Gunman Opens Fire Kills Many in Synagog

[Zacha341]

Hate crime charges filed in Pittsburgh synagogue shooting...
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/27/us/pi...ter/index.html

72 hours of hate and violence in America
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/28/us/72...ica/index.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-practice.html

[jcole]

Hate crime charges filed in Pittsburgh synagogue shooting...
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/27/us/pi...ter/index.html

72 hours of hate and violence in America
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/28/us/72...ica/index.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-practice.html

The hate and violence has been much longer than 72 hours...

[Zacha341]

^^^ Yes indeed. The news in general written or shown has to add their own headline spin to achieve the 'if it bleeds it leads' thing!

There was a recent attack upon an older Jewish man in New York [[yes, I KNOW the link is from 'Fixed News' but but it is factual including video and a general search verify the occurrence):

https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-...aught-on-video

[Jimaz]

Notice that there's a whole lot of scapegoating going on in the minds of these violent people. No doubt they've suffered some kind of real injustice in their life. Who hasn't in this post-Great-Recession world? But their anger is being deflected toward identifiable groups. The question is by whom? Can we ever know? I'm thinking about the linchpin, not the lower level handlers.

No, I'm not suggesting Trump. He's too visible, too obvious. Possibly his puppeteer, whoever that might be.

Whoever it is isn't fomenting this violence out of the kindness of their heart. They have something to gain from it. That's one clue to their identity that they can't conceal.

cui bono?

[GMan]

Notice that there's a whole lot of scapegoating going on in the minds of these violent people. No doubt they've suffered some kind of real injustice in their life. Who hasn't in this post-Great-Recession world? ..................

cui bono?

Yep can't take personal responsibility for their actions and use that energy to change their plight.

[aj3647]

11 dead. And coming as a surprise to no one, the shooter was an extremist Right Wing nut job.

Shooter is 46-year old Robert Bowers. A virulent anti-semite, Bowers was a frequent poster on Gab [[a twitter-like service used almost exclusively by the Alt-Right and white supremacists who have been banned from Twitter) where he also shared his extreme hatred of Hispanic immigrants and his beliefs that Jews were helping the Central American migrant caravan [[the same caravan Trump has been railing about). Bowers was particularly critical of the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society [[HIAS), which he felt was helping Hispanic "invaders" [[his terminology). He had six firearms, all legally purchased, including an AR-style rifle.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/27/us/sy...ile/index.html

https://heavy.com/news/2018/10/robert-bowers/

Prior to the shooting, he posted on Gab: "can't sit by and watch my people get slaughtered. Screw your optics, I'm going in."

Another post of his from Gab said: "Diversity means chasing down the last white person."

But me guess, "False flag", right Trumpers? Did Hillary brainwash him using MK Ultra? Or he was paid by Soros to kill Jews and then get shot by the police and spend the rest of his life in prison? Or maybe all those dead Jews are crisis actors? Come on, I'm sure at least a few of you believe that.

[oladub]

Robert Bowers is anti-Jewish. He is not pro-Trump. He in not affiliated with either party. Being anti-Jewish is not an exclusively far right position. Most of Israel's neighbors don't like their Jewish neighbors either. Using the anti-gun narrative would probably be a better spin than trying to link Robert Bowers with Trump in this case.

https://heavy.com/news/2018/10/rober...ican-democrat/

"Bowers was critical of President Trump on social media, according to Heavy, saying, “For the record, I did not vote for him nor have I owned, worn or even touched a maga hat.” two days before the attack, Bowers wrote, according to The New York Times, adding: “Trump is a globalist, not a nationalist."

[canuck]

Robert Bowers is anti-Jewish. He is not pro-Trump. He in not affiliated with either party. Being anti-Jewish is not an exclusively far right position. Most of Israel's neighbors don't like their Jewish neighbors either. Using the anti-gun narrative would probably be a better spin than trying to link Robert Bowers with Trump in this case.

https://heavy.com/news/2018/10/rober...ican-democrat/

"Bowers was critical of President Trump on social media, according to Heavy, saying, “For the record, I did not vote for him nor have I owned, worn or even touched a maga hat.” two days before the attack, Bowers wrote, according to The New York Times, adding: “Trump is a globalist, not a nationalist."

Absolutely right about the characterization of Alt-right not being the only anti-Jewish driven coalition. The far left in Europe has also had many subscribers to anti-zionist, anti-semitic, and just plain anti-Jewish storylines.

I think that you have to look closely at the opportunists in all camps to relate the stories of oppression of ethnic groups over time by the radical Left and Right camps.

Chump has not so much given lip service to the Alt-Right as opposed False vs True, Black vs White, Muslim vs Christian, American vs Criminal or foreign opponent and using these very stark opposites in his quest for popularity. The more he tweets to a simple minded audience in need of validation of uncomplicated concepts, the more fragmented and disorienting American society becomes, in spite of a massive Free Press and political opposition.

[aj3647]

Robert Bowers is anti-Jewish. He is not pro-Trump. He in not affiliated with either party. Being anti-Jewish is not an exclusively far right position. Most of Israel's neighbors don't like their Jewish neighbors either. Using the anti-gun narrative would probably be a better spin than trying to link Robert Bowers with Trump in this case.

That he did not like Donald Trump does not mean that Bowers wasn't Right Wing. He didn't like Trump because he didn't think Trump was extreme ENOUGH. His stated disagreement with Trump was that Trump had Jews in his Administration.

No, being anti-semitic isn't exclusively Right Wing, but are you really going to sit there and pretend like that's the ONLY belief Robert Bowers expressed online, on an extremist Right Wing platform [[Gab) no less? What about his pro-gun views [[licensed gun owner, owned at least 6 firearms including an AR-style rifle)? What about his anti-immigrant and white supremacist views? He railed against the migrant caravan that has become the Right Wing cause du jour online right now.

No, Robert Bowers was not pro-Trump. But yes, he was a Right Wing terrorist who's terrorist act was 100% motivated by his extremist Right Wing political beliefs. If you read his Gab postings, he was specifically set off on his rampage by the rhetoric surrounding the Central American migrant caravan and his belief that this imminent "invasion of America" was being aided by the Jews.

Why can't you just admit that this guy was a Right Wing terrorist? Which side has been using rhetoric that the migrant caravan is an "invasion of America" and the refugees in it are coming here to murder and rape us all?

[Richard]

^

Do you ever think sometimes people are compelled by thier own driving forces and they do not need somebody to prod them on?

You are asking somebody to admit that somebody is a right wing terrorist when the DA had already ruled this as a hate crime and not a terrorist act.

Do not be so dramatic,even when you call them refugees,which they are not and even if there was 10,000 of them,there is no physical way they could murder and rape us all.

Why cannot you admit that they are not refugees?

[ABetterDetroit]

Robert Bowers is anti-Jewish. He is not pro-Trump. He in not affiliated with either party. Being anti-Jewish is not an exclusively far right position. Most of Israel's neighbors don't like their Jewish neighbors either. Using the anti-gun narrative would probably be a better spin than trying to link Robert Bowers with Trump in this case.

https://heavy.com/news/2018/10/rober...ican-democrat/

"Bowers was critical of President Trump on social media, according to Heavy, saying, “For the record, I did not vote for him nor have I owned, worn or even touched a maga hat.” two days before the attack, Bowers wrote, according to The New York Times, adding: “Trump is a globalist, not a nationalist."

Ok, since you thought bringing up the “gun” is more relevant to this tradegy, let’s get to it...

Why are we not taxing the gun [[receiver) capable of semi-automatic fire in rifles $500 at the point of manufacture or import to help finance these lengthy and expensive investigations that these murders by the scores require?

Maybe a little financial incentive to keep the nutbags who live in mommy’s basement or out of their vans to have to put a little more cash than they can make delivering pizzas in a weekend for a military type rifle would be good for a little more ‘law and order’ in this country in the future.

All of us having to pay the financial burden when there is a perfectly reasonable answer via taxation to slowing down the amount of these weapons being pumped into our society at an ever decreasing price point while raising funds to help pay the cost for the effects from semi-automatic infantry rifles at the same time seems fiscally irresponsible these days.

[canuck]

Ok, since you thought bringing up the “gun” is more relevant to this tradegy, let’s get to it...

Why are we not taxing the gun [[receiver) capable of semi-automatic fire in rifles $500 at the point of manufacture or import to help finance these lengthy and expensive investigations that these murders by the scores require?

Maybe a little financial incentive to keep the nutbags who live in mommy’s basement or out of their vans to have to put a little more cash than they can make delivering pizzas in a weekend for a military type rifle would be good for a little more ‘law and order’ in this country in the future.

All of us having to pay the financial burden when there is a perfectly reasonable answer via taxation to slowing down the amount of these weapons being pumped into our society at an ever decreasing price point while raising funds to help pay the cost for the effects from semi-automatic infantry rifles at the same time seems fiscally irresponsible these days.

Yes but, Richard will kindly point out to you that cars should also be taxed up the wazoo for the same lethal outcome.

[canuck]

Since this tragedy occured in Pennsylvania, I thought I might inject a little Republican Party antics by gubernatorial candidate Scott Wagner. He has a fine approach to figurative violence.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cql0FWqF61E

[Richard]

^ So after you impose a tax on the gun what happens if somebody straps a M80 to a five gallon gas can and throws it through a window?

A pistol is also semi automatic,a 6 shooter is semi automatic.

Have you ever looked up the stats for knife killings in the UK and by law you are banned from carrying one,and have to show identification in order to buy a simple steak knife which is then registered into a database.

An IED can be made from a simple Bbq propane tank,you will never stop anything by trying to tax or eliminate weapons of choice,there is not that much time in the world.

[Richard]

Yes but, Richard will kindly point out to you that cars should also be taxed up the wazoo for the same lethal outcome.

No but cellphones should be,because 15 people die everyday from distracted driving with them.

But that is different because you cannot attach a right winger did it to them.

Do you not think that it is kinda weird that this is a tragedy but the same amount of people that die everyday from cell phones is concidered a statistic?

[oladub]

That he did not like Donald Trump does not mean that Bowers wasn't Right Wing. He didn't like Trump because he didn't think Trump was extreme ENOUGH. His stated disagreement with Trump was that Trump had Jews in his Administration.

No, being anti-semitic isn't exclusively Right Wing, but are you really going to sit there and pretend like that's the ONLY belief Robert Bowers expressed online, on an extremist Right Wing platform [[Gab) no less? What about his pro-gun views [[licensed gun owner, owned at least 6 firearms including an AR-style rifle)? What about his anti-immigrant and white supremacist views? He railed against the migrant caravan that has become the Right Wing cause du jour online right now.

No, Robert Bowers was not pro-Trump. But yes, he was a Right Wing terrorist who's terrorist act was 100% motivated by his extremist Right Wing political beliefs. If you read his Gab postings, he was specifically set off on his rampage by the rhetoric surrounding the Central American migrant caravan and his belief that this imminent "invasion of America" was being aided by the Jews.

Why can't you just admit that this guy was a Right Wing terrorist? Which side has been using rhetoric that the migrant caravan is an "invasion of America" and the refugees in it are coming here to murder and rape us all?

Aj, I noticed that you didn't quote Gab when it came to Gab quoting Bowers saying he never wore a MAGA hat in the Gab link you mentioned. Nice editing. Spin, spin spin... Surprised you didn't mention Russia.

Re the other topic you brought up: "Invasion" -

• an incursion by a large number of people or things into a place or sphere of activity.
  "stadium guards are preparing for another invasion of fans"""an invasion of tourists"
• an unwelcome intrusion into another's domain.
  
  That's from Google dictionary. 7,000 mostly young males circumventing our immigration laws and borders meet both of those definitions. I doubt that many of these would be illegal aliens "are coming here to murder and rape us all". Nice hyperbolic spin, Trump couldn't have done better, but more likely, they will drive down American workers' pay scales and use social services taxpayers budgeted for Americans.

[canuck]

No but cellphones should be,because 15 people die everyday from distracted driving with them.

But that is different because you cannot attach a right winger did it to them.

Do you not think that it is kinda weird that this is a tragedy but the same amount of people that die everyday from cell phones is concidered a statistic?

Maybe because nobody walks into a synagogue to kill eleven people with a cellphone unless it is linked to a detonator, duh.

[bust]

Have you ever looked up the stats for knife killings in the UK and by law you are banned from carrying one,and have to show identification in order to buy a simple steak knife which is then registered into a database.

You clearly have not.

Trump's knife crime claim: how do the US and UK compare?
https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/05/...nd-uk-compare-

"There were 34 firearm homicides in the US per million of population in 2016, compared with 0.48 shooting-related murders in the UK.

Knife murders are also higher stateside: there were 4.96 homicides “due to knives or cutting instruments” in the US for every million of population in 2016.

In Britain there were 3.26 homicides involving a sharp instrument per million people in the year from April 2016 to March 2017."



More, there is no requirement to register steak knife purchases in the UK. Nor chef's knives, cleavers, or any other kitchen cutlery.

The UK's basic laws on knives
https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

Think back who told you that. They made you a look like a sucker. Consider stop listening to them.

You seem to eat up right wing lies wherever it is you find them. Worse than ignorant, you're misled. And self-sure, you repeat them – even if with your track record it must be a rare fool so foolish to believe you.

I've suggested this before: stick to what you know. Asininity is a bad look.

I'll add to that: try double-checking the lies before you repeat them. If it's what you want to believe, especially be careful. And learn which are trustworthy sources of information.

You say you were smarter than the engineers at Motorola, you can handle the google now can't you?

[canuck]

You clearly have not.

Trump's knife crime claim: how do the US and UK compare?
https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/05/...nd-uk-compare-

"There were 34 firearm homicides in the US per million of population in 2016, compared with 0.48 shooting-related murders in the UK.

Knife murders are also higher stateside: there were 4.96 homicides “due to knives or cutting instruments” in the US for every million of population in 2016.

In Britain there were 3.26 homicides involving a sharp instrument per million people in the year from April 2016 to March 2017."



More, there is no requirement to register steak knife purchases in the UK. Nor chef's knives, cleavers, or any other kitchen cutlery.

The UK's basic laws on knives
https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

Think back who told you that. They made you a look like a sucker. Consider stop listening to them.

You seem to eat up right wing lies wherever it is you find them. Worse than ignorant, you're misled. And self-sure, you repeat them – even if with your track record it must be a rare fool so foolish to believe you.

I've suggested this before: stick to what you know. Asininity is a bad look.

I'll add to that: try double-checking the lies before you repeat them. If it's what you want to believe, especially be careful. And learn which are trustworthy sources of information.

You say you were smarter than the engineers at Motorola, you can handle the google now can't you?

Good advice, bust, but may I suggest another bit?

How about telling him about the spell check while we're at it?

He loves it when we do that. Superfluous he says.

The sub-geniuses at Motorola and Google provide it. It's free.

[Richard]

You clearly have not.

Trump's knife crime claim: how do the US and UK compare?
https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/05/...nd-uk-compare-

"There were 34 firearm homicides in the US per million of population in 2016, compared with 0.48 shooting-related murders in the UK.

Knife murders are also higher stateside: there were 4.96 homicides “due to knives or cutting instruments” in the US for every million of population in 2016.

In Britain there were 3.26 homicides involving a sharp instrument per million people in the year from April 2016 to March 2017."



More, there is no requirement to register steak knife purchases in the UK. Nor chef's knives, cleavers, or any other kitchen cutlery.

The UK's basic laws on knives
https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

Think back who told you that. They made you a look like a sucker. Consider stop listening to them.

You seem to eat up right wing lies wherever it is you find them. Worse than ignorant, you're misled. And self-sure, you repeat them – even if with your track record it must be a rare fool so foolish to believe you.

I've suggested this before: stick to what you know. Asininity is a bad look.

I'll add to that: try double-checking the lies before you repeat them. If it's what you want to believe, especially be careful. And learn which are trustworthy sources of information.

You say you were smarter than the engineers at Motorola, you can handle the google now can't you?

You work hard at missing the point,the problem is,outside of useing google,is that you are stuck with Hillary in 2016.

The year now is 2018,google it.

Knife crime in the UK is up over 40% from 2016 google it.

The mayor of London is on an aggressive knife control program in order to stem the violence. Google it.

They have thier own version of stop and frisk,google it.

Like in Detroit you can either google it or talk to the people that live there and you will get two different versions.

When you become a slave to technology it manlipulates your mind to how and what they want you to believe.

It has zero to do with left wing or right wing,if somebody wants to kill you they are going to,you cannot remove everything from society in order to stop it,how is that war on drugs working out ?

Common sense google it.

Your comment about the Motorola thing shows how little you actually know about the very technology that controls you,so in your rush to discredit me you are the one that really needs to get a clue.

[Richard]

Maybe because nobody walks into a synagogue to kill eleven people with a cellphone unless it is linked to a detonator, duh.

So what is the difference between 15 people killed in one spot and 15 people killed daily across a country,it is still senseless deaths.

The difference is people with cell phones do not want them regulated in order to prevent senseless deaths,the 15 people killed per day is an exceptable number in order to retain the use of them.

[Meddle]

Common sense says NOT to quote and re-quote entire long posts.

Common sense says there are a number of search engines and it isn't wise to promote any one over any other.

[Richard]

^ common sense knows the difference between Hitler and the current president.

[canuck]

So what is the difference between 15 people killed in one spot and 15 people killed daily across a country,it is still senseless deaths.

The difference is people with cell phones do not want them regulated in order to prevent senseless deaths,the 15 people killed per day is an exceptable number in order to retain the use of them.

You put the finger on it or in it as one would say; 15 people per day is an "exceptable number" as opposed to an acceptable one.

But the point is that no one starts out with the given idea that they will kill someone with a phone, unless tied to a remote detonator.

In fact, few people on the Left or Right side of the spectrum in the US or Canada want or ask for an elimination of guns. They want better safeguards and fewer guns of mass destruction; the kind that belong in the hands of military enabled personnel. I am not sure about what you see as a weapon or a neutral object.

Your teapot or your hammer are weapons, you choose the bluntness or the sharpness, the ease and the speed. Whatever you want as a weapon, Richard, go for it.

Now, I can type all the way to the bank on an MK rifle until my fingers come blue form the blueing and the cold steel and still won't get the point across to your hairstyle that it ain't a communication tool; just a dedicated weapon.

[Richard]

^ and like a cell phone it only becomes deadly when used in a in appropriate manner.