The Guardian - Not Impressed with District Detroit

[bust]

If I had to guess, I’d say:

1. After Mikes death, the family is fragmented and can’t come to a unanimous decision on moving forward, or

2. They can not secure skilled trades labour to start building.

If I had to guess, I'd say the intent from the very beginning was the following:

Step 1: Promise they'd replace the cass corridor with xanadu to secure the DDA giveaways, public investments, tax abatements, and the necessary permission and forgiveness to demolish away.

Step 2: Build only those things they really wanted: the arena, the parking, the parking, and the parking, their headquarters, and the Woodward Avenue B School memorial to the patriarch [[for sentimental reasons, and to count toward the $200M in related development they needed to gain an extra $74M reimbursement beyond the $250M they initially secured).

Step 3: Wait, delay, prepare excuses, and only if they decide they really want to, build anything else.

In other words, it's all going per plan.

Anyone who expected them to fulfill all those ridiculous PR promises was taken for a fool.

I say this every time: I hope the Ilitches prove me wrong. But several years later, they still haven't.

[bust]

Just wanted to highlight a great resource referenced in the Guardian article. Someone made a map of Detroit properties the Ilitches have demolished and neglected, their surface lots, and parcels of land they acquired from the city for $1:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/vi....05959105&z=14

[O3H]

So I'm not the only one who notices the hype, the glitz,the momentum,
isn't exactly all roses and sweet smells for the Detroit area ?

[cmubryan]

I agree with a lot of this article. The Ilitches have a habit of hanging onto a lot of property without developing much. Of course the stuff they do develop is massive but mostly self-contained and does little to spur additional development. I had a feeling that when they announced “The District” there was a modest chance of it actually coming to full fruition. The thing we’ve seen over and over here is that we can’t expect the development of a whole new artificial district or town at one time or by one developer [[Failed Asian Town, Failed African Town, Failed Chaldean Town,). The vibrant areas slowly occur naturally over time [[Midtown, Campus Martius area, Lower Woodward retail, Corktown, Capitol Park area, Royal Oak, Ferndale).

[southen]

So I'm not the only one who notices the hype, the glitz,the momentum,
isn't exactly all roses and sweet smells for the Detroit area ?

This forum has been extremely critical of the Illitch family for years, but don't let that stop you from morphing this to fit your narrative.

[djtomt]

The thing we’ve seen over and over here is that we can’t expect the development of a whole new artificial district or town [[Failed Asian Town, Failed African Town, Failed Chaldean Town). The vibrant areas slowly occur naturally over time [[Midtown, Campus Martius Area, Royal Oak, Ferndale).

This. You can't manufacture cool, no matter how hard you try.

[Bigdd]

Detroit city ordinance demands that all parking lots must be fenced in wrought-iron fencing.

Somehow the Illiches have never had to comply with this.

So you can always tell an Illich owned lot by the ratty, temporary cyclone fencing.

[Zads07]

I appreciate this article and this thread for showing the truth about Olympia and the Ilitches. They don't care about redevelopment. They don't care about the city. They just care about making money via the arena, stadium, parking lots and pizza.

The argument that it takes time to get the District Detroit up to par and that it wouldn't take one year to get it all done is absolutely true. It will take more than a year. But in that year, what has happened? Ilitch has tried to tear down more buildings, which required a Historic District to be announced just to save buildings. They've done nothing with a number of their historic buildings, minus the Detroit Life Building which is FINALLY after 15?+ years of owning it, is being renovated. But more parking lots have been made than historic buildings boarded up. It's so obvious where their priorities are.

[poobert]

This. You can't manufacture cool, no matter how hard you try.

I really think this is what the Illitches don't understand. They're old school - and I mean that in the worst way. Having had their business come of age in 1958 in a strip mall, I get the impression that is where the mindset got stuck. In those days, urban = bad and decay. In that era were busy trying to implode Corktown and Woodbridge because they were icky and old, to say nothing of predominantly black areas! So I don't think the Illitches can fundamentally understand urban development/redevelopment without a huge demolition a la urban renewal component. I don't think they're bad people, unlike, say, the Marouns. I think they do care about Detroit on some level, but are like the alcoholic father who beats his child "out of love."

And my wife used to work in a firm that worked with Olympia. Believe me, it is the stone age. MadMen, but not in a cool way.

I really wish they'd just run their shitty pizza joint and keep to themselves. And get out of the Tigers for God's sake.

[jackie5275]

Just wanted to highlight a great resource referenced in the Guardian article. Someone made a map of Detroit properties the Ilitches have demolished and neglected, their surface lots, and parcels of land they acquired from the city for $1:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/vi....05959105&z=14

Thanks for posting this map link. It really gives quite a visual. I didn't realize they had property extending west all the way to and along to Trumbull. These were probably purchased back when Tiger Stadium was still up & running.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

This article is, with all respect to the author, in my opinion, stupid.


Was the plan "build everything at once," expressed to anyone at any time? Hint: also no.


This is a perfect example of an author coming up with a theory and seeking out facts to match the theory. There is a passing reference to the rest of the development in the area, which is massive. There is no discussion [[although I'm sure Midtown Detroit would have given them the data on a silver platter, for free no less) about the absorption period for office, retail or apartment space in the area. No discussion about whether bringing 40 buildings to market at one time would be financially wise [[no).

Not one person in the world said "build everything at once" nor would anyone expect to bring "40 buildings to market at one time." But perhaps a wee bit of progress on the Illitch's wasteland of parking lots and abandoned structures?

[dtowncitylover]

1. Were the buildings there actually occupied? Hint: no.

2. Was the plan "build everything at once," expressed to anyone at any time? Hint: also no.

Yeah but if you're acting like some big real estate empire, you'd think they'd be able to handle multiple projects at once especially when they basically implied everything will avalanche into development when the arena is finished. So while building everything at once would be nice but unrealistic for sure, there's not much else going now except plenty of parking lots and an embarrassing unfinished HQ.

[Gistok]

When the announcement about the Columbia St. retail/entertainment came out [[2nd time in 20 years), I thought well it's better than what was there before [[parking). Also they announced "... with Festoon Lighting!".... sounded almost exciting... until I looked up what that involved....

https://www.google.com/search?q=fest...w=1536&bih=723

...lightbulbs strung overhead...

[bust]

So I'm not the only one who notices the hype, the glitz,the momentum,
isn't exactly all roses and sweet smells for the Detroit area ?

Since it seems my posts are among those you reference, I'll re-state the obvious: Detroit would be much rosier, its revitalization much sweeter, were it not for the destruction, neglect, and terrible terribly selfish civic vision of the Ilitches.

[Meddle]

I was kind of hoping Mikey D would scratch these kinds of itches, but he seems to be rolling over and letting them continue.

[CrashDummy]

When the announcement about the Columbia St. retail/entertainment came out [[2nd time in 20 years), I thought well it's better than what was there before [[parking). Also they announced "... with Festoon Lighting!".... sounded almost exciting... until I looked up what that involved....

https://www.google.com/search?q=fest...w=1536&bih=723

...lightbulbs strung overhead...

I expect to see you at Frita Batidos under the festoon lighting celebrating the realization of the 20 year Columbia Street dream...

I think you are correct in that the truth lies somewhere in between, as fun as the broken promises/trail of tears narrative is. I think the issue is with leadership. Not necessarily at the top with the Ilitch family, but specifically with Olympia Development.

People compare the Ilitch's with Dan Gilbert with respect to development, but I think a lot of the credit should go to the leadership at Bedrock. Though Dan surely provides inspiration and direction, Dan Mullen, Jim Ketai and others have done an excellent job in leadership roles. I don't think they would have the same success without them.

What Olympia seems to struggle with are stand alone projects that aren't directed by an outside entity. They built LCA, but that vision was largely set by the Red Wings and Tom Wilson. The College of Business was built for WSU. Little Caesars, though own by the Ilitch companies, had its own needs and agenda in building their headquarters. Everything else seems to have fallen apart. American Community Developers, which was going to be responsible for the Eddystone, Alhambra, and American developments is gone, leaving those in basically RFP stage again. The UA building is still in "pre-construction planning" and the developer supposedly had issues with financing. The two new construction buildings on Henry St, now to be office space, are probably the most puzzling as to why there is no work being done. It looks like Olympia is now going to develop those themselves now that ACD is gone, but who knows.

They did recently hire Keith Bradford from Disney to lead Olympia Development. Don't know much about this guy, other than he seems to be well liked. Hopefully, he can turn things around, because it sure seems Olympia caught themselves with their pants down on these projects. Totally unprepared.

The good news is that the Ilitch's do have a fairly good track record at hiring themselves into success, as with the aforementioned Tom Wilson. Both the Red Wings and Tigers were a mess before they were able to find experienced, competant leadership. And Little Caesar's was on a downward dive in the 90's and early 2000's. It seems that they were able to right that ship as well.

[NSortzi]

CrashDummy, just so we’re on the same page, WSU’s Mike Ilitch School of Business has nothing to do with Olympia or District Detroit. The Ilitches donated the money allowing its construction. Other than that, they had nothing to do with it.

[ABetterDetroit]

CrashDummy, just so we’re on the same page, WSU’s Mike Ilitch School of Business has nothing to do with Olympia or District Detroit. The Ilitches donated the money allowing its construction. Other than that, they had nothing to do with it.

They did dictate the location. I wonder if Steven Ross had said his new Ross School of Business had to go right next door to the Big House or nothing how that would have gone over?

WSU would've had a greater benefit from a new building on campus in my opinion. Considering the current progress on the ‘District Detroit’, I don’t give much credence to the Ilitch’s opinions over anyone else’s on what should go where. It now seems the choice was simply a new school building with Mike’s name on it or more surface parking next to the arena. Given that, I guess it ended up working out the best way it could have.

[CrashDummy]

CrashDummy, just so we’re on the same page, WSU’s Mike Ilitch School of Business has nothing to do with Olympia or District Detroit. The Ilitches donated the money allowing its construction. Other than that, they had nothing to do with it.

Olympia was the developer. But WSU was the driving force behind the design and requirements, which is kind of my point.

[archfan]

They did dictate the location. I wonder if Steven Ross had said his new Ross School of Business had to go right next door to the Big House or nothing how that would have gone over?

For a $100+ million donation, he could have built it anywhere he wanted except in the Big House.

[Bham1982]

WSU would've had a greater benefit from a new building on campus in my opinion.

The new MBA building is basically the dumbest project. I have a family member getting an Wayne MBA and the student body is upset about the project.

Why in the hell wasn't the school built on campus? The student body is like 95% suburban 20-30-40-somethings, many with children and almost all with full time jobs far away, and most classes are at night so putting it downtown is adding significant commute time.

But it's actually worse, because students won't be allowed to park there at subsidized rates [[like on campus), but will be forced to take a shuttle from campus. In reality, most students will have to pony up at Illitch's parkings moats. And it will be a disaster when there's a LCA event concurrent with a class.

Then to top it all off, Wayne was forced to close and sell its Farmington Hills MBA center because of cost overruns downtown. So now there's no way to escape the new hell commute if your class isn't offered online [[and many aren't).

Wayne will lose MBA students, no question. There are so many online MBAs these days, from schools with comparable quality. They've made an already difficult 40 minute commute a 90 minute commute, essentially impossible with kids and full time job.

[poobert]

The new MBA building is basically the dumbest project. I have a family member getting an Wayne MBA and the student body is upset about the project.

Why in the hell wasn't the school built on campus? The student body is like 95% suburban 20-30-40-somethings, many with children and almost all with full time jobs far away, and most classes are at night so putting it downtown is adding significant commute time.

But it's actually worse, because students won't be allowed to park there at subsidized rates [[like on campus), but will be forced to take a shuttle from campus. In reality, most students will have to pony up at Illitch's parkings moats. And it will be a disaster when there's a LCA event concurrent with a class.

Then to top it all off, Wayne was forced to close and sell its Farmington Hills MBA center because of cost overruns downtown. So now there's no way to escape the new hell commute if your class isn't offered online [[and many aren't).

Wayne will lose MBA students, no question. There are so many online MBAs these days, from schools with comparable quality. They've made an already difficult 40 minute commute a 90 minute commute, essentially impossible with kids and full time job.

Sad to hear my alma mater collaborated with and/or fell victim to the Krazy bread klan.

Shortly after I graduated they tore down the block at Warren and Woodward for unknown reasons. Since then it has been utilized as an empty lot with 2 benches in it. Why didn't they put the Illitch School of Cardboard Pizza hawking there?

WSU served me very well. Was able to pay off the loans, got a very good education, have always been gainfully employed, and inspired a lifelong love of Detroit. They're not Princeton but very underrated. They've been an anchor for that area, though not perfect, and I am sorry to hear their students will now pay the price for the development.

[Towne Cluber]

The new MBA building is basically the dumbest project. I have a family member getting an Wayne MBA and the student body is upset about the project.

Why in the hell wasn't the school built on campus? The student body is like 95% suburban 20-30-40-somethings, many with children and almost all with full time jobs far away, and most classes are at night so putting it downtown is adding significant commute time.

But it's actually worse, because students won't be allowed to park there at subsidized rates [[like on campus), but will be forced to take a shuttle from campus. In reality, most students will have to pony up at Illitch's parkings moats. And it will be a disaster when there's a LCA event concurrent with a class.

Then to top it all off, Wayne was forced to close and sell its Farmington Hills MBA center because of cost overruns downtown. So now there's no way to escape the new hell commute if your class isn't offered online [[and many aren't).

Wayne will lose MBA students, no question. There are so many online MBAs these days, from schools with comparable quality. They've made an already difficult 40 minute commute a 90 minute commute, essentially impossible with kids and full time job.

The new building is for the entire business school, not just the MBA program. Your claims about "the student body is upset about the project, many with children, almost all with full time jobs, and most classes at night" are pure exaggerations as usual.

How does a one mile difference between the main campus and the b-school "add a significant commute time" and make "a 40 minute commute into a 90 minute commute"?

Also, there is nothing out there backing up your claim about cost overruns. WSU says their Farmington Hills center closed because of partnerships with Schoolcraft and OCC.

Furthermore, Detroiters make up 11% of Wayne State's Michigan enrollment.

[Bham1982]

Shortly after I graduated they tore down the block at Warren and Woodward for unknown reasons. Since then it has been utilized as an empty lot with 2 benches in it. Why didn't they put the Illitch School of Cardboard Pizza hawking there?

That would have been a perfect location for the new B School. It would have satisfied urbanists and suburbanites, and current students would obviously be fine with same location but new facility.

The only way the new facility isn't a net negative is if you work right downtown. For everyone else [[and keep in mind the MBA program is dominated by people in logistics, working for suppliers, etc.; aka sprawl-jobs), your degree just got more expensive and difficult.

[Bham1982]

The new building is for the entire business school, not just the MBA program. Your claims about "the student body is upset about the project, many with children, almost all with full time jobs, and most classes at night" are pure exaggerations as usual.

How does a one mile difference between the main campus and the b-school "add a significant commute time" and make "a 40 minute commute into a 90 minute commute"?

Also, there is nothing out there backing up your claim about cost overruns. WSU says their Farmington Hills center closed because of partnerships with Schoolcraft and OCC.

Furthermore, Detroiters make up 11% of Wayne State's Michigan enrollment.

This is all pretty much off-topic nonsense and lack of reading comprehension. Not gonna bother with point-by-point refutation of garbage.

Do you work for the Illitches or something? You seem to have a cult-like veneration of anything related to the Illitches.