The Honduran Elephant In The Room

[Richard]

Yea,it irks me,I live in a historically Dem city and it was not until the Trump administration took over that they really started pushing help with advanced education and skills training,they could have done that years ago.

But they still like to keep everybody in thier little sectors.

When every American citizen in this country that wants to and can take advantage of the opportunities advailable,then we can readdress the illegal immigration issues,until then they are just climbing over thier fellow Americans in a rush to embrace fake empathy.

Until then we should seal the border up so tight an ant cannot cross,by any means necessary,they can do what everybody else has done for the last 100 years,follow the legal path.

[Johnnny5]

Just a bunch of peaceful women and children heading to the border.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NviG31ZWMLc

Has anyone seen this video or any like it on broadcast television news? I don't have a TV, but I have not seen this covered on any of the major news websites. Even on YouTube it appears as if it's purposely being hidden from recommend lists, and possibly search results as the videos have a miniscule number of views.

[Jimaz]

DetroitYES Forums » Non Detroit Issues » Thom Hartmann » Vote, While You Have A Choice!

[Jimaz]

Just a bunch of peaceful women and children heading to the border.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NviG31ZWMLc

This link can disrupt your youtube interface if you're on a desktop.

If that happens, scroll to the very bottom of the page and click "desktop" instead of "mobile" to restore your customary interface.

Naughty software.

[JBMcB]

DetroitYES Forums » Non Detroit Issues » Thom Hartmann » Vote, While You Have A Choice!

That is a pretty effective ad campaign, IMHO. I would like to have seen something similar when Obama was doing, more or less, the exact same thing.

I guess immigrants only matter when democrats are trying to get into office. Remember Obama's comprehensive immigration reform pledge in 2009? The democrat-controlled house AND senate did exactly nothing about it.

I'm not saying republicans would be any better, but I don't see evidence that democrats would do anything, either.

[Richard]

Has anyone seen this video or any like it on broadcast television news? I don't have a TV, but I have not seen this covered on any of the major news websites. Even on YouTube it appears as if it's purposely being hidden from recommend lists, and possibly search results as the videos have a miniscule number of views.

I watch via Roku mostly lib news,kinda keep an eye on the enemy aspect,they only show the women and children and sob stories,but it shows how much manipulation is really going on in the media and the whole constant waaa Trump cannot be healthy,watch it for 15 min and I want to jump off of the roof.

Sky news,RT and a few other foreign news broadcasts have aired it,President Trump has mentioned the rock throwing border crashing aspect,the military aspect was brought into play soon after its release,so he must have seen it but unless one views it most would not know what it is in reference to.

My thinking is if they try that at our border,somebody is going to do something in self defense and all hell is going to break out.

I wonder why he did not pull in the national guard verses the military?

[Zacha341]

Bottom line: withstanding partisan allegiances [[and the who loves/ hates Trump factor), is it advantageous to this country [[where we live last I checked) to allow this caravan entry?

Of course the power-elite and their immediate inner-circle denizens will not be affected, but how does this advance our general communities and cities?

Are we to give our borders over without question, while others wait on line? Again I ask, how will our own existing poor, un-housed, sick, and unemployed be positively impacted in any measurable way be this??

Where are our priorities?

Who's making money and gaining political leverage? Um, say MOTIVE!

[aj3647]

Has anyone seen this video or any like it on broadcast television news? I don't have a TV, but I have not seen this covered on any of the major news websites. Even on YouTube it appears as if it's purposely being hidden from recommend lists, and possibly search results as the videos have a miniscule number of views.

How do you even know that video is authentic? The anti-immigrant Right has been deliberately spreading false info online about the Caravan, just one [[of many) examples being the photo of a bloodied Mexican police officer that Right Wing twitter accounts were claiming was assaulted by member of the caravan. In reality, the photo they were spreading dates back to 2012 and shows an officer who was injured by student protesters protesting educational policy, not members of the caravan.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/me...aravan-photos/

NEVER accept these types of pictures or video at face value until you have independently confirmed their authenticity.

[Jimaz]

Caravan Cold Open - SNL

[Maof]

Unfortunately, there are many, too many, who believe what they see [[and hear).

[Richard]

How do you even know that video is authentic? The anti-immigrant Right has been deliberately spreading false info online about the Caravan, just one [[of many) examples being the photo of a bloodied Mexican police officer that Right Wing twitter accounts were claiming was assaulted by member of the caravan. In reality, the photo they were spreading dates back to 2012 and shows an officer who was injured by student protesters protesting educational policy, not members of the caravan.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/me...aravan-photos/

NEVER accept these types of pictures or video at face value until you have independently confirmed their authenticity.

You up guys need to make up your minds,I posted a snopes debunk and was told it was fake then you post a snoops link and want us to believe it?


Two different things,the posted video was filmed on cell phone and there are several out there that show different angles,you really think it was staged?

How about this weekend where two US border guards were attacked by immigrants with rocks,one is in the hospital the other died,you are going to tell his wife and kids that it was also staged.

It is simple,somebody picks up a rock,they are not intending to give you a kiss and hug,respond with deadly force.

But then you guys would be crying about some poor illegal immigrants that got shot while trying to do deadly harm to another fellow American,doing his job and putting his life on the line,for your safety.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Yes, I hear that. But I personally don't require videos false, or authentic to question how our own very poor, un-housed, sick, and unemployed will be benefit from this.

THEY WILL NOT.

More illegals will negatively impact our most vulnerable populations. Not the jaw-boners promoting it simply to get at Trump.

How blind can we be? All the behest of poli-tricks!?

[aj3647]

How about this weekend where two US border guards were attacked by immigrants with rocks,one is in the hospital the other died,you are going to tell his wife and kids that it was also staged.

That didn't happen. That is fake news and you fell for it.

https://www.politifact.com/facebook-...murderous-int/

If a Border Patrol agent died this weekend from rock throwers, then post a link to a news article about it. Or admit that you're a gullible dupe who believes everything you read on Facebook. Because it's one or the other.

Here you are, spreading fake news and proving my point for me. Thanks Richard!

[Meddle]

Not looking at your link, but doing simple searches of news articles finds nothing recent, only a case a year ago [[Nov. '17) of an agent's death of undetermined origin, possibly an accidental fall.

[Richard]

AJ Here I will make it easy for you,if it is fake news then your go to news sources are spreading it.

Two agents beat and left laying in a culvert is hardly classified as an accidental fall.


https://www-m.cnn.com/2017/11/19/us/...MBrviahuKMZC4-


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rs-ambush.html

[Maof]

Again, not true.....

https://www.politifact.com/facebook-fact-checks/statements/2018/nov/04/blog-posting/fatal-accident-falsely-used-evidence-murderous-int/

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bo...officer-death/

[aj3647]

Not looking at your link, but doing simple searches of news articles finds nothing recent, only a case a year ago [[Nov. '17) of an agent's death of undetermined origin, possibly an accidental fall.

The FAKE news that Richard is peddling refers to an incident that happened a year ago [[not this weekend, as Richard falsely claimed) in which two Border Patrol agents accidentally fell into a culvert at night. One died at the scene, the other was injured. Conservatives [[including Greg Abbott and Ted Cruz), without evidence, immediately began to spread a story that the two agents were attacked by rock-throwing migrants.

The FBI released the results of their investigation three months later:

On Feb. 7, 2018, the FBI released a statement saying that although it was receptive to any new information about the case, "To date none of the more than 650 interviews completed, locations searched, or evidence collected and analyzed have produced evidence that would support the existence of a scuffle, altercation, or attack on November 18, 2017."

The surviving agent, Stephen Garland, has no recollection of being attacked and reported that the two agents had "ran into a culvert" when he called in for help immediately after the incident.

Basically, it was a tragic accident that opportunists like Richard took and morphed into a brutal attack to suit their lying political agenda. It's fake news at its finest and we shouldn't let these people get away with peddling obvious lies.

But kudos to Richard for self-owning. Nothing like disproving the "fake news" narrative by spreading more fake news.

[aj3647]

Again, not true.....

https://www.politifact.com/facebook-fact-checks/statements/2018/nov/04/blog-posting/fatal-accident-falsely-used-evidence-murderous-int/

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bo...officer-death/

Richard doesn't have the intellectual capacity to grasp these things. Notice regarding the two articles he cited:
1) Both are dated November 20, 2017. Two days after the incident. Both predate the actual FBI investigation and the release of those results.
2) The CNN article he linked to makes NO CLAIM WHATSOEVER that it was an attack or that there were rock throwers. It does quote Donald Trump, Texas Governor Greg Abbott, and Senator Ted Cruz as calling it an "attack." Again, they did this without a shred of evidence and they were later proven wrong.
3) The Daily Fail article he linked to [[aside from being a tabloid and not an actual news organization) again simply cites the characterization of the incident by Ted Cruz, Greg Abbott, Trump and others as fact without actual evidence.

Again, Richard or anyone else who wants a fact-based, definitive account of this incident can simply read the FBI investigative report instead of a British tabloid. There's not a single shred of evidence that this incident was an attack beyond "Trump said it was" or "Ted Cruz said it was." But of course, for the Richards of the world, what Trump says dictates reality, actual evidence be dammed.

[oladub]

The most recent murder of a Border Patrol agent I can find was in 2017. "Since 1904, the Border Patrol has lost 123 officers in the line of duty, more than any other federal law enforcement agency during that time period." Gunfire and stabbings constitute only about 1/4 of those deaths.

Illegal non-citizens constitute about 3.5% of the population. "The U.S. Department of Justice and the U.S. Sentencing Commission reported that as of 2014, illegal immigrants were convicted and sentenced for over 13 percent of all crimes committed in the U.S." "According to research and statistics by the U.S. Departments of Justice and Homeland Security, U.S. taxpayers are footing an annual bill of nearly $19 million a day to house and care for an estimated 300,000 to 450,000 convicted criminal immigrants who are eligible for deportation and are currently residing in local jails and state and federal prisons across the country." That's money that could have been better used if spent on Americans.

Some of the 9/11 "immigrants" had overstayed their visas so they too were illegal non-citizens. According to the NY Times, 9/11 cost Americans $3.1T as of 2011. Had immigration laws been enforced instead of ignored, some 3,000 deaths could have been avoided and additional resultant military deaths fighting in places like Afghanistan could have been avoided and we would be richer.

We have a choice to make on this issue when we vote.

[Jimaz]

Clearly we're too soft on culverts. We need to lock 'em all up!

[aj3647]

The most recent murder of a Border Patrol agent I can find was in 2017. "Since 1904, the Border Patrol has lost 123 officers in the line of duty, more than any other federal law enforcement agency during that time period." Gunfire and stabbings constitute only about 1/4 of those deaths.

Illegal non-citizens constitute about 3.5% of the population. "The U.S. Department of Justice and the U.S. Sentencing Commission reported that as of 2014, illegal immigrants were convicted and sentenced for over 13 percent of all crimes committed in the U.S." "According to research and statistics by the U.S. Departments of Justice and Homeland Security, U.S. taxpayers are footing an annual bill of nearly $19 million a day to house and care for an estimated 300,000 to 450,000 convicted criminal immigrants who are eligible for deportation and are currently residing in local jails and state and federal prisons across the country." That's money that could have been better used if spent on Americans.

Then people like Richard should have no problem citing actual factual examples of crimes instead of fabricating them. Another example, other than the bullshit Right Wing fake news I exposed above, is Trump's immigration ad. The GOP cites the case of Luis Bracamontes, who killed two police officers, and then blames Democrats for allowing him into the country. Except that's all lies. Bracamontes had actually been deported under the Clinton Administration, re-entered the country under George W Bush [[a Republican, last I checked) and had at one point been detained by Sheriff Joe Arpaio's office [[again, a Republican, last I checked and a virulently anti-immigrant one to boot) and mysteriously released. Those are the facts. But it doesn't keep Trump from lying about them, nor his supporters apparently.

It didn't stop Trump and Pence from claiming, without a shred of fucking evidence, that there were ISIS terrorists in the migrant caravan. Even the White House dropped that one eventually, knowing it couldn't possibly defend that claim.

Another example is a Fox News commentator who claimed on-air that Central American migrants were bringing "smallpox" into the country. Smallpox. Smallpox was eradicated in 1980. This is what passes for "facts" in the world of Trump supporters. ISIS terrorists, smallpox, and fake news stories about migrants attacking law enforcement.

Yes, people should vote based on this issue, but on the FACTS of this issue and not a bunch of bullshit lies cooked up by white nationalists. But I feel that on election day, there will be a glut of low-education white men voting based almost solely on lies and propaganda.

[oladub]

Aj, Facts are good. I don't think that Trump could say with certainty that the 'caravan' harbors smallpox or ISIS. However, no one can prove the caravan doesn't contain infectious diseases. Better to error on the side of caution. I notice that you don't seem to oppose this succession of caravans heading this way. There are lists of immigrants and their children who have been implicated in or accused of terrorist acts in the U.S. since 9/11. Again, given such examples and ISIS stated goals of slipping terrorists into migrant streams headed to Europe, it might be a good idea to error on the side of caution.

Diseases, drug importation, and terrorists aside, the greater threat to more Americans is flooding the job market with cheaper foreign workers. When the economy cools down at the same time robotics and computers are replacing entry level jobs, we won't need all those entry level workers; even American entry level workers.

[aj3647]

Aj, Facts are good. I don't think that Trump could say with certainty that the 'caravan' harbors smallpox or ISIS.

You don't think "Trump could say with certainty" that the caravan harbors a disease that was eradicated 30 years ago? Then either he's a moron or you are. I will say with absolute 100% certainty that the caravan doesn't have smallpox. Why? Because smallpox was eradicated...30 years ago. So yeah, I think that's about as definitive as you can get on something. Hey way to take a stand though, so brave of you. "can't say with certainty that the caravan is carrying smallpox", I mean, that just says it all right there.

Hey I heard that the migrant caravan might have Voldemort and Sauron from Lord of the Rings in it too. And Darth Vader. And it's carrying the Zombie plague from the Walking Dead. But I will admit that I cannot say with certainty that they are in the caravan.

There are lists of immigrants and their children who have been implicated in or accused of terrorist acts in the U.S. since 9/11.

How many of those individuals illegally entered this country through the Southern border? Answer: zero. In fact, almost all if not all of the individuals on that list entered this country LEGALLY, through a port of entry. So what exactly is your point here? What does that have to do with the migrant caravan? Now you're just going to conflate legal and illegal immigration together?

Why don't you just man up and have the balls to admit that you hate all immigrants, all of them, regardless of how they come into this country? That you oppose ALL immigration, not just the illegal variety? Because the only way to ensure that no immigrant ever commits a crime, not even a single one, ever, is to just not have any immigrants at all. And I get the feeling that's ultimately what you want, sealed borders, no immigration.

[Jimaz]

...That you oppose ALL immigration, not just the illegal variety? Because the only way to ensure that no immigrant ever commits a crime, not even a single one, ever, is to just not have any immigrants at all....

I'm envisioning a Native American quietly smiling at this thread.

"All the problems we face in the United States today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian."

— Pat Paulsen

[Meddle]

I've stated that in one way or another before.

But remember that the braves were confronted by invading hordes of angry white men with firesticks ... and firewater. And smallpox.