The Honduran Elephant In The Room

[Richard]

Totaly different scenarios,we in essence fought the Indians for the land and designated lands to them for thier resettlement.

You guys compareing it as the same as the Hondurans is saying that they are coming to take our land and should be dealt with accordingly as a conquering force.

[Jimaz]

...But remember that the braves were confronted by ... smallpox.

And that was real smallpox, not the imaginary kind.

Biological warfare during the Siege of Fort Pitt

This event is well known for the documented instances of biological warfare. British officers, including the top British commanding generals, ordered, sanctioned, paid for and conducted the use of smallpox against the Native Americans. As described by one historian, "there is no doubt that British military authorities approved of attempts to spread smallpox among the enemy", and "it was deliberate British policy to infect the indians with smallpox".

In this instance, as recorded in his journal by sundries trader and militia Captain William Trent, on June 24, 1763, dignitaries from the Delaware tribe met with Fort Pitt officials, warned them of "great numbers of Indians" coming to attack the fort, and pleaded with them to leave the fort while there was still time. But the commander of the fort refused to abandon the fort. Instead, the British gave as gifts two blankets, one silk handkerchief and one linen from the smallpox hospital, to two Delaware delegates after the parley, a principal warrior named Turtleheart, and Maumaultee, a Chief. The tainted gifts were, according to their inventory accounts, given to the Indian dignitaries "to Convey the Smallpox to the Indians"

[oladub]

You don't think "Trump could say with certainty" that the caravan harbors a disease that was eradicated 30 years ago? Then either he's a moron or you are. I will say with absolute 100% certainty that the caravan doesn't have smallpox. Why? Because smallpox was eradicated...30 years ago. So yeah, I think that's about as definitive as you can get on something. Hey way to take a stand though, so brave of you. "can't say with certainty that the caravan is carrying smallpox", I mean, that just says it all right there.

Hey I heard that the migrant caravan might have Voldemort and Sauron from Lord of the Rings in it too. And Darth Vader. And it's carrying the Zombie plague from the Walking Dead. But I will admit that I cannot say with certainty that they are in the caravan.

How many of those individuals illegally entered this country through the Southern border? Answer: zero. In fact, almost all if not all of the individuals on that list entered this country LEGALLY, through a port of entry. So what exactly is your point here? What does that have to do with the migrant caravan? Now you're just going to conflate legal and illegal immigration together?

Why don't you just man up and have the balls to admit that you hate all immigrants, all of them, regardless of how they come into this country? That you oppose ALL immigration, not just the illegal variety? Because the only way to ensure that no immigrant ever commits a crime, not even a single one, ever, is to just not have any immigrants at all. And I get the feeling that's ultimately what you want, sealed borders, no immigration.

Aj, I wrote, "Facts are good. I don't think that Trump could say with certainty that the 'caravan' harbors smallpox or ISIS. However, no one can prove the caravan doesn't contain infectious diseases." Note that I agreed with you that "facts are good". If you can find where I disagree "that the caravan harbors a disease that was eradicated 30 years ago?", please point it out. Either you are having a rough time with reading comprehension this evening or, more likely, trying to spin my answer. I no more claimed that smallpox still existed than you claimed these caravans and third world migrants have all been vaccinated and don't harbor any diseases.

Neither did I suggest that "many of those individuals illegally entered this country through the Southern border." Again, you are distorting or spinning as is your style. I was responding to your post #96 in which you wrote that there was not a "shred of fucking evidence, that there were ISIS terrorists in the migrant caravan" in post 96. My Reuters link pointed out that German intelligence claims ISIS did stream some terrorists in with refugees. I also posted a list of terrorists who were either refugees or their children in the US. You are welcome to suggest that these refugees include no terrorists. My comment was that it was better to error on the side of caution and not take the chance. Back when Democrats sided with Americans, FDR ended immigration from all Axis countries when Pearl Harbor was attacked.

Are you jealous that I have balls? Here, I'll be less than P.C. as you are unable. Our immigration rate is too high. The New York Times says that the U.S. now is 13.9% foreign born. That's the highest percentage since 1910. That's extreme. No wonder American wages are stagnant. Unlike you, I don't represent the status quo and have little to gain by suppressing wages. I even buy GM and Ford products not because they are the best but because I grew up in Detroit. Where did I write that I opposed immigration? One of my parents and all four of my grandparents were immigrants. I oppose excessive legal immigration and all illegal immigration. You were wrong in guessing that I opposed "ALL immigration". Article 1, Section 8 gives Congress the power to establish "an uniform naturalization"; not one naturalization process for legal immigrants and another for illegal aliens. Unlike some here, I also oppose economic invasions, I already provided Google dictionary's definitions of "invasion". Congress and the President each have the Constitutional power and duty to prevent invasions. Democrats and their wormy lawyers will probably intervene as usual siding with the invaders and their profiteering future employers.

[Zacha341]

UPDATES:

Honduran Caravan Class Action Says Pleas for Asylum Unfairly Denied

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...fairly-denied/

Caravan migrants rest in Mexico City, some deterred by U.S. hostility

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1NB2X7

[Meddle]

Aj, I wrote "Facts are good. I don't think that Trump could say with certainty that the 'caravan' harbors smallpox or ISIS. However, no one can prove the caravan doesn't contain infectious diseases." Note that I agreed with you that "facts are good". If you can find where I disagree "that the caravan harbors a disease that was eradicated 30 years ago?", please point it out. Either you are having a rough time with reading comprehension this evening or, more likely, trying to spin my answer. I no more claimed that smallpox still existed than you claimed these caravans and third world migrants have all been vaccinated and don't harbor any diseases.

Are you jealous that I have balls? Here, I'll be less than P.C. as you are unable. Our immigration rate is too high. The New York Times says that the U.S. now is 13.9% foreign born. That's the highest percentage since 1910.

Even mentioning a disease that no longer exists [[outside of a few tightly controlled specimens in labs) in that context implies a belief that they might have some.

The US population is nearly 100% foreign born since very few can trace their lineage prior to 1600 or so. We are almost all the result of invading angry white men.

[Richard]

We are also enjoying the freedoms that the angry white man,alongside the angry black man,the angry Hispanics,the angry American Indian,etc. sacrificed thier lives for.

What a difference 200 years makes.

[aj3647]

Aj, I wrote, "Facts are good. I don't think that Trump could say with certainty that the 'caravan' harbors smallpox or ISIS. However, no one can prove the caravan doesn't contain infectious diseases." Note that I agreed with you that "facts are good". If you can find where I disagree "that the caravan harbors a disease that was eradicated 30 years ago?", please point it out. Either you are having a rough time with reading comprehension this evening or, more likely, trying to spin my answer.

YOU said: "I don't think that Trump could say with certainty that the 'caravan' harbors smallpox or ISIS.

to which I said: "You don't think "Trump could say with certainty" that the caravan harbors a disease that was eradicated 30 years ago? Then either he's a moron or you are."

Dude, maybe you need to learn how to read. I NEVER SAID that YOU believed the caravan was carrying smallpox, but rather I spoke of your characterization of what you think TRUMP believes. Get it now? It's not hard if you know what words mean, which I suspect you don't. If you think Trump cannot "say with certainty" that the caravan is or isn't carrying smallpox, then you are indeed calling the President a moron because no intelligent person should have any doubt about that. If the President is certain that there is no smallpox in the caravan and you believe he has doubts, then you are the moron. So which is it, oladub? Has to be one or the other, based on your own words.

Are you jealous that I have balls? Here, I'll be less than P.C. as you are unable. Our immigration rate is too high. The New York Times says that the U.S. now is 13.9% foreign born. That's the highest percentage since 1910. That's extreme.

Oh, I'm not jealous of whatever laughable thing exists between your legs. In fact, I'm starting to see why you hate immigrants: You're an Incel. And very likely, you scapegoat immigrant and minority men for the fact that no white women will consensually touch you unless you pay her first. Let me let you in on a little secret: it's not because of competition from brown men that white women don't find you attractive, it's your abhorrent personality.

[Zacha341]

I'd not be surprised if there are some super-self-loathing deeming it'd be our just 'comeuppance' to import diseases not endemic to the US.

After all, look at what the white conquerers have done to populations by just that kind of disease transmission.

That 'factor' alone speaks to the historical evidence of how disease can spread when small and mass populations resettle. As consequence.

There's much agreement that is precisely what befell many ala white and other conquerers.

Yet, and somehow, suddenly there's NO appreciable risk now?

Why not? Cause Trump and the right wing claim there IS a risk? SMH....

Beyond eyes-wide-shut, it's time we start reasoning these issues out for ourselves - beyond permission of, or allegiance to a party!

Just remember, microbes are not very partisan or democratic.

Microbes/viruses, annoying pests they are, care little about your dinner party, gated-community, heated debate[[s), who's for who's, or brilliant argumentation!

We need to open our eyes so as to not poo-poo the risk of serious disease [[beyond the politics), seeing the historical evidence of such.

[oladub]

Aj, Try not to selectively edit out context to better understand what you are reading. In my previous post #103, I included the context but I guess it didn't work with your spin. I even asked you," If you can find where I disagree "that the caravan harbors a disease that was eradicated 30 years ago?", please point it out." but all you came up with was to repeat your edited part of my comment. Pathetic. Anyone can review my previous post.

I thought it odd, or even weird, that you brought up my testicles in post #98. If there are any armchair psychologists reading this, they should have a good time considering who the incel is. Repeat, You brought that up. I wonder about people who are obsessed with calling the President "Pussy-grabber" too.

"Brown people"? You mean like the "brown people" Obama bombed in seven countries or the Honduran economic invasion groups? I list myself as "mixed race" on census forms noting probable but undocumented Hispanic, Asian, and Black ancestry. That said, I'm not ideologically castrated to the point of caring about PC insults such as your weird identity politics concern about "brown men". Identity politics is the new tribalism, a form of racism which you just promoted. I guess the idea is to make Americans cower with the threat of being called "racist" if they so much as suggest setting lower immigration rates, consider groups eligible to immigrate as FDR did, and letting Congress do its constitutional job regarding establishing limits and protecting our borders. Nor do I care about your demands about wording things as you insist and answering your questions when you refuse or are unable to answer mine. Who do you think you are? You remain, in my opinion, the Democratic corporatist status quo apologist on this board.

[Zacha341]

Uh, eh BTW, what happened to the Caravan? Did they stop off or get lost?

[Meddle]

^^ Look back a page or two. Didn't I hint at that?

[Richard]

Some got tired and went back home,which kinda kills the whole heading to the border for safety reasons.

Some were offered citizenship and jobs in Mexico City and turned the offer down.

There is a video floating around showing the Mexican police escorting a group of 400 to the US border,but I am thinking that is for safety reasons as they go through cartel zones where the women and little girls would be kidnapped for reasons not so nice.Hard to fault them for that.


They are still getting support from the locals as they pass through cities and towns,it’s kinda like,o you poor thing,here is some food and water,just do not get to comfortable.

The rest are still trudging along with a lot of miles left to go maybe 30 days out?

Maybe the happy medium there is to hand them a brick and a trowel and say,okay in exchange for citizenship you have to help build 200’ of the wall that way they can find out right from the start it is not the land of milk and honey and money does not grow on trees.

I guess what people do not understand is that in other countries they have limited TV and media so they base what America is like by what they see and watch on TV.

In the movies and shows everybody drives a big car and lives in a big house making millions,they really do not see the amount of people living here just like over there and the amount of work it actually takes for the adverage person just to pay the rent.

[Richard]

Here is a tracker map

https://cis.org/Migrant-Caravan-Map

[Zacha341]

So glad I live up south [[Michigan). Can anyone say Maginot Line?

[Honky Tonk]

they can find out right from the start it is not the land of milk and honey and money does not grow on trees.

https://www.easternleaf.com/What_Is_...lant_a/445.htm

In the movies and shows everybody drives a big car and lives in a big house making millions,they really do not see the amount of people living here just like over there and the amount of work it actually takes for the adverage person just to pay the rent.

Right. Next you'll be trying to tell me that Mexicans don't wear sombreros and take siestas under cactus trees.

[bust]

Would SW Detroit be better or worse off without immigrants [[legal or otherwise)? Would Detroit?

For those of you thinking it's "us vs. them" think twice.

Illegal immigrants belong at the back of the line. And some should be rejected. But immigration helps communities, that is clear. It has been proven throughout the entirety of US history. Believe history, not partisan propaganda.

University of Kentucky: Immigrants Benefit the Community and Economy
https://cesj.as.uky.edu/immigrants-b...ty-and-economy

[Zacha341]

I agree. However, most of our Latino pops local followed our immigration process to enter the US.

And even for those 'undocumented', I'm certain more than a few [[no not just the GOP types) are less than enthusiastic about illegals further subdividing our resources at multiple levels.

Further, the nations the Honduran's are passing thru on their way here already have the 'us vs them' protocol in mind.

Maybe they need a 'talking-to' about being so doggone selfish------

[bust]

I agree.

We usually agree, and we still agree. Except I'd have to come up with a better word than "selfish" for the countries on their way here.

I was shocked when I tried to help a friend here on a J visa get assistance so she could see a doctor. She could not afford it otherwise [[another problem). They told her it was unfortunate she was here legally because if she were illegal she could qualify. What kind of upside down policy is that?!?!

[Richard]

^ if people are against Illeagle immigration it does not mean they are anti immigrant as they are classified as.

Even ones applying legally cannot draw from social services until after they receive thier citizen status,charity starts at home first.

[jcole]

^ if people are against Illeagle immigration it does not mean they are anti immigrant as they are classified as.

Even ones applying legally cannot draw from social services until after they receive thier citizen status,charity starts at home first.

I don't want sick birds coming into the country either; also didn't know they could apply for citizenship. How do they take the test?

[Richard]

I don't want sick birds coming into the country either; also didn't know they could apply for citizenship. How do they take the test?

Well,you seem to be of a pretty reasonable thought process,maybe you could come up with a test that they could take on entry.

Outside of the laws already in place pertaining to the importation of animals into the country apoun arrival.

A sick bird in the UK is also referred to as a sick female,in which these days could be considered a sexist comment.

Push comes to shove,you could always do your part and grab a shot gun and pick em out of the sky,then it would be your preference as to fried,baked or smoked.

O my bad you were being sarcastic.

You guys cannot even understand the difference between illegal and undocumented,not sure why the spelling would bother you.

Maybe you are in denile,and not the river in Egypt.

[Honky Tonk]

I don't want sick birds coming into the country either; also didn't know they could apply for citizenship. How do they take the test?

Let me know when the American taxpayer starts shelling out $20k per egg and driving up the cost of Healthcare in this country, jcole.

[jcole]

Let me know when the American taxpayer starts shelling out $20k per egg and driving up the cost of Healthcare in this country, jcole.

It really wasn't about the ILLEGALS, Honky, it was about the ILLEAGLES

[canuck]

It really wasn't about the ILLEGALS, Honky, it was about the ILLEAGLES

Chuckles. Thank you kindly.

[Honky Tonk]

It really wasn't about the ILLEGALS, Honky, it was about the ILLEAGLES

Then the solution is to put them in a truck and drop them off in can-o'-duh, eh? Free Healthcare!