Michigan Under Fire For Overrunning Practice Time Allotment

[SCS100]

http://www.freep.com/article/2009082...s--players-say

Ok, now that posting the article is over with, I have a few questions of my own. Why in the world is the Freep investigating a college football team? Even though I will be attending Michigan next year as a freshman, I would have serious doubts about investigations being conducted almost anywhere including Michigan State and Ohio State. And why are we so concerned about practice schedules when players are already given preferential treatment anyways? And why does the Freep do a full blown investigation with Michigan, but just quickly asks three State players what they thought about their program? Even with players stating that they overran, something just doesn't seem right about how this process played out, at least to me.

I would not be surprised if Rodriguez overran the practice time, but I would also bet that most other coaches [[ahem, Urban Meyer) overrun their allotted time during the week. Something is very fishy here...

[Crystal]

Whatever the reasons, the desire to win in athletics is great. That goes for recreational, high school, college, and professional sports.

The news is filled with stories about performance-enhancing drugs, cheating, gambling, violence, and rules violations of every sort: eligibility, academic, residency, recruitment, practice time, off-season contact, and many other requirements.

Remember the Michigan basketball scandal? I don't recall how many games or titles were vacated because of that. Even at the high school level, rules violations result in the forfeiture of games [[or sometimes entire seasons) all the time.

As the mom of a high school and college distance runner, and the wife of a sports official, I can tell you that MHSAA and NCAA rules are in place for a reason.

[the rock]

You mean we will have to forfeit our three victories from last year?

[Ray1936]

Why in the world should I give a care about anything about U of M? I didn't go there; no one in my family ever had anything to do with it; and I don't even know any one associated with that school.

Accordingly, I never have, and never will, much give a rat's behind about any contest involving them. That would include the NCAA penalizing them either lightly or heavily.

Never could understand why other Michiganians who never had anything to do with UM get so worked up over them. I mean, like, YAWN.

[jerrytimes]

Sounds like RichRod has some crybaby players on his squad

[bailey]

[quote]Ok, now that posting the article is over with, I have a few questions of my own.

Why in the world is the Freep investigating a college football team?

Uh because it's a multi-million dollar a year earner for the state's largest public university. plus, it apparently sells papers.

Even though I will be attending Michigan next year as a freshman, I would have serious doubts about investigations being conducted almost anywhere including Michigan State and Ohio State.

So cheating to win is not a problem for you? Why is that? Allegations of booster payments to players should be ignored too if they were to surface? shady recruiting should be ignored? Why is this rule to be ignored while others are to result in sanctions?

And why are we so concerned about practice schedules when players are already given preferential treatment anyways?

The point of schedules are to protect these students from being over burdened and overworked by an irresponsible coaching staff such that even the pretense they are students first is unsustainable. Does UM have student athletes, or minor league football players that live in the dorms? As a future student, it's a question to ask. If Tate Forcier is sitting next to you in econ 101 and you are to work on a group project, do you care that he is going to be at practice for 12 hours on Sunday and for 30 hours each week? Or, the more common example, do you care that he schedule makes it impossible for them to be students at all? Doesn't it piss you off that UM claims it's standards apply to all, but then, obviously they don't?

And why does the Freep do a full blown investigation with Michigan, but just quickly asks three State players what they thought about their program?

Because they are rival institutions of similar size and who play in the same conference and State? Or, perhaps MSU plays by the [[really easy to play by) rules. Kinda obvious? no? It's sort of like when Bernie Madoff gets caught for running a ponzi scheme the reporting paper will then generally turn to someone who is not committing fraud to comment what Madoffs crimes were and why there are rules against such behavior.

Even with players stating that they overran, something just doesn't seem right about how this process played out, at least to me.

Yeah, it's called "win at all costs" mentality. Generally one would have to hear bloviating from innumerable walmart wolverines about how the "michigan way" is different from those diploma mills in the SEC. Well, now we know it's not. The incident just shows how little dickrod feels the rules should apply. When the small rules don't matter, the big ones seem less and less important. As for what doesnt feel right? It's called "selling out." hopefully the 3-9 season last year was worth it.

would not be surprised if Rodriguez overran the practice time, but I would also bet that most other coaches [[ahem, Urban Meyer) overrun their allotted time during the week. Something is very fishy here...

Again, prior to DickRod, using Urban Meyer as a reference would only be as an insult of epic proportions to the UM program, not as justification for the programs rule breaking.

Sounds like RichRod has some crybaby players on his squad

Yup, he needs to weed out the kids that came to be students and athletes...they get their free tuition and their general studies majors, as long as they keep their nose clean and don't get injured, they'll get the diploma. They should just stfu.

Why in the world should I give a care about anything about U of M? I didn't go there; no one in my family ever had anything to do with it; and I don't even know any one associated with that school.

Easy solution, don't read the article and don't waste time reading thread and commenting about it?

[SCS100]

My reaction to having doubts about investigations at MSU or OSU would reflect on the paper doing the investigation, not the team itself. Honestly, it would not surprise me if any of this were to be proven true.
As for booster payments, I would hope someone first hits USC really hard for that, but I would still be upset. I never said to ignore the rules, I'm saying that a paper should not launch a full blown investigation into a college football program, money or not. A couple of little things called ethics and morals seem to have been forgotten in the press these days. [[Not just here)
I'm sorry, but quickly asking three MSU players if they violated any rules really isn't good enough, at least for me. And when I said how the process played out, I meant the paper's investigation. Read more carefully.
As for the practice time itself, I would much rather have the players earn the entire scholarship by practicing as much as they can, as most players who earn scholarships to school probably don't deserve one period [[Winston, Feagin, etc.)
And as for Meyer, if you have ever read anything about Florida's program, it's something like the one at Michigan. SI did an article on it a while ago. I'm not using anything to justify Michigan cheating, and I never said I agreed with them overrunning time, I'm just saying that we aren't the only ones who have done this and you could probably look at any school in the country and find the same results.
And by the way, jackass he may be, but calling Rich Rod "Dickrod" really makes you look good.

[bailey]

[quote=SCS100;62557]

My reaction to having doubts about investigations at MSU or OSU would reflect on the paper doing the investigation, not the team itself.

Huh? because the Freep reported it automatically untrue or somehow unfair?

As for booster payments, I would hope someone first hits USC really hard for that, but I would still be upset. I never said to ignore the rules, I'm saying that a paper should not launch a full blown investigation into a college football program, money or not.

So, news papers should not do investigative journalism and just leave it to the NCAA? You just said the NCAA isnt doing anything about the USC allegations...why would the NCAA act here? But again, to follow your logic, should the Freep have not dug around in the Kwame mess too? Just left it up to the DPD or the FBI to get around to it? Somehow I doubt if it was MSU you'd be so deferential to the 'program'.

A couple of little things called ethics and morals seem to have been forgotten in the press these days. [[Not just here)

Apparently at UM as well. These rules are fairly easy to play by. dickrod has allegedly decided he needn't play by them. Fine. Just don't talk about the "UM way" as if it's anything different than the diploma mills in the SEC.

I'm sorry, but quickly asking three MSU players if they violated any rules really isn't good enough, at least for me. And when I said how the process played out, I meant the paper's investigation. Read more carefully.

MSU is not the subject of the investigation. They went to the nearest similarly situated university and asked some players. Seems fairly standard in light of the fact MSU players are not the ones coming forward to expose the program's rule breaking. If they had be reversed, it would have been UM players... and no doubt a lengthy post script about how 'clean' UM is.

As for the practice time itself, I would much rather have the players earn the entire scholarship by practicing as much as they can, as most players who earn scholarships to school probably don't deserve one period [[Winston, Fagin, etc.)

Why make them go to class at all then? Just drop the charade and pay them a salary. If you don't think they are already earning that schollie without the ridiculous schedule...well, I think you'll re-evaluate that position come second semester.
Faegin? Really, who recruited him to go to UM?

And as for Meyer, if you have ever read anything about Florida's program, it's something like the one at Michigan. SI did an article on it a while ago. I'm not using anything to justify Michigan cheating, and I never said I agreed with them overrunning time, I'm just saying that we aren't the only ones who have done this and you could probably look at any school in the country and find the same results.

USC and OSU aren't the only schools accused of paying players. Florida and FSU aren't the only teams that ignore academics, lock players in weight rooms until they puke all for athletic success. All I am noting is there was a time UM, in the very recent past, claimed to be different. as I said...apparently those days are over.

And by the way, jackass he may be, but calling Rich Rod "Dickrod" really makes you look good.

dick is not short for richard?

[firstandten]

Even though I really have nothing to go by and we need to see how this year goes, I think RichRod won't make it at Michigan.

I think RichRod made a mistake coming into Michigan, Carr left him in pretty good shape and all he needed to do was build on what was already there while slowly putting in his system and players. Instead he did a 180 ran kids off and just didn't seem to care about the current traditions and culture of the football program. The culture he is putting in consist of talented but kids of questionable character[[you can call them second chance kids), plus he seems to go right to the line with NCAA rules.

At least Carr made a pretense that the football players were student-athletes, under RichRod there is no pretense, you are there to play football period and if you happen to get an degree good for you just don't let it get in the way of practice, weight room and film time.

I bet that others in Ann Arbor feel the same and RichRod will need to watch his back from now on.

I think the scrutiny will be too much for him and he will eventually be fired or he will leave.

[vetalalumni]

Why in the world should I give a care about anything about U of M? I didn't go there; no one in my family ever had anything to do with it; and I don't even know any one associated with that school.

Accordingly, I never have, and never will, much give a rat's behind about any contest involving them. That would include the NCAA penalizing them either lightly or heavily.

Never could understand why other Michiganians who never had anything to do with UM get so worked up over them. I mean, like, YAWN.

Your perspective regarding Wolverine sports is understandable. Having heard variations on your views for many years, let me provide my perspective.

Michiganians should not be faulted for not sharing the enthusiasm held by fans of Wolverine football. However, [[I) just note the evident enthusiasm people have for other entertainment venues of thier choice. Be it Baseball, NASCAR, Hockey, Golf, or the Olympics. Even "Reality" TV, and most TV and movies in general.

Differently, maybe the general public [[especially in Michigan) should have some concern on principle about these allegged rules violations.

For some fans like myself, Wolverine football specifically provides a touchstone for my past. Lifetime fans of the Tigers, Red Wings, Pistons, Shock, Eagles [[EMU), Broncos [[WMU), Spartans, and the CMU teams find values in these investments.

[SCS100]

Ok, first of all, I never said that everything the Freep reported was false. I just said that I wouldn't necessarily trust everything that I saw in any particular paper. Where did I specify the Freep? Have you missed the fact that I've stated that I believe what they are alleging is true? I meant any newspaper in the country, not just here. Yes, I might be a bit more harsh considering it is the school I am attending, but I would still wonder what is going on with the press if OSU or MSU were investigated. Don't lump me in with fans who despise MSU or OSU on principle.

As for the Freep investigating Kwame, hey, it was a public official misusing civic funds and lying under oath. Go for it. I'm just saying don't try and investigate a college sports team when you could do some real good in the world. Why not expose someone closer to home? That doesn't have to be sports related.

I'll concede the point on MSU, your argument seems fair enough, although I think that interviewing West Virginia might have been a better idea. I would definitely not follow with a post of how clean Michigan is though. Both schools have issues and we all know it.

As for your ethics response, nice red herring. I said press, not Michigan football. Michigan has issues, but that was not the topic. And I have never said anything about the U-M way, nor did I say that they were innocent.

I agree with what you have said about Florida, FSU, OSU, and USC. Maybe the time has ended, I was just responding to what you said about fans possibly criticizing Meyer a couple of years ago.

As for scholarships, if they are in school, then they should go to class. If they don't like what is happening, then they can leave and either drop the scholarship, or transfer. No one needs to complain about getting a free ride and having to work for it.

And finally, you know what I meant about Rich Rod. Don't try and avoid that.

My point overall is that I just don't believe that newspapers need to look into these things when there is plenty else going on to look at. Investigate something that actually matters, not some team going over a limit in practice hours. That goes for all schools, including rivals. And don't think that I worship Michigan football. For me, it's go to a game, have some fun, and hope they win. If they don't, then oh well, maybe next time. And if anything else happens [[however minor it may be), then Rodriguez needs to go, and fast.

And Vetal, excellent post.

[vetalalumni]

dick is not short for richard?

There is a joke in the sentence above. Someone witty and more courageous than I might post it.

[SCS100]

There is a joke in the sentence above. Someone witty and more courageous than I might post it.

Umm, is there any way to make it clear that I did not post that? Although nice eye Vetal, I did indeed get a laugh out of that.

[vetalalumni]

Umm, is there any way to make it clear that I did not post that?

Oooooops! Correction has been made [[to my post # 12)

[bailey]

There is a joke in the sentence above. Someone witty and more courageous than I might post it.

Nah, let's just leave it hanging.

As for scholarships, if they are in school, then they should go to class. If they don't like what is happening, then they can leave and either drop the scholarship, or transfer. No one needs to complain about getting a free ride and having to work for

A bit contradictory no? If you are in school you need to go to class, but we're going to make it nearly impossible for you to attend class in any meaningful way as you're required to go to "voluntary" practice for 40- 50hours a week...and that is in the "off season". . It's the point of the rule. If there are no restrictions, they might as well just stop pretending these kids are students.

What I'm trying to point out is that; yes, every individual who wants to be great, will put in more than the 20 hours allowed. The issue, that I think speaks to a larger character flaw in the Coach and the regime, is that by having coaching/quality control [[or whatever euphemism they choose to try and call them somethign other than assistant coaches) staff run these "voluntary" sessions and by dancing all around the rule with these marathon Sunday sessions, they violated the letter.. or at best, the intent of the rule. But hey, I hope they keep it up. a year of running it dickrod's way took the team from bowl win over florida to 3-9 season and a long x-mas break.

My point overall is that I just don't believe that newspapers need to look into these things when there is plenty else going on to look at. Investigate something that actually matters, not some team going over a limit in practice hours.

The freep also broke the Webber/Martin story that resulted in what is the largest cash for players scandal in NCAA history. That debacle started off with a little investigative reporting about a flipped Ford explorer and it's occupants. Should they have not done that story either?

Is it Pulitzer material? no. Is NCAA rules violations being alleged by players who go the press because they are reputedly afraid of reprisals of public interest. I think so. especially when it's at the state's "premiere" university.

And p.s to dickrod.... .there is no crying in football.

[SCS100]

Vetal, I had the same issue earlier with one of your posts, so don't worry. There's something wrong with the quoting system.

Bailey, I can accept your point on scholarships and take it for what it's worth. I'm just stating my viewpoint. And as for the Ed Martin fiasco, I would say that taking money from boosters is more important than overrunning practice time. But hey, take it for what it's worth. It's just my opinion. We can just agree to disagree on some things.

[vetalalumni]

Yeah, the [[near) crying does not sit to well. Somehow verklempt toughness is a bit odd.

Talk amongst yourselves. I'll give you a topic. The Big Ten is neither big nor ten. Discuss.

[Danny]

University of Michigan Football program is finished. YAY!

Go green, Go Spartans, Go State!

[firstandten]

The more I read and hear about this I'm convinced that RichRod isn't for long at AA. I think its pretty clear that a large segment of people connected to the program don't want him here and they are going to stab him in the back and throw him under the bus at every opportunity.

Now I happen to think RichRod walks down the shady side of the street at times like most big time college coaches but the difference is that people in the program won't have his back. Now I don't believe Lloyd would do something like this but even if he did you wouldn't find people dropping dimes on him like RichRod

My prediction, either he goes to a decent bowl game this year and a BCS bowl game next year or he is gone! If he doesn't make it to a bowl game this game this year he is gone !

[vetalalumni]

Yeah, the [[near) crying does not sit to well. Somehow verklempt toughness is a bit odd.

My post above was stated after only reading the transcript and commentary. My initial impressions were that this was selfishly all about RR. The video provides additional insight. After watching a couple of player comments in the video, it seems possible these events could charge up the team emotionally for the better [[in terms of prospective wins). This said being cognizant of the emotion factor among college football success.