The Honduran Elephant In The Room

[canuck]

canuck, That's an interesting take you have on the "masses"; you know, like people who go shopping at Walmart. You stereotype them as all reading the National Enquirer. That has the condescending flavor of calling working people "deplorables". Your NY Times link, an always impartial source, didn't specify Walmart shoppers. It mentioned Safeway and groceries in general across the nation; our nation not yours. I've seen a lot of presumably Mexican families shopping in rural Walmarts trying to stretch their dollars too. Are you suggesting that Hondurans who cross the border for American jobs and benefits won't do the same?

Yes, that’s an interesting take you have there oladub, I don’t know about condescending, just ask your President for guidance as far as who deserves praise and who doesn’t. He seems to be pretty good at dishing out invectives at would be immigrants, but he refrains his impulses as far as the MAGA cultists, his bread and butter voters.

The National Enquirer has a certain quality to it that I can’t help associating with the "People of Walmart" synthesized on the website of the same name. As for the "working people" deplorability tinge, I’m sorry I can’t help you with that one. I don’t equate working people with anything, that is part of the hogwash that is left over from the right wing idea of keeping people in their place. The working population of the US comprises all manner of occupations, and the unemployment is pretty low.

As for the swamp needing to be drained, that is an appropriate simile if you think of the climate-change negationist; anti-science bent in the administration. Swamps are important to the survival of many species, but they are always equated with the ugly nuisances of Nature. But they of course want to bulldoze and build a shopping mall, a golf course or a hotel, because that’s what the Chump knows; anyways, you get my drift.

[coracle]

If your primary goal is to get away from violence, Costa Rica, Panama, Peru and Columbia are all MUCH closer than the US and are relatively stable for the region. To get to the US you have to pass through some pretty rough, gang-controlled territory in northern Mexico. Even southern and western Mexico are pretty decent.

I think they’re economic immigrants out to get the max free stuff in a country that “rewards” illegals over their own citizens. I don’t think they would get anywhere near the equivalent treatment in the countries you mention. Now of course in a Trump era they might not any longer get in here anyway; so it’s moot.

As for getting away from the violence; they are the culture that produced the violence they currently want to escape from; but wherever they settle they will take it with them and practice it in a smaller enclave in their new country. Except some of it will spill over and directly effect innocent Americans.

[Canadian Visitor]

“Several other posters have found at least some of my posts useful or interesting.
That can't be said for you. Not a single person likes anything you post.
Not even equally obnoxious people, they can't stand you either.”

I’m a single poster [[well actually I’m married - so please don’t insult my wife!); I’m also an obnoxious person [[though not in your class by any means) and enjoy reading what Richard posts far more than your condescending drivel; which you obviously think is clever because you spew out so much of it.

I have bolded the relevant passage for you. I said 'single person' You are not a person. You are vermin.

I don’t find your posts useful at all. I find them fucking annoying.

I could care less. I try to aid w/intelligent discussion, something many here participate in, but you do not. You're not my audience. I don't care what racist, misogynist, homophobic, low-IQ, social outcast rejects imagine they think.

They don't think. You don't think. You occupy space and consume resources people like me make possible.

You are a parasite.

[coracle]

^I rest my case. [[although I think you mean “You’re vermin” not “Your” vermin).

And thank you for making it possible for me to take the piss out of you! I’m enjoying it.

[Richard]

Even vermin feed their children so what does that make those who do not?

[Canadian Visitor]

Even vermin feed their children so what does that make those who do not?

Putting aside another in your endless repetition of lies and insults.............

I don't even have children, you numb nuts.

Go crawl back in your hole.

If I require someone to spew bullshit, I'll summon you with a dog whistle or a can of stale tuna or something.

You know I used to be a nicer person before you and the racist vermin above taught me to hate.

I can't say I was so naive as not to know scum like you existed in the world. But I hadn't had the personal displeasure of communicating w/one [[or more) in a long time.

I prefer being kinder. But where you're concerned, I have zero ability to tolerate your crap.

You know you have nothing useful to contribute, nothing intelligent to say, nothing worthwhile to add to any discussion, any debate or anything in the entire world.

But your desire to seek attention brings you out a dozen times a day.

Save us both the trouble. Hush.

[Zacha341]

Death of migrant girl Jakelin Caal highlights communication problems on the US-Mexico border

Lawyers for the family of a seven-year-old girl who died while in US Border Patrol custody say she did not suffer from a lack of food or water before authorities picked her up. US officials say she had not had anything to eat or drink for days.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...er/2334355002/

[Richard]

Putting aside another in your endless repetition of lies and insults.............

I don't even have children, you numb nuts.

Go crawl back in your hole.

If I require someone to spew bullshit, I'll summon you with a dog whistle or a can of stale tuna or something.

You know I used to be a nicer person before you and the racist vermin above taught me to hate.

I can't say I was so naive as not to know scum like you existed in the world. But I hadn't had the personal displeasure of communicating w/one [[or more) in a long time.

I prefer being kinder. But where you're concerned, I have zero ability to tolerate your crap.

You know you have nothing useful to contribute, nothing intelligent to say, nothing worthwhile to add to any discussion, any debate or anything in the entire world.

But your desire to seek attention brings you out a dozen times a day.

Save us both the trouble. Hush.

Lies?

Canada is the only G7 - G8 country that does not have a national school lunch program.

Fact.

Canada is the only G7-G8 country that does not have a national low income or poverty level housing program.

Fact

Canada with a population similar to California has a homeless rate in excess of 200,000 yearly.

Fact

Now,all of those I backed up with creditable links supplied by your own government and agencies but you choose to ignore them.

During the 1960s 70s and 80s 70% of all the heroin coming into the United States came through Canada.

It was facilitated with government support from payoffs through the Rizzuto to the Bonannos,that is not some deep dark secret so your government is not without its level of dirtiness,no government is.

In order to get you really tweaked up I will include some more that you choose to feel the need to school us on how our government should run modeled after Canada,if we wanted to be like Canada we would just take it.

Racism

Until 1950 Jews in Canada were considered sub human and last in line of the worst of the worst.

Even more so,when Germany celebrated the night of the broken glass,Canada also in show of support,had its own night of the broken glass and the government was told to stand down and allow it.

During WW2 Canadian Asians were also rounded up and placed in camps while their possessions and lands were sold at public auction and did not receive citizen voting rights until 1959.

Gun Control

You guys do like to pound in how successful your gun control is and we should look at that for guidance.

But yet your factories produce military weapons that are sold through intermediaries who then sell them to war lords that place them in the hands of children.

So guns are okay when used as a revenue source in order to pay for free healthcare,just as long as they are used in another county and their children are killed instead of yours.

I could go on but with you being in your ivory tower brainwashed into thinking Canada is this compassionate caring place that looks after everybody it becomes pointless.

The harsh reality is Canada is no different then any other country it has its good parts its bad parts and like any other country,its dirty secrets.

That is not an insult to Canada,it is the way the world is and operates.

You sitting in your ivory tower not knowing what it is like being homeless or without a meal or the everyday struggles the average person goes through.

The only way of life that you know is what you were taught under the agenda of your teachers.

I knew from the very first post that you directed at me,coming at me with this whole world revolves around you and everybody should conform to what you believe.

That does not make you special like you have been taught,if you actually get out and experience the real world you will find people are a dime a dozen like that.

You say that you respond to me after blocking me because the website still allows you to see my posts.

Is there a little DYes devil sitting on your shoulder forcing you to reply?

No,you are supposed to be an adult and accountable for your own personal actions,the web site is not your babysitter.

This site is no different then the real world,you have socialists,hard left,leftists,liberals,democrats [[stuck in the middle of all of it) then you have conservatives and hard right.

The one thing that they all have in common is that they all have a right as outlined in this forum to voice their opinions and provide to the best of their abilities facts in order to support those opinions,because for every fact that one provides there can be a counter fact provided.It is the way it is.

Sometimes it is just one posting an opinion based on personal experiences or events.Just because you may not agree with it,it does not give you the right to question their experiences.

Anyways,they say Christmas time is the season for miracles and you have provided one by saying that you have no children,maybe it is best to hold off on that until you can take a hard look in the mirror on how you view others that you deem sub par in your world.

As they say, Do not judge a man until you walk in his shoes.

In the intern,stay in your little self imposed block until you can act like an adult,or you can go to bed without your supper and see what life is really like for some others.Or do you prefer a spanking as punishment,as much as you try to hide it,you do have a sadistic side to you.

[Richard]

Death of migrant girl Jakelin Caal highlights communication problems on the US-Mexico border

Lawyers for the family of a seven-year-old girl who died while in US Border Patrol custody say she did not suffer from a lack of food or water before authorities picked her up. US officials say she had not had anything to eat or drink for days.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...er/2334355002/

The whole intent was to overwhelm the border in the hopes of catch and release,as tragic as it is,they all were well aware of the risks involved.

At least they highlighted the whole regional dialect differences.

I think most Americans or ones that do not live in mixed migrant communities think that Spanish is Spanish when it is not.

Look at it as if in this country if every state spoke a different language,then break it down to every city everybody spoke a slightly different dialect then even further down where the ones in the city speak a different dialect then those in the country.

You could be in the City of Detroit and speak one language dialect and drive to visit Birmingham a few miles away and not understand a word of what is being said.

We are talking about border patrol being able to speak 1000s of different dialects in the Spanish language alone and that does not include the Chinese 1000s more,Arabic 100s more and 100s of countries that show up on the border.

You would have to employ 50,000 different interpreters.

I use google translate in dealing with customers,but even that at best only provides the jist of any given base language.You would not be able to use it in situations where Ts need to be crossed and Is dotted.

And people wonder why we call English a common language here,you can at least travel 50 miles and still have a conversation.

[Canadian Visitor]

Lies?

Canada is the only G7 - G8 country that does not have a national school lunch program.

Fact.

Misleading. Most G7 countries are unitary states [[look that up). Further, education is provincial responsibility; there are provincial lunch programs.

Canada is the only G7-G8 country that does not have a national low income or poverty level housing program.

Fact

Misleading, see above, social services are a provincial responsibility. Canada has two programs by which the federal government helps the provinces.

The first is a block transfer payment in two parts, one devoted to health care; the other to social services and education.

The provinces may use this money in furtherance of their priorities.

The second is a program called 'equalization' which makes sure every province can afford the same services as the richest province.

You didn't know any of that, because you don't care what's true or real or important. You only value being a slimy bastard that libels and slanders different people, peoples and countries. As if we somehow how have to live up to being like you.

Canada with a population similar to California has a ho
meless rate in excess of 200,000 yearly.

Fact

That is fact. Which is lower than the number in California when you compare 'yearly' numbers'. As I already pointed out. Canada's relative number [[daily count to daily count) is roughly 30,000 which is about 23% of the Cali number.

Now,all of those I backed up with creditable links supplied by your own government and agencies but you choose to ignore them.

No I did not. I placed them in context. Which you ignore, because you're a liar and an idiot and proud of it.

In order to get you really tweaked up I will include some more that you choose to feel the need to school us on how our government should run modeled after Canada,if we wanted to be like Canada we would just take it.

At no point have I suggested the United States emulate Canada in particular. Nor have I held up my country as a paragon of virtue.

You confuse the fact I think you're an asshole who makes your country less successful than it otherwise would be, with criticism of your country writ large.

You also conflate areas of public policy in which all Americans agree there is a need for improvement and I may suggest alternatives to the current choices which include but are not limited to the choices made in Canada.

I would commend any number of countries as reference points on employment standards, from Australia, to New Zealand to Ireland, to Sweden, Norway, Belgium, Netherlands, Finland etc. Indeed, i would recommend any of these over Canada.

I offer a number of policy perspectives and none has to do with the intrinsic superiority of Canada or any other nation.

That shining city on a hill BS is not the national rhetoric of Canada, nor is it mine.

During WW2 Canadian Asians were also rounded up and placed in camps while their possessions and lands were sold at public auction and did not receive citizen voting rights until 1959.

Disgraceful. You are aware the United States did the same thing right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern...nese_Americans

You guys do like to pound in how successful your gun control is and we should look at that for guidance.

But yet your factories produce military weapons that are sold through intermediaries who then sell them to war lords that place them in the hands of children.

Yes, Canada deals in arms, like every other major country on earth, notably, the United States.

For what its worth, I disagree with that, and would support an export ban. But its not going to happen.

The harsh reality is Canada is no different then any other country it has its good parts its bad parts and like any other country,its dirty secrets.

Duh! I never said different.

Again you confuse the fact I think YOU are detritis with what I think of your country.

You also conflate criticism of policy with criticism of identity. They are not the same thing.

You sitting in your ivory tower not knowing what it is like being homeless or without a meal or the everyday struggles the average person goes through.

I'm amused at your perception of me. Neither of my parents ever owned a house; though neither did they live in subsidized housing.

Neither graduated High School.

I was the first in my family do that, and to go to and graduate University.

I went to public school, not private.

I work. I am neither a recipient of assistance, nor do I live off some ferry dust money, or endowment or the like.

Because I am successful by most standards does not mean I didn't fight to get here.

I know exactly what it took, and I know what helped me too.

Which is why I support universal healthcare, good quality public education, affordable tuitions and more.

Because I know they played a role in my success and I would like others to have that opportunity too.

I knew from the very first post that you directed at me,coming at me with this whole world revolves around you and everybody should conform to what you believe.

I have no issue w/your personal preferences..........well, ok, I'm sure I would find some distasteful........but I don't give a rat's ass what you like to eat for dinner or where you buy your groceries or what you favourite colour is either.

I also welcome opinions that could be said to be right-leaning or left-leaning or purely pragmatic. I'm not fixated on one party or one idea.

What I can and will call you out on all day long is bullshit.

You confuse your opinions with facts.

You confuse your ignorance with information.

You confuse your myopic biases with fairness.

No amount of wishful thinking on your part fixes any of these.

Is there a little DYes devil sitting on your shoulder forcing you to reply?

The same could be said of you.

The difference is you're the one spreading lies, and I'm the one correcting your lies and proffering the truth.

If you would like me to post less, don't post at all. I guarantee that will cut by posts by at least 1/2, and maybe 3/4.

because for every fact that one provides there can be a counter fact provided.It is the way it is.

NO! There is no such thing as a counter-fact, unless that's a the new euphemism for bullshit!

A fact is a provable truth supported by evidence. It is not possible to have two opposing facts.

It is possible two have different preferences.

Not the same.

Sometimes it is just one posting an opinion based on personal experiences or events.Just because you may not agree with it,it does not give you the right to question their experiences.

An opinion is not a fact.

Yes, it may be questioned.

This is Lowell's site, not yours. He has not restricted my privilege to call out your BS, thus far. That is his prerogative, not yours.

as much as you try to hide it,you do have a sadistic side to you.

You really think I'm trying to hide it?

No, there's no ambiguity where you're concerned.

I'm not proud of that instinct, by neither am I apologetic for being intolerant of ignorance and bigotry.

[Canadian Visitor]

Now, pretty please, let's stop.

I am long since bored with you; and others are bored with both of us for this unending exchange.

[Zacha341]

^^....Amen....^^

[Zacha341]

Family of migrant girl who died in custody dispute she died from dehydration

Update:

An attorney for the father of the 7-year-old Guatemalan immigrant who died in U.S. custody last week disputes claims that she had not been able to consume food or water for days before crossing illegally into the U.S.

“She had not suffered from a lack of water or food prior to approaching the border,” an attorney for Jakelin Caal’s father, who had crossed illegally with his daughter and about 160 other migrants, said.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/p...om-dehydration

[coracle]

Now, pretty please, let's stop.

Well said. I welcome the opportunity to assume your comment could have been directed at me, I wholeheartedly concur - let’s stop. No more barbs from me.

[admin]

We have received complaints of incivility in this thread and indeed there is.

Since it all involves veteran members, we are appealing to you to kindly cease all name calling and personal attacks. You are all long familiar with the required rules of civility and such behavior, so please observe them and save us work and save the forum the unpleasantness this causes.

We allow the Non-Detroit forum looser rein. Indeed it was created to keep heated opinions from spilling over to the other forums.

But the incivility appearing here is over the line, unacceptable and must cease.

[Canadian Visitor]

We have received complaints of incivility in this thread and indeed there is.

Since it all involves veteran members, we are appealing to you to kindly cease all name calling and personal attacks. You are all long familiar with the required rules of civility and such behavior, so please observe them and save us work and save the forum the unpleasantness this causes.

We allow the Non-Detroit forum looser rein. Indeed it was created to keep heated opinions from spilling over to the other forums.

But the incivility appearing here is over the line, unacceptable and must cease.

Agreed.

I have been part of the problem here.

I will endeavour not to be, henceforth.

[oladub]

In response to canuck's post #251-

I looked up the "People of Walmart" link you referenced. It had one picture making fun of fat people and another of a farm pick-up [[think working people) with chickens in the back. I thought the site was condescending. The NY Times opinion piece in your previous post did mention The National Enquirer as being sold in Safeway and Publix but there was no mention of Walmart. It would have made more sense for you to stereotype Safeway an Publix customers. Maybe there is a PublixPeople website somewhere to make fun of Publix customers too for people who get off on looking down on others.

Being a foreigner, I don't expect you to understand the Constitution but it does give Congress the responsibility of determining naturalization law and gives both the Congress and the President the power to resist invasions. The thousands of Hondurans organized to enter the U.S. meet some dictionary definitions of "invasion". From Google's dictionary-

-An incursion by a large number of people or things into a place or sphere of activity- stadium guards are preparing for another invasion of fans
-An unwelcome intrusion into another's domain- random drug testing of employees is an unwarranted invasion of privacy
The infestation of a body by harmful organisms- a bacterial invasion

158M people would like to emigrate to the U.S.. Wanting to move here doesn't equal a gratis passport.

You claimed that the right keeps people in their place. I don't totally disagree with that yet under Obama the 3% increased their share of the national wealth at a faster rate than even under W. Bush. Under Trump, traditional underdog demographic groups now have record low unemployment levels but Democrats would have us open the borders to thousands of Hondurans and millions of other unskilled workers who would pull the rug out from under struggling American workers further increasing economic inequality.

[Johnnny5]

We have received complaints of incivility in this thread and indeed there is.


But the incivility appearing here is over the line, unacceptable and must cease.

Thank you.

[Richard]

I am thinking the biggest problem is factions within the Democratic Party whose voices are the loudest.

There are a lot of conservative Democrats that push for more border security,on YouTube one can watch campaign speeches of past where both Hillary and Obama campaigned on tougher border security and cracking down on illegal immigration as others have before them.

It is like anything else promised but not delivered,People can say what they like about the current president but at the very least he fights hard to keep his promises and that still meens something to people,I hope he sticks to his guns on this one,In the grand scope of everything 5 billion is really not that much.

[Johnnny5]

I like this idea.

A U.S. lawmaker is proposing a World War II style solution to the stalemate over President Donald Trump’s demand for a border wall that’s threatening a partial government shutdown.

Republican Representative Steven Palazzo of Mississippi is introducing legislation to direct the Treasury Department to issue government savings bonds to pay for a physical barrier between the U.S. and Mexico, one of Trump’s signature issues.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-to-wwii-bonds

[coracle]

I like this idea.

A U.S. lawmaker is proposing a World War II style solution to the stalemate over President Donald Trump’s demand for a border wall that’s threatening a partial government shutdown.

Republican Representative Steven Palazzo of Mississippi is introducing legislation to direct the Treasury Department to issue government savings bonds to pay for a physical barrier between the U.S. and Mexico, one of Trump’s signature issues.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-to-wwii-bonds

What a great idea. Where do I buy my Bonds? Can we have a proviso that if the issue is over subscribed we apply it to increasing the height of the wall? And what a wonderful unique gift to give the democrat members of your family for Christmas or a birthday present.

[jcole]

What a great idea. Where do I buy my Bonds? Can we have a proviso that if the issue is over subscribed we apply it to increasing the height of the wall? And what a wonderful unique gift to give the democrat members of your family for Christmas or a birthday present.

And what a lovely way to start a family feud that will last for generations

[aj3647]

Guess what Oladub [[and Richard and Coracle and the rest of you), today is your lucky day! You finally get to put your money where your mouth is, because the Wall is getting crowd-funded!

https://www.gofundme.com/TheTrumpWall

Donate today! It's already raised $3.5 million of its $1 billion goal. If every one of the more than 60 million Americans who voted for Donald Trump in 2016 gave just $80 to this campaign, that would give Trump the $5 billion he requested to start building the Wall.

Give all you can! In fact, give more than you can afford to! Don't worry, Mexico will reimburse you later, Trump promised.

Don't forget to put "DYes" after your name when you donate so that all the rest of can see that you donated in the "Recent Donations" list. Because I'd hate to think that you draw the line at actually opening up your wallets for something you care so much about. Prove me wrong, donate at least $80 to the Wall and really stick it to us liberals!

[oladub]

aj, Go back to peddling your coup. Let's, once again, go through a couple of my reasons for not supporting Trump's wall since you distorted my position as usual. I have repeatedly come out against the wall as a potential waste of money to the extent Democrats gets elected. The Great Wall of China worked pretty well until traitors took bribes to let in Mongols. Those traitors opened the gates. Walls are only as good as their gatekeepers. Democrats, of late, have supported de facto open borders as have Chamber of Commerce Republicans. I do, however, support high tech fences like Israel uses. Israel has a more urgent border problem than we do. Israel's high tech fences cost half, or less, as Trump's proposed wall.

When Reagan naturalized 3M illegal aliens. "once and for all" ending the problem in return for promises of fencing and other border protection measures, Democrats supported the bill. As recently as 2006, Senate Democrats including Sen. Clinton voted by a 26-17 margin in support of the Secure Fence Act of 2006 to build 700 miles of fencing. Unfortunately, Democrats and Chamber of Commerce Republicans never followed through with funding their promises. Democrats don't even pretend to defend our borders anymore.

There are limits to the effectiveness of wall and fences. One third of illegal aliens are people who have overstayed their visas. Included are three of the 9/11 hijackers. Walls or fences wouldn't stop that crowd. Yesterday a judge ruled that the U.S. has to fly back some people expelled for naturalization infractions to give them some more court time. Walls and fences wouldn't protect us from Obama appointed judges either.

Now we have mobs of unwanted economic immigrants who chose not to go through legal naturalization channels waving Honduran flags, demanding entrance, throwing rocks, pushing their few women and children to the head of the line endangering them for photo ops, refusing Mexican visas, and even demanding $50,000 to return home.

No, I'm not sending in any money to defend this country from economic invaders and other border miscreants. I already pay taxes for our government to defend our borders and vote for candidates who support our Constitution as best I can. However, maybe your distorted claim and taunt suggests a broader possibility. Perhaps, using your logic, the [[un)ACA could be funded by GoFundMe as well.

[aj3647]

We have received complaints of incivility in this thread and indeed there is.

Since it all involves veteran members, we are appealing to you to kindly cease all name calling and personal attacks. You are all long familiar with the required rules of civility and such behavior, so please observe them and save us work and save the forum the unpleasantness this causes.

We allow the Non-Detroit forum looser rein. Indeed it was created to keep heated opinions from spilling over to the other forums.

But the incivility appearing here is over the line, unacceptable and must cease.

Would be nice if you also addressed the openly white supremacist and white nationalist rhetoric that gets regularly spewed here, but if you're cool with this place being Storm-Front DYes, then that's ultimately on you.