping amenities have improved with the redevelopment of the old VA into fairlane green. drives into downtown for sports games is relatively easy.

    as the boomers die off, things may change...population continues to trend down and the city continues to age

    By 2040, residents age 65 years and older will comprise more than a fourth of Allen Park’s population.Comparatively, the segments of school-aged children are expected to decrease.
    https://www.cityofallenpark.org/geta...shing.pdf.aspx

  13. #13

    Default

    on the whole, metropolitan Detroit is in decline, or at the very best in a period of indefinite stagnation

    there's a lot of places 'holding on', or 'scraping by', or 'stable'

    there's a lot of places in outright decline

    there's a handful of small pockets in which growth is occurring

  14. #14

    Default

    Bham, you should check out the Pointe's downtowns. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bham1982 View Post
    On the positive side, it's less of a "Keeping up with the Jones" feel and there are FAR fewer poseur types.
    Agreed. Since the 1980s (perhaps longer), the Pointes and Oakland have been singled out as good examples of the differences between old money and new, which is perceived to be more ostentatious. I think your overall analysis is correct. The Pointes have gradually become islands of relative wealth surrounded by areas in decline, while Oakland continues to grow. There are, however, some nice shops in the commercial districts along Kercheval.

  16. #16

    Default

    G.P. is by no means in “ decline “ . Its still, as always, its own enclave, but its real estate moves quickly, and its downtown areas are doing quite well..
    Good friends just sold their house for 150,000 more than what they paid for it 5 years ago, with little improvements and in six days, bought another place in G.P. Its a very solid area, good schools, conveniences, no crazy freeway congestion and many who work downtown, especially with kids, enjoy the 15 minute drive to work and back home... Its a great option for them, they all say they feel very connected to the city, downtown and midtown, and all they offer.

  17. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by masterblaster View Post
    I propose:

    -Spillover from Ford Motor Company's Dearborn facilities

    -Detroit Lions Facility (so lots of tax revenue from Ford and Lions)

    -Not directly touching Detroit

    -I wonder if it's intact and mildly charming Main Street has helped it all?
    Anecdotal, but I believe St. Clair Shores is the eastside version of Allen Park.

    Keep in mind both areas have lost population, though somewhat modestly, for decades and continue to. I don't really care enough to look it up but I bet they skew older and it will be telling to see what happens as that generation passes or moves.

    People tend to self-segregate, too. I mean, to somewhat disagree with Bham's point, I really don't think Jewish people would be persecuted in the Pointes, but was actually talking to a Jewish friend a few years ago about this who said "We just don't live in the Pointes." If their family and community is already well established in NW Oakland, why would they move someplace without a temple or good deli?

    Similarly, Allen Park and SCS are where the lower middle class and upper working class white-ethnic and hillbilly second and third generations tend to live. More often then not they then will have extended family and other generations in the same area.

    The migration patterns in metro Detroit are pretty consistent and interesting.

  18. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DetBill View Post
    G.P. is by no means in “ decline “ . Its still, as always, its own enclave, but its real estate moves quickly, and its downtown areas are doing quite well..
    Good friends just sold their house for 150,000 more than what they paid for it 5 years ago, with little improvements and in six days, bought another place in G.P. Its a very solid area, good schools, conveniences, no crazy freeway congestion and many who work downtown, especially with kids, enjoy the 15 minute drive to work and back home... Its a great option for them, they all say they feel very connected to the city, downtown and midtown, and all they offer.
    I agree with this completely. My cousin's house in GPF just sold for nearly twice what he paid for it 9 years ago (GM sent him back overseas). GP is though culturally and historically different from OC, despite being broadly similar economically. It doesn't have several of the things Bham mentioned because there is just not that much market for them there.

    For instance, it's long been noted that the restaurant business can be a bit of a struggle in GP, because GPers eat at home and there has never developed much of a "going out" culture there. That situation has changed a bit, but my friends and relatives there are still much more likely to invite people over for dinner rather than going out with them. If folks there do go out, they tend to go to places that are on the higher end of casual with familiar food, rather than fine dining or ethnic cuisines or fashionable destination restaurants. These days, if they want a more exciting or adventurous experience, they will to go to places in and around downtown Detroit.

    The GPs are smaller and more isolated than the wealthier parts of OC, with much less through traffic from the outside, since because of the lake they really aren't on the way to anywhere other than SCS. GPers I know generally love their cozy shopping etc. areas on Kercheval and Mack (and Kercheval is, in fact, still quite similar to what Birmingham was like until the '80s). They would be aghast and unhappy if something like downtown Royal Oak began happening there. But none of that means that the place is in decline, just different.
    Last edited by EastsideAl; December-05-18 at 06:52 PM.

  19. #19

    Default

    Allen Park has always seemed to me to be of a piece with southern Dearborn and Dearborn Heights. Or Southgate to go further south. The nicer more solidly built types of smallish 1950s houses on somewhat larger lots than other neighborhoods of similar vintage. A nice quiet, safe, and somewhat isolated place for white working class and lower management people who've done reasonably well to settle down, have families, and retire. Bland and unexciting, but also resistant to change (for now). But I would bet that a look at the demographics of the place would also show that its' population is aging pretty quickly, which means that some sort of change is almost certainly on the near-term horizon. And staid, somewhat off the track Allen Park is not exactly the kind of place that today's younger middle class and above buyers are looking for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bham1982 View Post
    And I disagree that Dearborn is stable. It's generally less desirable than 20 years ago. The "fancy" part of Dearborn near the golf club is very cheap. Anecdotal, but a family I know with one of the biggest homes (a mint-condition 4,000 sq. ft. stunner) had a bear of a time getting their home sold. It basically sold for the price of a bungalow in Royal Oak.
    I think that all depends on who and where you are. My mother's cousin died a couple of years back and we had to sell his east Dearborn house. His dilapidated little post-war box house near Schaefer and Ford Rd. went for considerably more than we had ever imagined. A property developer of Middle-Eastern origins bought it, and immediately tore it down and built a much larger house in its place. Since then, there have been 4 more new houses built on his old block, and several more nearby. Housing prices in that neighborhood were in fact consistently going up until the election of our racist-in-chief, which I understand has chilled things around there a bit.

  20. #20

    Default

    A lot has been discussed about the growth in inner-ring suburbs such as Ferndale. When I mean "inner-ring", I mean it more as an adjective rather than describing cities that touch Detroit. For example, Southgate, Garden City, and Madison Heights would all fall into the inner-ring category to me, despite being a ways from Detroit. On the contrary, cities like Royal Oak and Huntington Woods don't fall into this category in my eyes. Even Wyandotte isn't an inner ring suburb in my eyes, since it has been its own city for a very long time. Inner ring suburbs are generally communities that sprouted up in the 1950s composed of ranches and bungalows. GP is in a category of its own.

    I also agree with SCS being the AP of the east. What is the AP/SCS of the West?

  21. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MicrosoftFan View Post
    A lot has been discussed about the growth in inner-ring suburbs such as Ferndale. When I mean "inner-ring", I mean it more as an adjective rather than describing cities that touch Detroit. For example, Southgate, Garden City, and Madison Heights would all fall into the inner-ring category to me, despite being a ways from Detroit. On the contrary, cities like Royal Oak and Huntington Woods don't fall into this category in my eyes. Even Wyandotte isn't an inner ring suburb in my eyes, since it has been its own city for a very long time. Inner ring suburbs are generally communities that sprouted up in the 1950s composed of ranches and bungalows. GP is in a category of its own.

    I also agree with SCS being the AP of the east. What is the AP/SCS of the West?
    Wyandotte in itself is a very interesting community development-wise. Most of the solidly-built brick homes are found in the residential streets east of Fort Street north of Oak Street, as well as along Emmons Boulevard and nearby streets. Both areas are two of Wyandotte's "fancy areas", another being the downtown area where the nearby residential blocks often have what are the oldest homes in Wyandotte. There are still areas of Wyandotte where homes with sidings dominate and my house is sadly one of them.

    Southgate is similarly interesting. The Old Homestead neighborhood (northwest corner of Fort and Eureka) is full of residential blocks with brick homes that predate Southgate's incorporation by a decade or even two. And then you have the Southampton subdivision (southeast corner of I-75 and Goddard) and other scattered areas of Southgate with Macomb Township-styled turn-of-the-millennium big homes.

  22. #22

    Default

    By the sound of some of the comments... some of you may not have been to St. Clair Shores.

    https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...05_rect/11_zm/
    Last edited by Gistok; December-06-18 at 04:28 AM.

  23. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bham1982 View Post
    I think the reverse is generally true. The Pointes have decent access to big box stores, but very limited retail/restaurants/services.

    How many destination/special occasion restaurants are in the Pointes compared to upscale areas in Oakland? How many higher-end retailers? Nicer hotels? Elective medical practices like dermatologists or plastic surgeons? Upscale gyms? How many interesting ethnic markets or bakeries?

    If you're in, say, Bloomfield, you have three Whole Foods, two Plum Markets, two Papa Joes and two Holiday Markets within a few minutes. In the Pointes there's nothing. For gyms you have multiple Lifetimes, multiple LA Fitness and even Equinox. For shopping you have Somerset, Orchard Lake Road, Telegraph, Woodward, Maple, etc. For dining you have upwards of dozen high-end steakhouses. You have three French bakeries within a mile of downtown Bham. You have kosher everything in WB and Indian everything to the west.

    The Pointes have really nice homes, but not a lot of nearby "stuff" serving a higher-income demographic. It's a place to nest, not really a place to consume. On the positive side, it's less of a "Keeping up with the Jones" feel and there are FAR fewer poseur types. And no traffic congestion.
    Where’s the third Whole Foods? I know of one in Birmingham and one in West Bloomfield?

    There are two Kosher restaurants in West Bloomfield: Milk and Honey in the JCC and one at Walnut and Drake, name escapes me. There are several in Oak Park however.

    The area you describe is much larger than “The Pointes.” Bloomfield/Birmingham/West Bloomfield is combined 72+ square miles versus The Pointes which is what? 10?

  24. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MicrosoftFan View Post
    A lot has been discussed about the growth in inner-ring suburbs such as Ferndale. When I mean "inner-ring", I mean it more as an adjective rather than describing cities that touch Detroit. For example, Southgate, Garden City, and Madison Heights would all fall into the inner-ring category to me, despite being a ways from Detroit. On the contrary, cities like Royal Oak and Huntington Woods don't fall into this category in my eyes. Even Wyandotte isn't an inner ring suburb in my eyes, since it has been its own city for a very long time. Inner ring suburbs are generally communities that sprouted up in the 1950s composed of ranches and bungalows. GP is in a category of its own.

    I also agree with SCS being the AP of the east. What is the AP/SCS of the West?
    I understand your definition but it’s not correct if you look up the meaning of inner ring suburb. Maybe the term you are looking for is “mid-century suburb.”

  25. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cmubryan View Post
    Where’s the third Whole Foods? I know of one in Birmingham and one in West Bloomfield?

    There are two Kosher restaurants in West Bloomfield: Milk and Honey in the JCC and one at Walnut and Drake, name escapes me. There are several in Oak Park however.

    The area you describe is much larger than “The Pointes.” Bloomfield/Birmingham/West Bloomfield is combined 72+ square miles versus The Pointes which is what? 10?
    there's a TJ's and newish Ninos on Telegraph @ Maple

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Instagram
BEST ONLINE FORUM FOR
DETROIT-BASED DISCUSSION
DetroitYES Awarded BEST OF DETROIT 2015 - Detroit MetroTimes - Best Online Forum for Detroit-based Discussion 2015

ENJOY DETROITYES?


AND HAVE ADS REMOVED DETAILS »





Welcome to DetroitYES! Kindly Consider Turning Off Your Ad BlockingX
DetroitYES! is a free service that relies on revenue from ad display [regrettably] and donations. We notice that you are using an ad-blocking program that prevents us from earning revenue during your visit.
Ads are REMOVED for Members who donate to DetroitYES! [You must be logged in for ads to disappear]
DONATE HERE »
And have Ads removed.