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  1. #1

    Default When Detroit elected a Marxist, Communist and Socialist....

    So much history packed into this film..
    The more things change the more they stay the same....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzEoyXTf22o

  2. #2
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    Default

    Except Detroit never did any of these things, and there's no chance of Detroit doing any of these things anytime in the near future.

    The same people always screaming about socialism (which doesn't exist anywhere in the U.S., and has no chance of existing) have no problem goose-stepping alongside the quasi-fascist in the White House. The existential threat to America is internal, and present.

  3. #3

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    I haven't seen a Socialist/Communist society succeed anywhere in the world... and where it has been tried and or implemented only poverty, misery and despair remains...
    As my Venezuelan coworkers remind everyday at work in Bogota, when the government keeps handing out "free" stuff everyday that's a sure sign of failure down the road....

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bham1982 View Post
    Except Detroit never did any of these things, and there's no chance of Detroit doing any of these things anytime in the near future.

    The same people always screaming about socialism (which doesn't exist anywhere in the U.S., and has no chance of existing) have no problem goose-stepping alongside the quasi-fascist in the White House. The existential threat to America is internal, and present.
    Young was supposedly CPUSA member.

  5. #5

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    Coleman A Young and Walter Reuther were both members of the CPUSA before WWII.....

  6. #6

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    Awesome! Thanks for the amazing find. Yeah, Detroit's great failures are much more a indictment on free market/capitalist and neoliberal forces. Suburbanization, de-industrialization, segregation.

    CAY might've been a communist before, but he was buddy buddy with many business leaders.

    Power to the people!

  7. #7

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    CAY might have wanted to be a socialist, but he had zero power to appropriate the "means of production" for the government. In the e3nd, he sold out to capitalism in exchange for bribes to feather his own nest.

    Detroit's failures were that they did not recognoze the economic trend of suburbanization and seek to counter it. "Just hit 8 Mile" had an additional kicker of "Take your earning power with you".

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colombian Dan View Post
    Coleman A Young and Walter Reuther were both members of the CPUSA before WWII.....
    Walter Reuther in fact actively pushed the Communists, and eventually almost everyone left of reformist New Deal Democrats, out of the UAW leadership. He was one of the founders of the staunchly anti-Communist Americans for Democratic Action in 1947.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colombian Dan View Post
    I haven't seen a Socialist/Communist society succeed anywhere in the world
    WRT to the ex-communist countries of Central/Eastern Europe pre-1989, I'd agree with you.

    But what about Canada? They effectively nationalized the health-insurance industry 50-60 years ago. Is that socialist? True they haven't gone full public-ownership-of the means-of-production, but then who in the U.S. today advocates for such things? Even Bernie Sanders would be viewed as a pale imitation by such as Eugene Debs.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Don K View Post
    WRT to the ex-communist countries of Central/Eastern Europe pre-1989, I'd agree with you.

    But what about Canada? They effectively nationalized the health-insurance industry 50-60 years ago. Is that socialist? True they haven't gone full public-ownership-of the means-of-production, but then who in the U.S. today advocates for such things? Even Bernie Sanders would be viewed as a pale imitation by such as Eugene Debs.
    Canada, like Britain, instituted national health care shortly after WW2. It's simply a common sense policy that all industrialized countries outside of the USA would see as essential an entitlement as old age security. Hardly a step toward socialism.

  11. #11

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    Want to stop socialism? Stop making capitalism look so fucking bad.

    I agree that socialism is a bad idea. But I also think that having a a deranged lunatic in the White House is a bad idea.

    Someone like Gretchen Whitmer is a hell of a lot closer to the political center than any Republican these days. Since when does fiscal conservativism mean blowing the deficit wide open, anyway?

    I don't like the Democrats but the Republicans are absolutely off the rails, slobbing the knob of a madman as he plunges the country into chaos and division. Most of the country is tired of their shit too and doesn't give a damn about this crusty Cold War bullshit about some socialist boogeyman. Like who? Fucking Brezhnev? One trillion dollars in student loan debt. A broken healthcare system. Those are actual problems.

  12. #12

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    Biggest problem in the US are the two parties. We are stuck in perpetual fighting, and focus on making the other party look bad. Congress really isn't concerned with the American people, they're only concerned about your vote and their career (meaning money), not all of them, but most of them. Yet we will have voters vote straight Rep or Dem, and that just fuels the politicians current behavior. This country needs to judge people as individuals, not their political, religion, race, gender, zip codes or whatever else affiliations lame brains want to make quick judgements on. If you're a Republican, read up on the Dem candidates, and vice-versa.

  13. #13

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    The current administration just passed a law where politicians are barred from lobbying after leaving office,that should remove the incentives to do favors while in office for profit after leaving office.

    The two party system is there to keep checks and balances,in spite of all of the infighting,it still works,and when the infighting stops is when people should be really concerned.

    The alternative is a one party system or dictatorship which will never happen.

    The federal government cannot judge people as individuals,they are there looking at the bigger picture which trickles down to the states then to the local government who also cannot look at individuals but makes decisions that directly effect individuals.
    Last edited by Richard; October-28-18 at 09:40 PM.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermod View Post
    CAY might have wanted to be a socialist, but he had zero power to appropriate the "means of production" for the government. In the e3nd, he sold out to capitalism in exchange for bribes to feather his own nest.

    Detroit's failures were that they did not recognoze the economic trend of suburbanization and seek to counter it. "Just hit 8 Mile" had an additional kicker of "Take your earning power with you".
    Do you remember or know exactly when/where that "hit 8 Mile" remark was made?

    I recall at my 1979 WSU Commencement at Cobo Hall that Young gave the commencement speech. I don't remember what he said because we were all to busy there on the main floor talking among ourselves in our caps & gown to find out who had a job, and if they could get us one, too.

    After it was over, it was tradition to walk down to the river in your cap & gown and get your picture taken with Windsor there in the back ground....real nice. Only my parents were FURIOUS and made me return my cap & gown immediately so we could "get the hell out of here, like the mayor said" (as my dad said) and no photo by the river for old kathy2trips!

    I always wondered if that was the speech. If not I wonder what was said. I never could find a copy of it online.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke09 View Post
    Biggest problem in the US are the two parties. We are stuck in perpetual fighting, and focus on making the other party look bad. Congress really isn't concerned with the American people, they're only concerned about your vote and their career (meaning money), not all of them, but most of them. Yet we will have voters vote straight Rep or Dem, and that just fuels the politicians current behavior. This country needs to judge people as individuals, not their political, religion, race, gender, zip codes or whatever else affiliations lame brains want to make quick judgements on. If you're a Republican, read up on the Dem candidates, and vice-versa.

    Nice theory, but that will never happen. This country is ruled by greed, on both sides of the aisle....But the guy in office now, is the biggest problem facing this country. His "Divide and Conquer" mentality along with his divisiveness I believe is part of the reason, these radicals are coming out the woodwork committing all these mass shootings. He fires up his base with rhetoric and propaganda b.s. , and they feel the need to follow his lead. It's sad what he's doing to the U.S. Just rename it "The Divided States of America"
    Last edited by Cincinnati_Kid; October-29-18 at 01:15 AM.

  16. #16

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    This is an old DetroitYes thread about Coleman Young's inaugural
    address:

    https://www.detroityes.com/mb/showth...ugural-Address

    The address does have the "Eight Mile" statement in it.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke09 View Post
    Congress really isn't concerned with the American people, they're only concerned about your vote and their career (meaning money),
    Welcome my son, welcome to the machine
    How did you vote?
    It's alright we told you how to vote
    You voted for the big star

  18. #18

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    I'm still confused as to why white people thought CAY was talking about them when he was clearly talking about criminals.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by dtowncitylover View Post
    CAY might've been a communist before, but he was buddy buddy with many business leaders.
    Interestingly, you could say the same about Sheila Cockrel (nee Murphy). I can't speak for Ken Cockrel Sr., as he died decades ago. I voted for his son who is very moderate and a very nice person.

    I'm not a CAY fan, but I'd say he did what he could - I believe, rather poorly - with what dwindling resources he had. Had the city not been on a downward spiral the results may have been a little different, but probably not dramatically.

    So much for all the stink about ideology.

  20. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hermod View Post
    CAY might have wanted to be a socialist, but he had zero power to appropriate the "means of production" for the government. In the e3nd, he sold out to capitalism in exchange for bribes to feather his own nest.
    The fatal flaw of socialism (and communism) isn't the idea. Its a fine idea. Its the implementation. History shows that good intentions of the 'expert planners' necessary for a state-run economy find ways of 'feathering their own nests'.

    CAY, as a victim of white supremacy*, felt that a communist state would 'correct' the errors of capitalism, and 'empower' blacks. I don't think he ever changed his mind. He just additionally decided that he needed more cash to maintain his political station, so bribes and graft were just necessary tools to achieve justice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hermod View Post
    Detroit's failures were that they did not recognoze the economic trend of suburbanization and seek to counter it. "Just hit 8 Mile" had an additional kicker of "Take your earning power with you".
    Again, there's an important truth here that people enthralled with socialism and the Bernie Sanders of the world need to heed.

    CAY believed that Detroit's economy engine would continue to run even as he chased white power away. He was wrong. They took most economic development with him, leaving him more dependant on handouts from friends in high places. Thus was born Poletown, Joe Louis (needed for the Republic National Convention), the People Mover, Washington Boulevard re-design, etc.

    Lesson... economic power is hard to create, and requires energy to maintain. Destruction of the existing order is a bad first step to equality.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastsideAl View Post
    Walter Reuther in fact actively pushed the Communists, and eventually almost everyone left of reformist New Deal Democrats, out of the UAW leadership. He was one of the founders of the staunchly anti-Communist Americans for Democratic Action in 1947.
    It is very telling that the far-right is now so unabashed in their lying that they will go so far as labeling someone who was an ardent anti-communist as a communist simply because they were left of themselves on the political spectrum.

  22. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch View Post
    The fatal flaw of socialism (and communism) isn't the idea. Its a fine idea. Its the implementation.
    No, it's a fine idea if you have a very small community with a very simple economy. It works great if you are a frontier commune, or a small village in the middle of nowhere. The problem is it doesn't scale.

    Here is the problem with planned economies. Imagine a giant chart with all the stuff you need to make in a modern economy. Band-aids, electricity, steel, bolts, nails, rubber, cotton, wool, fertilizer, apples, concrete, sheetrock, 2x4s, rare earth metals, glass, houses, loudspeakers, pencils, coffee, paint, scalpels, pants, bicycles... you name it. Now imagine all the inputs and outputs for all of these things. To make steel you need water, scrap steel, iron ore, natural gas and coal. To mine coal you need machines. To build those machines you need electricity and steel. To make electricity you need to mine coal. Miners need food. To refrigerate food you need electricity. You have, literally, millions of arrows going in every direction and looping back in on themselves.

    In a planned socialist economy, someone (workers councils, ostensibly) has to sit there and figure out what needs to be made. And there's the problem. When you have that many nodes on a graph the solution is nearly impossible. To know how much steel to make you need to know all the things that are going to be made that need steel. To know how much coal to mine you need to know how much stuff is going to need coal, including steel. The needs loop back on themselves in insanely complicated ways. You can never get an optimal answer. The best you can do is guess. Which is why shortages of nearly everything are rampant in socialist economies.

    Market economies get around this using pricing as information to the market. Price goes up, more gets made. Price goes down, less gets made. There are all kinds of issues and problems with this, which is why the field of economics exists.
    Last edited by JBMcB; October-29-18 at 07:09 PM.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by poobert View Post
    It is very telling that the far-right is now so unabashed in their lying that they will go so far as labeling someone who was an ardent anti-communist as a communist simply because they were left of themselves on the political spectrum.
    And they continue to do it to living anti-communists too: witness the insane demonization of George Soros.

  24. #24

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    ^ well when an entire country decides to ban your actions he is clearly not on everybody’s Christmas list.

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colombian Dan View Post
    I haven't seen a Socialist/Communist society succeed anywhere in the world...
    Norway, Denmark, Finland, and Sweden seem to have socialism figured out. They are democratic socialist societies, with high taxes, strong social programs, and the happiest people on the planet. It seems that low taxes and cheap consumer goods aren't the keys to happiness that conservatives would have us believe.

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