When Detroit elected a Marxist, Communist and Socialist....

[Lowell]

And they continue to do it to living anti-communists too: witness the insane demonization of George Soros.

Soros has become code-speak for Jew and as a "globalist" = [insert dog whistle] a part of the international Jewish conspiracy as in 1930's talk.

As for socialism, we have tons of it, starting with the military, which is also an authoritarian form of socialism, where citizens are placed in an obey-or-die servitude and the means of production are monopolized by the state for non-competitive bids by American-only companies.

Then there is the public education system, the roads, most infrastructure, social security, medicare, medicaid, farm subsidies and on and on.

American socialism is deeply embedded and its benefits enjoyed hundreds of millions.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

I'm still confused as to why white people thought CAY was talking about them when he was clearly talking about criminals.

I agree, but don't let misinformation get in the way of truth. He was speaking of all criminals, regardless of race.

[401don]

I agree, but don't let misinformation get in the way of truth. He was speaking of all criminals, regardless of race.

I always thought it was interpreted to mean he was telling all of Detroit's criminals to head for the suburbs.

[EastsideAl]

I always thought it was interpreted to mean he was telling all of Detroit's criminals to head for the suburbs.

That's what CAY actually said. But it was interpreted by far too many as some sort of unambiguous message to white people that they were going to be chased out. And it has gone down in suburban legend that way ever since.

I've always supposed that this was because [[mis)interpreting his words that way confirmed a lot of white folks' racial fears at the time, and served as some additional justification for them to do what they were going to do anyway [[move).

[Honky Tonk]

I always thought it was interpreted to mean he was telling all of Detroit's criminals to head for the suburbs.

For the umpteenth time I'm going to post this:

Myth: He told white people to leave Detroit.

It was an era of rising crime, and Young had made the conduct of the overwhelmingly white Detroit police in the black community a major part of his campaign. Young closed the speech with a warning to both police and criminals.

“We must build a new people-oriented police department. And then you and they can help us to drive the criminals from our streets. I issue open warnings now to all dope pushers, to all rip-off artists, to all muggers: It’s time to leave Detroit. Hit Eight Mile Road!"
Young's command drew extended applause., after which he continued: "And I don’t give a damn if they’re black or white, if they wear Superfly suits or blue uniforms with silver badges. Hit the road!” More extended applause followed.

Most people took Young’s “Hit Eight Mile” admonition as the “get-out-of-town” figure of speech that it was meant to be. But Young’s critics pounced on his words and interpreted them to say he wanted bad guys to invade the suburbs. In any case, while he told some people to leave Detroit that day, it wasn’t white Detroiters, unless they were breaking the law.

Source: Detroit Free Press

[Cincinnati_Kid]

^^ Just what I thought, thanks Honky Tonk.

[Miss Gabrielle]

I haven't seen a Socialist/Communist society succeed anywhere in the world... and where it has been tried and or implemented only poverty, misery and despair remains...
As my Venezuelan coworkers remind everyday at work in Bogota, when the government keeps handing out "free" stuff everyday that's a sure sign of failure down the road....

China seems to be doing ok! Venezuela was hugely corrupt and mismanaged.

[aj3647]

The current administration just passed a law where politicians are barred from lobbying after leaving office,that should remove the incentives to do favors while in office for profit after leaving office.

That's a lie. Trump's "ban" on lobbying only applies for 5 years and only applies to officials lobbying the agency that they worked for [[they are free to lobby any other department or branch of government):
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...s-rules-234318

AND, on top of that, the Trump Administration isn't even bothering to enforce it's own "ban."

https://www.propublica.org/article/t...e-now-lobbying

At least six former Trump officials are already registered lobbyists and many more are lobbying without registering as lobbyists by calling themselves "strategic consultants."

Also, it was never a "law", it was an "ethics pledge" that he made appointees take. It was never truly enforceable and of course the swamp creatures he hired never intended to honor the pledge.

[EastsideAl]

China seems to be doing ok! Venezuela was hugely corrupt and mismanaged.

I find the whole panic on the right about communism and socialism to be very bizarre at a time when the Cold War has been over for nearly 30 years. Especially with the fastest growing economy on earth [[and our #1 trading partner) being a "communist" country, with several "socialist" countries in Europe doing better than we are in most measures of quality of life, and with our president's best overseas buddy being a former KGB agent.

[aj3647]

China is NOT a communist country. They haven't been a communist country for decades. They are a one-party authoritarian state with a partially centrally-planned economy [[it's more of a mix of central planning and capitalism).

China actually has more billionaires than any country on earth, even more than the United States. If China were a communist country, it would have zero billionaires.

Anytime I see anyone using the terms "communism" or "socialism" on the Internet, 98% of the time they are using those terms incorrectly. In fact, I would wager that most of the people using those terms would be wholly unable to even accurately describe what they actually mean without having to look it up on wikipedia first.

[Wesley Mouch]

For the umpteenth time I'm going to post this:

Myth: He told white people to leave Detroit.
...snip...

Most people took Young’s “Hit Eight Mile” admonition as the “get-out-of-town” figure of speech that it was meant to be. But Young’s critics pounced on his words and interpreted them to say he wanted bad guys to invade the suburbs. In any case, while he told some people to leave Detroit that day, it wasn’t white Detroiters, unless they were breaking the law.

Source: Detroit Free Press

I respectfully disagree.

CAY's language was clear. But his intent is what needs to be discussed. As a young, white member of a family of white City employees there was little doubt that Young didn't respect whites. [[I don't blame him, as he was personally the victim of racial discrimination.)

Even as a anti-white Mayor, let's give him the benefit of the doubt. He didn't mean he wanted whites to leave.

In my opinion, most whites took it badly. They may have been wrong about his intent. It may have been the result of manipulation in the media of his words. But the effect is without doubt.

Most whites [[IMO) took it as a demand to leave town.

This was not a minority perception [[IMO).

Young did not much hide his feelings that in matters of housing, business, and employment .... whites need not apply.

The public heard his message -- even if he didn't mean it in those specific words.

[Bham1982]

Young was not an anti-white mayor.

Whites who claimed this were projecting their own biases and trying to justify their abandonment of the city and dehumanization of its people.

[EastsideAl]

China is NOT a communist country. They haven't been a communist country for decades. They are a one-party authoritarian state with a partially centrally-planned economy [[it's more of a mix of central planning and capitalism).

China actually has more billionaires than any country on earth, even more than the United States. If China were a communist country, it would have zero billionaires.

Anytime I see anyone using the terms "communism" or "socialism" on the Internet, 98% of the time they are using those terms incorrectly. In fact, I would wager that most of the people using those terms would be wholly unable to even accurately describe what they actually mean without having to look it up on wikipedia first.

I agree that there is almost nothing about the current Chinese economy that is communist, in the true sense of the term. Even in the political history sense of the term, bent into shape by Soviet and Maoist excesses, the only thing about China that remains "communist" is the centralized authoritarianism and overwhelming bureaucracy that worms its way into almost all activities.

But the single legal ruling party is still called the Communist Party of China, and still puts out a hell of a lot of propaganda about the revolution and the victory of the proletariat. Having spent a fair of time in China, and having a cousin who has lived there for over 20 years now, I can tell you that folks there sure can't stop telling outsiders about the greatness of Chinese communism, the historical glory of Mao, and the wonders of communist egalitarianism [[even as they grumble about the growing inequalities, and happily engage in all sorts of capitalist enterprise).

It's really a weird contradiction. But certainly also far from the communist boogeyman of fevered rightist American fantasies. In fact, most Republicans [[like my cousin) just love doing business there, since authoritarian monopoly capitalism [[and high margins on cheaply produced goods) is in fact their real dream.

[aj3647]

But the single legal ruling party is still called the Communist Party of China,

And the legal name of North Korea is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, which proves nothing except that governments/parties can name themselves whatever they like. Would you describe North Korea as being a democratic republic? It's in the name after all!

China ceased to be a genuine communist country after the death of Mao in 1976. The Communist Party name is more of a historical legacy than anything. There should be no argument that modern China hasn't successfully embraced capitalist principles, just that they have done so under the iron thumb of a one-party authoritarian government.

[Colombian Dan]

China seems to be doing ok! Venezuela was hugely corrupt and mismanaged.

China is an absolute mess.. You don't see too many Mexicans, Russians, Indians or Americans flocking to live in China. Who wants to live under government rules telling you what you can say or post online...

[Colombian Dan]

Soros has become code-speak for Jew and as a "globalist" = [insert dog whistle] a part of the international Jewish conspiracy as in 1930's talk.

As for socialism, we have tons of it, starting with the military, which is also an authoritarian form of socialism, where citizens are placed in an obey-or-die servitude and the means of production are monopolized by the state for non-competitive bids by American-only companies.

Then there is the public education system, the roads, most infrastructure, social security, medicare, medicaid, farm subsidies and on and on.

American socialism is deeply embedded and its benefits enjoyed hundreds of millions.

Soros and his immediate family survived WWII in Nazi occupied Europe because of his family's wealth. Many people have issues with those that survived the Holocaust because of their wealth while others died..

Regarding socialism in the USA, yes it's true, the USA has the most generous social programs; i.e. "free stuff" in the Americas. Thus the reason why nearly all of Latin America wants to live in Gringolandia.
The real lack of a spine belongs to the white liberals of the USA who refuse to put any pressure on the nearly all liley white leaders of Latin America to change from a archaic Spanish form of feudalism to a more pluralistic society. Latin American leaders love to push off their excess low class dark ones onto the USA rather than expand their own economies. This is the real shame of white liberalism in the USA....

[archfan]

Soros and his immediate family survived WWII in Nazi occupied Europe because of his family's wealth. Many people have issues with those that survived the Holocaust because of their wealth while others died...

1. Who exactly is mad about a 15 year old avoiding the Holocaust, other than people who are just mad at Soros?
2. This has nothing to do with the conversation

[Colombian Dan]

1. Who exactly is mad about a 15 year old avoiding the Holocaust, other than people who are just mad at Soros?
2. This has nothing to do with the conversation

I agree wholeheartedly.
The conversation should stay focused on how white liberalism/paternalism destroyed the once wealthiest city in the world.. Detroit. Detroit has not exactly been the bastion of conservative leaders for the past 60 years.
Detroit was destroyed not so much by a changing economic mode but rather destroyed by paternalism promoted by white liberals.
White liberals heavily promoted and advanced the notion that government could substitute the nuclear family.
The black family was utterly destroyed and replaced by government programs such as Head Start, Aid to dependent children [[AFDC), Woman Infants and Children [[WIC).
With these programs in place there was no need to keep the father around.
White liberals promoted their version of paternalism included many Republicans as well; not just Democrats.
It's human nature perhaps to "help" people but many times this "help" ends up doing more harm.
Allowing people to advance at their own pace should be encouraged while getting government out of the way.
There is no reason why Detroit with miles and miles of open space is not one huge open air market with street peddlers selling their wares, fruits and clothes.
Stop criticizing what people can't do and promote what people can do.

[Henry Whalley]

So much history packed into this film..
The more things change the more they stay the same....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzEoyXTf22o

Is DetroitYES supposed to be for nonpolitical discussions only?

[Zacha341]

^ That'd be hard to square considering the impact of politics [[applied to city services for ex.), daily and sometimes hourly within the city proper. The upcoming election will include several local items etc [[incl. the politics of how the ballots will be handled). Not just the presidential vote.

So yes, Politics-To-Policy-To-Personal re. Detroit remains a topic of discussion -- most crucial especially for Detroiters!

Political debate regarding the standing 'status quo' and or the extreme policy pundantry is important reflecting the need for service and infrastructure reform in Detroit for example. Detroiter's must remain unrelenting in ensuring that our humanity remains center and front of all policy going forth! This remains an area for discussion, with civility, and respect.

I think the non-Detroit threads are not to be engaged in further.

[Meddle]

Is DetroitYES supposed to be for nonpolitical discussions only?

Any special reason you bumped a nearly two YEAR old thread for this comment?

[Zacha341]

^ Considering how far some factions of the far left [[no, I did NOT say traditional liberals) have swung [[communist) this thread is actually apropo as to how those influences could impact Detroit, socially and votewise.

[Henry Whalley]

Apropos or no, I just want to know the rules for posting here. Some sites prohibit political crap, some sites allow intelligent and respectful discussions, while in others it's anything goes.

I've been going through what's been posted in the past trying to get a flavor. Also, I want to avoid starting a thread if one already exists.

[Wheels]

Any special reason you bumped a nearly two YEAR old thread for this comment?

Do you have to bash anyone with interest in old threads? If you are so against old threads don’t click on them!

[Danny]

Is DetroitYES supposed to be for nonpolitical discussions only?

Detroit politics is very important in discussion forum. Without it how will our leaders will do in Detroit business?