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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Worldsgreatest View Post
    ..Incompetent, expensive and corrupt cities like San Francisco struggle, not surprising...
    San Francisco expensive?

    No argument here. I have absolutely no desire to live there and live with a bunch of roommates in shoe box.

    That being said, Its metro area has added nearly 400,000 people in the past decade, so for a lot of people, the high costs aren't enough to deter them from living there (this is part of what drives the COL BTW, supply vs. demand). Furthermore, for everyone else, there are quite a few options in terms of "bang for your buck" between expensive San Francisco and Detroit, so I'm not sure how this fact alone necessarily makes Detroit look any better. Just as San Francisco is expensive for a reason, the inverse also applies as Detroit is cheap for a reason.

    San Francisco corrupt?

    Yeah, I don't think people in glass houses should throw stones. A study was recently by the University of Illinois at Chicago that rankrd the 15 most corrupt cities in the US by the number of federal corruption convictions. San Francisco is nowhere to be found on the list, but guess what city landed at #8?

    https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/1...for-2018.html/

    Now, one could say the corrupt leaders in San Francisco just haven't got caught. That's possible, but what that suggests to me is they're apparently a lot more competent at their jobs if they have avoided corruption charges, which brings us to the next item...

    San Francisco incompetent?

    True, San Francisco has budget problems as a result of its long-term debt obligations (like most big legacy cities), but Detroit isn't that much better off. The bankruptcy helped it to kick the can down the road some by restructing its pension obligations, but it's still suffering from the fundamental problems of an unstable/non-diverse economy and a relatively small middle class/corporate tax base. Plus, the quality of services it offers still range from mediocre by first world standards to third world-like. San Francisco, on the other hand, is still able to offer its citizens excellent level of services for their tax dollars (amongst the top 25 in the country in terms of quality).

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inm...n-america/amp/
    Last edited by 313WX; December-07-18 at 03:13 AM.

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meddle View Post
    2,078?

    Is that some kind of per capita figure? Certainly there are more than 2,100 homeless people in Detroit. I might believe 21,000. Or don't they count those squatting in shelled out remnants of what used to be homes?
    It's a "Point-In-Time" estimate. Basically, cities across the country pick some random day/night to have shelters provide a ball-park figure of how many peope they're housing right then and there.

    It's obviously flawed, but it is the "official" number the Federal Government uses, so why not go with it for the sake of this discussion. It doesn't change my point
    Last edited by 313WX; December-07-18 at 03:13 AM.

  3. #53

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    313WX, your posts are great. It shows that Detroit is back in the conversation. The fact that you do it from another city shows how far Detroit has come in terms of being in the conversation. Some see you as negative, but it shows much more as far as Detroit's come back, this is great for the city and keep up the great work!!! The stats that you show don't stunt the growth of the City, or stop the many people who move in and enjoy the great spaces and parks. Keep up the great work that you do!!! It shows more and more that the city you live in is not that interesting as the great city of Detroit!!!

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by bragaboutme View Post
    313WX, your posts are great. It shows that Detroit is back in the conversation...
    Thank you.

    I'm not sure what you mean as far as your second sentence. Detroit has never been "out" of the conversation.

    That said, the reality (as proven in this thread) is that people do severely oversell the good things happening in Detroit. It's great to celebrate the "progress" that has been made over the past half-decade, but the truth is Detroit and Michigan continue to lack in a lot of ways (in terms of QOL) compared to other major cities.

    Instead of thumbing your noses at natives who have left the region and care enough to offer their unpopular opinion, why not embrace their constructive feedback and focus on taking the aggressive steps to address the things being criticized?
    Last edited by 313WX; December-07-18 at 12:13 PM.

  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meddle View Post
    2,078?

    Is that some kind of per capita figure? Certainly there are more than 2,100 homeless people in Detroit. I might believe 21,000. Or don't they count those squatting in shelled out remnants of what used to be homes?
    I'm pretty sure that count only includes people city government employees personally found in their "point in time count" survey, walking around trying to find people living in the street. That doesn't include people taking shelter in the abundance of abandoned homes. And last year they conducted the survey in the dead of winter, on January 31. The low temperature was 12 degrees that night! In other words a tiny tiny tiny fraction of the reality. (If you think the census undercounts the homeless...)

    Tasha Gray, Executive Director of the Detroit Homeless Action Network, said that’s the lowest count they've seen “in a number of years.” But she also said Detroit's actual homeless population is around 14,000.

    I don't have a bone to pick in this debate, but you probably know by now I'm a stickler for facts.

    Among the many reasons the homeless are much more visible in San Francisco is abandoned homes are practically nonexistent, the city is four times denser, unused space barely exists, and the weather never gets so cold.

    Also, services for the homeless in San Francisco are pretty great compared to most cities'.

    According to Jeff Kositsky, director of San Francisco's Department of Homelessness and Supportive Housing, there are about 20,000 homeless people living in San Francisco at one time or another per year.

    Detroit has a population of 673,000. San Francisco's is 884,000 (in an area less than a third as big as Detroit). Using Gray and Kositsky's numbers that puts Detroit's per capita homeless population at 2.1%. And it puts San Francisco's at 2.3%. That's not much of a difference, despite all the good reasons why it's better to be homeless over there.

    Detroit leaders credit "housing first" strategy with reducing homelessness
    http://www.michiganradio.org/post/de...g-homelessness

    What it really costs to help the homeless. And how businesses can do more
    https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...s-13178743.php

    Wow, we're off topic, eh?
    Last edited by bust; December-07-18 at 12:39 PM.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worldsgreatest View Post
    There are no needles or feces anywhere in central Detroit, that's completely fake news and alternative facts. Also the city's homeless population is likely the lowest in the country, and you best believe "non-poor" are walking the streets.
    LOL! I hope this is satire. No bums or street poop in Detroit, "obviously". The 27 dudes I see asking for money every time I head downtown are all figments of my imagination, and the streets are obviously sparkling clean! Hell, I regularly eat dinners right off the Cass Corridor pavement.

    And rich folks obviously are strolling the ghetto on a regular basis. Bloomfield swells, in their parasols and top hats, regularly promenade through Dexter Davison.

  7. #57
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    ^ the only thing satirical here are you and your la-la-land fantasy posts from an alternate universe.

    Beggars exist in every city in America, that's just a fact of big cities, that in no way is proof of homeless and feces being a significant problem in Detroit at least nowhere near the level of a place like San Francisco. The facts are there the stats are there, what you think and feel is meaningless. Detroit doesn't have a homeless/fecal matter problem, end of story.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    ^^^I pulled the actual raw data from 2017 to back up the ridiculous claim by the above poster and of course, it's bullshit.
    That's not accurate data, lol legit the article I posted shows it's well below 2,000

    That's not middle pack at all, you're comparing Detroit to cities significantly smaller, pure manipulation and you wanna talk about credibility? get real.

    Here's an actual comparison of all the major cities, Detroit being at the very bottom, lmfao.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defa...7_homeless.png
    Last edited by Worldsgreatest; December-07-18 at 03:54 PM.

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Worldsgreatest View Post
    That's not accurate data, lol...
    It's data from literally the same source referenced in the Crain's article you posted earlier.
    Last edited by 313WX; December-07-18 at 04:03 PM.

  10. #60
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    The Crain's article puts the homeless count at 1,769 which is a 15% decrease from last year.



  11. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Worldsgreatest View Post
    The Crain's article puts the homeless count at 1,769 which is a 15% decrease from last year.


    Still waiting for you to back up your BS claim that Detroit has the lowest homeless population in the country.

    What raw data from HUD are you comparing that claim to? Or will you just admit you were wrong?

  12. #62

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    FYI Zerohedge pushes conspiracy theories and is almost certainly part of the Russian propaganda network.

    Media Bias Fact Check: ZeroHedge
    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/zero-hedge/

    Prop or Not: ZeroHedge
    http://www.propornot.com/2016/10/zero-hedge.html

    JPMorgan has pulled ads from Zero Hedge that ended up there by accident
    https://qz.com/1067868/jpmorgan-remo...on-zero-hedge/

    Facebook is promoting conspiracy theory website Zero Hedge in Trending topics
    https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/20...-topics/219160

    Here are the conservative media outlets and figures pushing the outlandish theory that Christine Blasey Ford misidentified her attacker

    https://www.mediamatters.org/shows-a...ons/zero-hedge

  13. #63

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    https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/1...for-2018.html/

    I had no idea there was a place more corrupt than Chicago, but not surprised to learn it's DC. I lived in Chicago for about 20 years, and after complaining several times about certain issues in what was generally consider a nice area, it was carefully mentioned to me that I should consider a donation to my alderman. Said I thought that's what property taxes were about, i received a snicker. Wish i was on the phone and had that recorded.

  14. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bham1982 View Post
    Those companies are in every major metro. Firms like Google are everywhere. And a lot of bigtech staffing in Detroit is due to auto industry advertising. It isn't like they're hiring tons of software dudes.
    Except if you go look at what Accenture is hiring for in Detroit, a lot of it is techie/dev jobs.

  15. #65

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    Bham wrong again...

  16. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    Instead of thumbing your noses at natives who have left the region and care enough to offer their unpopular opinion, why not embrace their constructive feedback and focus on taking the aggressive steps to address the things being criticized?
    You bailed. If you are not willing to "focus on taking the aggressive steps to address the things being criticized", why do you think others should?

    Furthermore, you rarely give any suggestions on how to make the region more attractive. Georgia is more attractive because of its climate, the lower taxes, and the lack of unions. Michigan can't do anything about its climate, we need to raise taxes to improve our roads & our public transit & our public education, and unions have less and less impact, but they still are a necessity to ensure good wages and benefits.

    So what exactly is Detroit/Michigan supposed to do to become like Georgia?????

  17. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by dtowncitylover View Post
    Except if you go look at what Accenture is hiring for in Detroit, a lot of it is techie/dev jobs.
    I think what Accenture did is set up their technical back office in Livonia and that might be what you're seeing ads around. This is a trend for large consulting firms. My firm set up something similar about 8 or 9 years ago down and it has been a huge success.

    If that is indeed what's in Livonia, then it is different from the client-facing office that is moving downtown. Every major city will have a client-facing office, and those usually go in the business centers, in order to be near the clients. The technical back office operations usually go to low cost some suburban office park, but there is typically only one per domestic market.

  18. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by masterblaster View Post
    So what exactly is Detroit/Michigan supposed to do to become like Georgia?????
    I answered your question once before.

    If you want to know my response, please review the Amazon HQ2 where I quoted you specifically in my response.

    I'm not repeating myself.

  19. #69
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    More tech expansion...

    PwC adding 125 jobs in Detroit for cybersecurity team

    PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP has established a cybersecurity center in its downtown Detroit office

    About 125 employees will be added to PwC's office at One Detroit Center

    Most of the jobs will be entry-level college graduate recruits

    PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP is adding 125 information-technology workers over three years to its downtown Detroit office for a new internal cybersecurity team the global accounting firm began building last year.
    PwC chose Detroit for a new Network Information Security office and Security Operations Center because of the region's lower cost of living, access to IT talent and its geographic location in the Eastern Time Zone, said Ray Telang, managing partner of PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP's Michigan operations.
    https://www.crainsdetroit.com/servic...rsecurity-team

  20. #70
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    Not in the city but a hundred more in A2

    Silicon Valley company hires 100 in Ann Arbor

    PITTSFIELD TOWNSHIP, MI - Software development company Nexient has promised to bring 300 jobs to the Ann Arbor area by 2020 and has already hired more than planned in the first year.
    The company aimed to fill 60 jobs in 2018 but reached 100 with help from a $1.5-million grant from the Michigan Economic Development Corporation. Nexient aims to hire jobs in digital product design, development and quality engineering, according to a news release.

    “Michigan’s vibrant tech economy is attractive for fast-growing companies like Nexient,” said Jeff Mason, MEDC chief executive officer. “Michigan is the place where high-tech talent demands can be met, and tech companies can grow. With a strong culture of innovation and learning, our state is a magnet for the software talent they need.”
    https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor...ann-arbor.html

  21. #71

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    A few hundred jobs is peanuts if the city wants to brand itself as a Silicon [blank]. My view continues to be that the best strategy is to build upon existing strengths in manufacturing. Cars are already just sophisticated computers with wheels, so it's really about integrating software with heavy machinery. How can advanced manufacturing and the software that is integrated with it, continue to grow here?

  22. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Worldsgreatest View Post
    Not in the city but a hundred more in A2

    Silicon Valley company hires 100 in Ann Arbor



    https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor...ann-arbor.html

    Ann Arbor, not Detroit, is at least Michigan's, if not the Midwest's (maybe) tech hub.

    https://www.clickondetroit.com/all-a...n-arbor-center

    And it is getting f-ing expensive to live here as a result. No longer a hippie university town, it is now pretty yuppified and bland IMO - and extremely livable (if you can afford it).

    Royal Oak and Grosse Pointe home prices expensive? *Laughs in Ann Arbor*

  23. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by casscorridor View Post
    A few hundred jobs is peanuts if the city wants to brand itself as a Silicon [blank]. My view continues to be that the best strategy is to build upon existing strengths in manufacturing. Cars are already just sophisticated computers with wheels, so it's really about integrating software with heavy machinery. How can advanced manufacturing and the software that is integrated with it, continue to grow here?
    Agreed completely.

  24. #74

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    Not to forget the average SF temperatures that are never too hot and never too cold, seldom more than a 30 degree range between winter and summer.

  25. #75
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    Umm, these are just a few examples. The point is it's a solid sign of a healthy tech ecosystem in Michigan which is obviously growing. Ford's campuses are adding thousands of tech-related jobs as well but nothing is good enough for DetroitYes negative nancies.

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