DDOT / SMART look to streamline fare aystem

[stasu1213]

I will be gladly when t city of Detroit could do something about the bottleneckung of busses occuring at Michigan and Cass, the south side of rhe street in front of People Mover, The Buhl building, and on the side City County Building in Larned. The cluttered of busses is also dangerous. Is there a street that all the busses could pick up passengers and have more room to line up

[dtowncitylover]

^^ I could also hop in my car at whatever times I wanted to beat traffic and run down to the US Courthouse for my day. Sometimes I was there not long after 6AM. Other times it was later.

Then if I wanted to take off after work and go to Fairlane or wherever else, I could without having to wait for a bus to go home, then get my car and go shopping. Or if I wanted to take off early for some reason, I could do that without having to wait for a bus.

Yes, and when you live in a real city you can mostly do all of this by walking or taking public transit.

[professorscott]

Yes, and when you live in a real city you can mostly do all of this by walking or taking public transit.

Yes, it's very lovely that all of these people [[1) have a car, [[2) have a license, [[3) are physically able to drive and so forth, and can get by wonderfully without any other means. Hoback and I studied, years ago, that people whose trips include public transit are healthier; we didn't drag out the "why" of it [[unlike these correpondents, we are driven by data and not anecdotes) but it occurred to use one hugely likely reason is that people who take buses and trains, by the very nature of their trips, end up walking a good bit more than people who are able to, and choose to, drive their cars all over the place.

It is wonderful that DDOT and SMART have both made significant service improvements and that they are working toward an easier-to-use joint-fare system. As for the others, illegitimatus non carborundum [[faux Latin for "don't let the bastards grind you down").

[Meddle]

Hoback and I studied, years ago, that people whose trips include public transit are healthier; we didn't drag out the "why" of it [[unlike these correpondents, we are driven by data and not anecdotes) but it occurred to use one hugely likely reason is that people who take buses and trains, by the very nature of their trips, end up walking a good bit more ...

I walk plenty now. I walked plenty then, in part by parking away from the doors at mall and stores, then walking through the mall/store and back, as well as walk mowing my lawn weekly. Something downtown dwellers know nothing of --- grass ... green stuff that usually smells good.

And I wasn't sitting in an enclosed tube with dozens of people who had who knows what in the way of illnesses.

[Towne Cluber]

Yes, it's very lovely that all of these people [[1) have a car, [[2) have a license, [[3) are physically able to drive and so forth, and can get by wonderfully without any other means. Hoback and I studied, years ago, that people whose trips include public transit are healthier; we didn't drag out the "why" of it [[unlike these correpondents, we are driven by data and not anecdotes) but it occurred to use one hugely likely reason is that people who take buses and trains, by the very nature of their trips, end up walking a good bit more than people who are able to, and choose to, drive their cars all over the place.

When was this study and was it local or national?

[professorscott]

When was this study and was it local or national?

I was afraid someone would ask me to remember such details

The study was quite a few years ago, maybe 2005 or 2006. We focused on the city of Detroit specifically, and how far someone walks when they ride the buses. I seem to recall we did have access to some national-level data, but mostly it was a study of the local phenomenon.

[professorscott]

I walk plenty now. I walked plenty then, in part by parking away from the doors at mall and stores, then walking through the mall/store and back... And I wasn't sitting in an enclosed tube with dozens of people who had who knows what in the way of illnesses.

You understand that the corridor of a mall is an enclosed tube with hundreds of people who have who knows what in the way of illnesses, right?

Also, I applaud your parking behavior, but yours is not typical. I can't count how many times I've seen people driving around shopping center lots in circles so that they can find the closest possible parking spot, many choosing to park illegally. This is especially ironic when they are going to the gym to work out. Meanwhile, those of us like Jjaba [[back in the day) and myself, the Dexter bus drops us off wherever it happens to drop us off, and from there we walk to wherever we're trying to get to, and it comes pretty frequently and is very convenient, and I do not recall one time, in all those decades, contracting an illness that was likely attributable to a fellow passenger.

[Hamtragedy]

I used to get wasted and drive. Especially the backroads thru Milwaukee junction. Thank god we have uber now. It would have been nice years ago to not have to do that, but a bus from the cass corridor to hamtramck didn't exist, and would take well over two hours. Hell it was faster to walk. But drinkin and drivin was so much fun.

Then there were the days taking the Grand River bus to the Greenfield to the Dexter to get to high school. An hour and fifteen minutes to go six friggin miles. I would have taken a car but I was only 14 and 15. But man when I got my licensce.....

Why didn't I walk or ride my bike in either case, one might ask? Usually there were jacked up neighborhoods between here and there. Oh, I rode my bike a couple thousand miles growing up [[I had a speedometer to track it), and was told more than a few times to "check it in." I could out-peddle thugs and packs of wild dogs, with 60 lbs of newspapers. And I walked an average of a thousand miles a year to the bus, to school and on the paper route. 6'2" and 135 lbs wet. Biggest frustration of all? The damn freight.

It wasn't till I went to real functioning cities that had mass transit where I no longer had to drink and drive, walk thru shitty neighborhoods, but I could buy and single ticket and ride a bus that took me to a subway with all likes of people, black, white, latino, old, young, girls [[chicks on the bus whuuut?), and got to the other side of town way faster than driving thru 2 thousand stop signs. Plus, transit is the great equalizer: when it rains everybody looks like a wet dog.

But now I'm more mature and drive my car to get groceries 8 blocks away, or to a friends house less than a mile away, or to a bar three miles away. I pay 3K/yr insurance with a clean record for a ten year old vehicle that lets me sit in traffic and huff fumes, while I watch the empty freight go by, wondering why those 4 pathetic bastards aren't sitting in traffic like me.

[Honky Tonk]

Also, I applaud your parking behavior, but yours is not typical. I can't count how many times I've seen people driving around shopping center lots in circles so that they can find the closest possible parking spot, many choosing to park illegally.

[[unlike these correpondents, we are driven by data and not anecdotes)

Sounds like one of those anecdotal posts you were reffering to earlier, Scott.

[Jason]

I don't think this needs it's own thread so I'll just post it here, but DDOT has also come out with a new logo, and a new design for the buses. This is in conjunction with "Connect Ten", where the main 10 routes will have improved service and amenities, and new route numbers.

https://twitter.com/RideDDOT/status/1034470778841063424

[professorscott]

[[unlike these correpondents, we are driven by data and not anecdotes)

Sounds like one of those anecdotal posts you were reffering to earlier, Scott.

Touche.

I haven't studied parking lot behavior, but I've been around enough parking lots over time to form a reasonable hypothesis, which is that nearly everybody tries to find the closest possible spot to their entry point to a building in such a situation, and that a good many people are willing to do a bit of extra driving for the purpose. If you want to see this in action, given the time of year, watch the students driving around the parking lot of your local college or university in the first couple weeks of classes.

If somebody wants to do a study, I'll be happy to assist :0

[dtowncitylover]

I don't think this needs it's own thread so I'll just post it here, but DDOT has also come out with a new logo, and a new design for the buses. This is in conjunction with "Connect Ten", where the main 10 routes will have improved service and amenities, and new route numbers.

https://twitter.com/RideDDOT/status/1034470778841063424

How DARE DDOT try to improve it image by updating its fare structure, a new look for buses, a new logo, and a better numbering system for its top 10 routes. It's as if it's trying to improve public transit and I for one am appalled.

[Honky Tonk]

Touche.

I haven't studied parking lot behavior, but I've been around enough parking lots over time to form a reasonable hypothesis, which is that nearly everybody tries to find the closest possible spot to their entry point to a building in such a situation, and that a good many people are willing to do a bit of extra driving for the purpose. If you want to see this in action, given the time of year, watch the students driving around the parking lot of your local college or university in the first couple weeks of classes.

If somebody wants to do a study, I'll be happy to assist :0

I think I'll pass on hanging around parking lots and counting cruisers. I've seen all that before and you're right, of course. I wanted to make my point about observations. Good luck with the grandiose scheme of mass transit. I think it's being approached all wrong and is unsustainable.

[Bigdd]

No, I don't really care to. I don't really care for my commute and the time I've wasted alone because of my unique commute.

It all comes down to time lost. It's the one thing we don't get more of, and can't get back.

What's your time worth? If you're daily commute by bus is 3 hours [[instead of one hour by car),.. then that's 260 days x 2 hours,... or 520 hours wasted a year.

If your time is worth $20 an hour,.. the wasted time costs you $10,400 a year. If it's $60 an hour,.. it's $31k a year lost.

And why car payments? For decades I drove $3,000 used Volvos and such. Just save a few bucks and buy a car outright. Then you can really be productive.

[archfan]

I was afraid someone would ask me to remember such details

The study was quite a few years ago, maybe 2005 or 2006. We focused on the city of Detroit specifically, and how far someone walks when they ride the buses. I seem to recall we did have access to some national-level data, but mostly it was a study of the local phenomenon.

Was it "True Walking Distance To Transit"?

[Danny]

Good for them. Taking several busses crosstown and back from work or other errands, cost a lot. Just regionalize SMART and D-DOT and smooth sailing and rapid.

[professorscott]

Was it "True Walking Distance To Transit"?

Yep, thanks for finding that.

[masterblaster]

What DDOT, SMART, FAST, and NOT-SO-FAST need to do is adjust their rates accordingly, let say $10-$12 dollars a trip for riders, to match today's inflation. This would eliminate the tax burden placed auto owners, property owners, and other tax payers, then take the money now used to subsidize these money losing propositions, and use it to maintain roads and other necessary infrastructure. There's no such thing as a free ride.

Should this rationale be applied to libraries. Do libraries pay for themselves? Do Parks pay for themselves? Should we charge $10 admission for every time we go to Rouge Park or Palmer Park or Belle Isle so that people pay the full cost of operation and maintenance? Should this rationale be applied to public schools? Do public schools pay for themselves?

So, you don't live in Detroit, but I, who happen to have lived in Detroit for 57 years, and cover just about every section of the City @ least twice a week, am anacedotal, because you think I "saw a bus last week with 3 people on it"? Yet I'm supposed to buy into your public transportation emotionally charged logic, and cough up more tax money because you don't want to be alone? Try car pooling, call Uber or Lyft, see what they charge. This way I can have my car and don't have to susidize your transportation, and you can have a direct ride to and from wherever it is you're going. Don't be a burden on others. Learn to take care of yourself.

Maybe people shouldn't subsidize other peoples' education as well. If you want your child to have an education, pay the full out-of-pocket costs of a private school education.

I was in Westland early this morning and I took the SMART Bus 255 Ford Road express to downtown. It was packed. Last week, I took a Warren Ave [[Crosstown Bus) at 6 am in the morning. 10 minutes into my trip, the bus was packed. These are working class people trying to get to work. To make these people pay $10-12 for bus fare or to try to make them figure out how to car pool using an UBER when they are going to different places of work at different locations, is objectionable.

There are some people who believe public transit is an essential service to be provided by a city, like police, trash collection, parks, etc. And there are some who don't think it should be service to be provided. I guess you fall in the latter category. It seems like living out in the country, where your neighbors would be the likes of Meddle, is something you should seriously consider.

[Honky Tonk]

It seems like living out in the country, where your neighbors would be the likes of Meddle, is something you should seriously consider.

It seems like moving back home where your Mom can drive you wherever you want to go, for free, is something you should consider.

[dtowncitylover]

It seems like moving back home where your Mom can drive you wherever you want to go, for free, is something you should consider.

Oh snap. You really got 'em there.

[Meddle]

It seems like living out in the country, where your neighbors would be the likes of Meddle, is something you should seriously consider.

Hey, I like it out here. Can you look out your back door and see a Doe nursing a Fawn? Or watch Bald Eagles fly from nearby trees?

The only diesel smoke I experience is from tractors working the fields.

[msamslex]

I don't think this needs it's own thread so I'll just post it here, but DDOT has also come out with a new logo, and a new design for the buses. This is in conjunction with "Connect Ten", where the main 10 routes will have improved service and amenities, and new route numbers.

https://twitter.com/RideDDOT/status/1034470778841063424

We were coming north on Greenfield right before Ford Rd. in Dearborn this evening. It was a little after 7:00 & guess what we saw? One of the new green buses. Daughter said it reminded her of a Doublemint gum package. I said that’s probably what somebody has already called it, the Doublemint bus. If nobody has, we said it here first! ��